Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[bminorkey]

Well, 500K is a decent amount for just one location. And all of that can be directed towards level design, some new graphics and quests/dialog. It's probably not too far off from what was spent on Athkatla in BG2.

It's about time as much as it is about money. And honestly, as far as cost goes, I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are. Not that either of us (or anyone, Obsidian included) have any idea what it would cost.

The dungeon's another matter. Then again, it seems likely that they'll reuse a lot of stuff for every level and spread the non-combat content out a lot.

The problem is that they need to spread out the content in an interesting and logical way, not just have two big cities and a 15 floor dungeon. But I don't see them doing much more with a <4M budget (people are forgetting Kickstarter and Paypal get a thick percentage of that) and an 18 month development cycle. If anything, the rest of the stretch goal promises are going to bite off what's left. For comparison, I think BGII's budget was 5M and it had a 20 month cycle.

 

[Infinitron]

It was likely CD Projekt.

Unsurprising given the number of shitty publishers Obsidian has been in bed with in the past. Probably Bethesderp.

You're both wrong.

Hmm... http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61853-interplay-kickstarter-it-isa-mystery/

 

[Jaesun]

Yeah. Maybe it was Herve who asked them to do it. Only he would be that fucking stupid. But no new info. Still speculation.

 

[Grunker]

Infinitron

I thought you said getting an add-on was just upping your pledge and then you'd get a mail? When is this mail supposed to come again?

 

[Tigranes]

Grunker No timeframe yet. Obsidian will send out email 'survey's to everyone letting us pick how to distribute that excess $.

 

[Raapys]

It's about time as much as it is about money. And honestly, as far as cost goes, I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are. Not that either of us (or anyone, Obsidian included) have any idea what it would cost.
The problem is that they need to spread out the content in an interesting and logical way, not just have two big cities and a 15 floor dungeon. But I don't see them doing much more with a <4M budget (people are forgetting Kickstarter and Paypal get a thick percentage of that) and an 18 month development cycle. If anything, the rest of the stretch goal promises are going to bite off what's left. For comparison, I think BGII's budget was 5M and it had a 20 month cycle.

Maybe you have too high expectations? The initially asked for funding( 1.1mill) tells us what kind of game it'll be, what kind of scale and amount of content they were thinking, and that's unlikely to change despite them almost quadrupling that amount(since that part mostly just goes towards stretch goals). As such, I think I'll be happily surprised if they manage half the content BG2 has( in terms of quests, spells, items, playtime, etc.).

 

[Jarpie]

Grunker No timeframe yet. Obsidian will send out email 'survey's to everyone letting us pick how to distribute that excess $.

Why mods doesn't just chime in on these topics with "Obsidian has a great trackrecord with well-written and non-overly-sexualized female characters" and just close them as a cancer for discussion forums.

 

[Hegel]

It's about time as much as it is about money. And honestly, as far as cost goes, I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are. Not that either of us (or anyone, Obsidian included) have any idea what it would cost.
The problem is that they need to spread out the content in an interesting and logical way, not just have two big cities and a 15 floor dungeon. But I don't see them doing much more with a <4M budget (people are forgetting Kickstarter and Paypal get a thick percentage of that) and an 18 month development cycle. If anything, the rest of the stretch goal promises are going to bite off what's left. For comparison, I think BGII's budget was 5M and it had a 20 month cycle.

Maybe you have too high expectations? The initially asked for funding( 1.1mill) tells us what kind of game it'll be, what kind of scale and amount of content they were thinking, and that's unlikely to change despite them almost quadrupling that amount(since that part mostly just goes towards stretch goals). As such, I think I'll be happily surprised if they manage half the content BG2 has( in terms of quests, spells, items, playtime, etc.).

The Witcher 2 costed 6 million USD engine included.

 

[Captain Shrek]

It's about time as much as it is about money. And honestly, as far as cost goes, I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are. Not that either of us (or anyone, Obsidian included) have any idea what it would cost.
The problem is that they need to spread out the content in an interesting and logical way, not just have two big cities and a 15 floor dungeon. But I don't see them doing much more with a <4M budget (people are forgetting Kickstarter and Paypal get a thick percentage of that) and an 18 month development cycle. If anything, the rest of the stretch goal promises are going to bite off what's left. For comparison, I think BGII's budget was 5M and it had a 20 month cycle.

Maybe you have too high expectations? The initially asked for funding( 1.1mill) tells us what kind of game it'll be, what kind of scale and amount of content they were thinking, and that's unlikely to change despite them almost quadrupling that amount(since that part mostly just goes towards stretch goals). As such, I think I'll be happily surprised if they manage half the content BG2 has( in terms of quests, spells, items, playtime, etc.).

The Witcher 2 costed 6 million USD engine included.

Which is low since their engine is much better than Unity which is basically an iPad oriented engine.

 

[FeelTheRads]

The Witcher 2 costed 6 million USD engine included.

And? How's that supposed to be relevant to anything? First, potatoes work for potatoes. Second, if PE will limit itself to the scope of The Witcher, then it will be a fucking failure.

 

[Hegel]

Yes, TWitcher2 was extremely low budget, also did Sapkowski's editor get royalties? On the other hand Obsidian doesn't have to waste money or time with engine creation or ruleset creation hence the reason why 3.5 million would suffice for a decent game (also I assume they have most of the lore already put down and would recycle ideas they had over the years).
Unity is a great engine for isometric games, it can be modded to look extremely good.
Here, this is the work of a single person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ILFgiYaRU

 

[Captain Shrek]

Yes, TWitcher2 was extremely low budget, also did Sapkowski's editor get royalties? On the other hand Obsidian doesn't have to waste money or time with engine creation or ruleset creation hence the reason why 3.5 million would suffice for a decent game (also I assume they have most of the lore already put down and would recycle ideas they had over the years).
Unity is a great engine for isometric games, it can be modded to look extremely good.
Here, this is the work of a single person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ILFgiYaRU

1) Why is the video dipped in green paint?

2) Although you are right that Unity can be used to make good isometric games, the fact is even Gamebryo can be used to do so. The problem is artwork and design and not really the engine. I know, I know fallout 3 and how gamebryo is broken shit for FPS games, but it has been used for other games like Civ4, Pirates!, Divinity 2, Bloodbowl etc. some of which are games the codexers likes however hypocritical they are otherwise.

 

[Raapys]

Thing is, BG2 had a larger budget( especially considering inflation) and they needed to create even less new stuff; they could reuse the engine, spells, classes, sound, some graphics, most of the ruleset, all the game logic, the UI, lore, items, setting, etc. With a few exceptions, all of it went towards actual game content. PE might have a game/graphics engine( that will need lots of tweaking), but they need to create pretty much everything else from scratch. Thus my thinking that expecting something on the scale of BG2 is highly unrealistic. But maybe for a sequel on a similar or higher budget.

 

[Kraszu]

It's about time as much as it is about money. And honestly, as far as cost goes, I'm not nearly as optimistic as you are. Not that either of us (or anyone, Obsidian included) have any idea what it would cost.
The problem is that they need to spread out the content in an interesting and logical way, not just have two big cities and a 15 floor dungeon. But I don't see them doing much more with a <4M budget (people are forgetting Kickstarter and Paypal get a thick percentage of that) and an 18 month development cycle. If anything, the rest of the stretch goal promises are going to bite off what's left. For comparison, I think BGII's budget was 5M and it had a 20 month cycle.

Maybe you have too high expectations? The initially asked for funding( 1.1mill) tells us what kind of game it'll be, what kind of scale and amount of content they were thinking, and that's unlikely to change despite them almost quadrupling that amount(since that part mostly just goes towards stretch goals). As such, I think I'll be happily surprised if they manage half the content BG2 has( in terms of quests, spells, items, playtime, etc.).

Almost 100% of game cost are salaries so the amount doesn't tell us much, they could be willing to get lower wages for ~2 years to get more royalties, and own they IP later.

The money above 1.1mln will not go mostly towards stretch goals. They need stretch goals to get more funding, but that money goes to the overall budget. It isn't that having 40k facebook likes allows them to make a dungeon level.

 

[almondblight]

Here, this is the work of a single person.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61ILFgiYaRU

Isn't Stasis using Visionaire?

 

[Hegel]

Dunno, I was told by a fellow codexer that it used Unity.

 

[DalekFlay]

I think you are overestimating the sales post release. I am not saying it won't happen, but you need to understand the niche-ness of the genre.

A few hundred thousand is totally reasonable to expect considering sales we have seen of other niche products on steam and such. It might take a year and some sales to get there, but as said it's all profit for Obsidian anyway.

 

[Dexter]

I think you are overestimating the sales post release. I am not saying it won't happen, but you need to understand the niche-ness of the genre.

A few hundred thousand is totally reasonable to expect considering sales we have seen of other niche products on steam and such. It might take a year and some sales to get there, but as said it's all profit for Obsidian anyway.

Based on current popularity and amount of people hard for such a game, also some of the "Indie games" that reached 1 Million+ with Steam sales alone I'd say it'll sell at least a million.
http://gamepolitics.com/2012/01/03/one-million-copies-super-meat-boy-sold
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/11/terraria-coming-to-xbla-psn-early-2013-1-6-million-sold-on-pc/
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-01-03-bastion-sells-over-half-a-million-copies

Of course it depends on how well it is done, if the game turns out to be shit it likely won't. xD

Baldur's Gate/Baldur's Gate 2 alone sold 2 Million each up to 2005 and the "entire franchise" sold over 5 so it can't be said it was unpopular:

• The Baldur's Gate series: Baldur's Gate I, Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast, Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, and Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal have sold approximately 5 million units world-wide
• Baldur's Gate, released in 1998, has sold over 2 million units for PC and has won many industry awards; in 1999, BioWare released Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast, a Baldur's Gate expansion pack. It debuted at #1 worldwide and sold over 600,000 units
• Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, was released in Sept. 2000 and continued the award winning story line of the Baldur's Gate series, selling over 2 million units so far; in June 2001 Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal was released, the expansion pack to the award winning Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn, and the conclusion to the Baldur's Gate series, selling more than 500,000 units

The Witcher 2 costed 6 million USD engine included.

== TW2 production costs:
PC: 7,43 mln USD
XB and PC EE: 2,44 mln USD

Total: 9,88 mln USD [i.e. 33,1 mln PLN (Polish zloty)]

 

[DwarvenFood]

 

[Scruffy]

(people are forgetting Kickstarter and Paypal get a thick percentage of that)

Right, what percentages are we talking about?

 

[Jarpie]

I actually made calculations for Obsidian Forums about the fees:

Kickstarter:
3 986 929 * 0,10 = 396 692.90
3 986 929.00 - 396 692.90 = 3 588 236.10

Paypal:
176 279 * 0.029 = 5112.09 so 176 279.00 - 5112.09 = 171 166.61
3 681 Paypal backers so 0.30 * 3681 = 1104.30 thus 171 166.61 - 1104.30 = 170 062.31

So we get now can calculate both together:
3 588 236.10 + 170 062.31 = 3 758 298.41

Kickstarter takes 5%, amazon takes 3-5% but Kickstarter for this size you can bet they take 5% and paypal takes 2,9% + 0,30 dollars per transaction.

Edit: removed THE HORRIBLE and EVIL commas from the numbers which scared off bminorkey.

 

[Arkeus]

Thing is, BG2 had a larger budget( especially considering inflation) and they needed to create even less new stuff; they could reuse the engine, spells, classes, sound, some graphics, most of the ruleset, all the game logic, the UI, lore, items, setting, etc. With a few exceptions, all of it went towards actual game content. PE might have a game/graphics engine( that will need lots of tweaking), but they need to create pretty much everything else from scratch. Thus my thinking that expecting something on the scale of BG2 is highly unrealistic. But maybe for a sequel on a similar or higher budget.

That's really untrue. BG and BG2 mechanics are REALLY differents. Half the low-level spells had been changed, and the higher-levels ones flat out didn't exist. Not only that, but most other classes were different, too.
As for the 'content', keep in mind that a game with a publisher also means lots of slowing down and changing stuff on the publisher's whim.

Also, BG2 was made when those people were much, much less experienced (just see the differences between the companions in BG and BG2, and how many of those were in BG2). Honestly, i expect this game to be almost as big as BG2+ToB. Especially if we include the later expansion.

(people are forgetting Kickstarter and Paypal get a thick percentage of that)

Right, what percentages are we talking about?

Around 10%

 

[Scruffy]

Sounds like a lot.

 

[Jarpie]

The final budget is probably close to 3,6 million due failed pledges which has happened to all Kickstarters, or about 3 million if they pay the rewards from the Kickstarter pledges but I doubt that, goes with the "General marketing budget" which is the general Obsidian's budget.

 

[bminorkey]

I think Kickstarter takes 10-15% depending on Amazon overhead costs. Oh and there's also the physical manufacturing (not sure if you pay for shipment) of all the rewards, not sure how expensive that's gonna end up.

Also I don't think the initial 1.1m$ was enough to make even a highly edited version of the game.

BTW what some people are missing about my comment is that I wasn't just talking about the budget: another big city and a 15 floor dungeon are a big deal. They're going to have to revamp their entire plans for the setting to account for the undertaking, maybe even have it revolve around that. It's nice to want "more" "big stuff" but people really need to consider how something is going to affect the coherency of the design before creating a hype-train on the forums.