Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[tuluse]

I think you are overestimating the sales post release. I am not saying it won't happen, but you need to understand the niche-ness of the genre.

I seriously doubt that kickstarter contributors are even 1/4 of people would buy this game if it was for sale right now. There are plenty of people who are wary of kickstarter, who won't buy a game until it's out, who never even heard of the kickstarter, etc.

The future is rather bleak anyway. In another twenty years, many of these industry veterans will be retired, and most others will have permanently moved on to different careers. They're an aging bunch, and developing computer games is a very demanding profession. By 2030, the era of old-school cRPGs will have drawn to a permanent close. I suspect much of the player base will have moved on along with the developers.

In my opinion, 2011-2020 will be the last hurrah for developers like them and for players like us. We've got this round of projects (Wasteland 2, PE, Star Citizen, etc.) to look forward to, then perhaps another round or two to come, and after that our little hobby will seem as old-fashioned and outdated to the gaming industry as crooners seem to Generation X.

I wish it could last forever. When games like IWD, Torment, Fallout, Wizardry, adventure games, space sims (remember Radio Shacks filled with computer joysticks?) and so on were still big sellers, I was in Heaven and I thought I'd be playing games like that for decades to come. But we lost almost a whole decade.

Is there any particular reason that people will not want to make games like cRPGs in the future? For the ~10 years, the reason was that you couldn't make money doing it. If we can make sure there is a profitable market where developers can sell their wares, I'm sure there are younger developers right now who would like to make games like Fallout, Arcanum, etc

 

[tuluse]

Stupid poll, but the results might be interesting from an anthropological perspective: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61810-gameplay-or-story/

I voted story

I'd rather play PS:T than KotC.

 

[Lyric Suite]

In PS:T, the "story" was the gameplay. Choices and consequences, plus stats thrown into the mix. Fucking Codexers don't even know what they should know.

 

[Moribund]

Only people who've made a great game can make another one? Where did those original good games come from?

With most entertainment someone makes just one really good thing and then the rest of their career is decline, and so far games don't seem to be a big exception.

 

[tuluse]

In PS:T, the "story" was the gameplay. Choices and consequences, plus stats thrown into the mix. Fucking Codexers don't even know what they should know.

CYOA gameplay pretty much sucks even if there is stat checks.

I like PS:T because the writing is good not because it has stat checks.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The emphasis was on the choice and consequences part, douche.

 

[tuluse]

The emphasis was on the choice and consequences part, douche.

I still wouldn't care without the good story. Therefore story is what I want.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Then go read a book trololo

 

[HanoverF]

Gonna try to argue probably one last time with that biodrone in romance thread but arguing with them is like this:

Graham Chapman clearly works in the Codex department.

 

[LivingOne]

That qloher fucktard is trying again to argue in the romance thread.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61...romance-thread-pt2/page__st__360#entry1257410

Now he's pretending there are arguments in favor of dumping random features in a game.

He's alone though so he should fuck off easily.

 

[hoverdog]

LivingOne, welcome home brutha

 

[LivingOne]

 

[Jarpie]

I plan to drown qloher on Wall-of-Whoop Ass Text, let's see how long he can keep up with me.

 

[Mrowak]

In PS:T, the "story" was the gameplay. Choices and consequences, plus stats thrown into the mix. Fucking Codexers don't even know what they should know.

Indeed the gameplay was centered around the story, but without the key interactive elements (dialogues, quests and all the mechanics around them), their composition and various levels of interplay between them PS:T would be a very drab experience. In other words excellently exactured gameplay that made PS:T an iconinc title. In fact, I would argue that without player's interaction the story os PS:T is pretty weak (you can read the novel for comparison).

For that reason to my mind weak combat - if any combat apeears in a game - only drags it down by undermining the facet a storyfaggy focuses on - telling a tale. If this is focus of the game, and there is combat in it it ought to be:

1) fun,
2) integrated into the story,
3) a storytelling mechanic in itself.

The third point means that combat gameplay mode should strive to tell a story in an interactive fashion as well - everything that happens in it, how the player plays, what objectives he choses to favour, ought to be reflected in the story and the other way round.

It is ironic that to this day a little bit more obscure jRPGs put RPGs into shame in this facet.

 

[LivingOne]

I plan to drown qloher on Wall-of-Whoop Ass Text, let's see how long he can keep up with me.

The funny thing is I'm constantly refreshing the page over there and he's still just 'viewing' rather than 'posting' by quite a while now.He must be contemplating the screen in despair.

Once we're done with him tho' it's better to let that thread drown straight to page 2 of the subfora.

Edit:he's offline now.

 

[Esquilax]

I plan to drown qloher on Wall-of-Whoop Ass Text, let's see how long he can keep up with me.

Lame. Who cares about this shit?

Romancefags gonna romancefag. Thankfully, Avellone and Sawyer are not going to cave into the demands of BioWare foreveraloners, so the conversation is moot. Still, it's hilarious how a few of them think "Oh, well there still might be romances! Don't lose hope guise!"

 

[SwiftCrack]

BTW

RPGs with great gameplay (cRPGs and a jRPG):

• Mass Effect 2
• Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning
• Final Fantasy: Tactics
• BioShock
• Deus Ex: Human Revolution
• Mount and Blade: Warband
• Fable II

 

[Mrowak]

Indeed the gameplay was centered around the story, but without the key interactive elements (dialogues, quests and all the mechanics around them), their composition and various levels of interplay between them PS:T would be a very drab experience. In other words excellently exactured gameplay that made PS:T an iconinc title. In fact, I would argue that without player's interaction the story os PS:T is pretty weak (you can read the novel for comparison).

That IS the story: The dialogue, the characters and the branching all are the story.

No, they are just means of telling it aka. storytelling. Indeed it is very important facet which often determines the quality of the story. However, from medium to medium story itself essentially remains the same (maybe with a few changes in adaptation). An example would be PS:T the game and the novel - the story (and the plot) is the same.

For that reason to my mind weak combat - if any combat appears in a game - only drags it down by undermining the facet a storyfaggy focuses on - telling a tale. If this is focus of the game, and there is combat in it it ought to be:

1) fun,
2) integrated into the story,
3) a storytelling mechanic in itself.

This is an additive element and I agree that it is good. But it is hardly necessary to tell a good story. Combat can BE dissociated and still lead to a good story, however preferential the alternative.

I disagree. To my mind "good story" requires good tools at its disposal i.e. it must be well-told in order to be effective. Planescape: Torment is good as long as it sitcks to the gameplay mechanics focused around storytelling (dialogues, quests, etc.). When it introduces combat into equation the story becomes bad, and quite contrived. Stories do not exist in vacuum, and they cannot bear being suspended, only to be enacted lateer on.

The third point means that combat gameplay mode should strive to tell a story in an interactive fashion as well - everything that happens in it, how the player plays, what objectives he choses to favour, ought to be reflected in the story and the other way round.

It is ironic that to this day a little bit more obscure jRPGs put RPGs into shame in this facet.

Are you talking about DS?

Not only, but that as well. One of the Codex favourites is Sengoku Rance - which essentially is a porn game. Why does it enjoy such popularity? Is it because Codexers are a bunch of degenerates and basement-dwellers? Not really, as vapid and trite as the storytelling in Sengoku Rance is is also one of the most effective ones due to the level of integration between all gameplay modes. This simple game has the amount of C&C no western game can compare with, largely due to the fact how well in interprets player actions and reacts to how he plays by giving tonnes of story-related events which can concern main plot, sub-plots, and side-plots and in return create more gameplay. It's really such a shame its subject-matter prevents us from taking it as a paragon of RPGs.

Frankly, I am dying to see this concept fulfilled in a "serious" western game on similar level.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Well. Then I disagree and that is that.

 

[Mrowak]

Well. Then I disagree and that is that.

Aww, and I was hoping for an argument.

I will only add that what I said applies to any medium. If the purpose of the medium is to tell a story it must be tailored to it - otherwise the adaptation is poor, by default. History is full of faithful but poor adaptations of novels into movies or even games into films.

 

[bminorkey]

Arguing about how terms ought to be used is ultimately superficial. The guy who started the poll was in all probability talking about the more traditional distinction between combat system, puzzles, character building etc and dialogue, romance, C&C. Saying the words were misused has no bearing on the poll question's meaning and how almost everyone understood it.

 

[Infinitron]

Recording of Adam's IWD2 game! http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61854-adams-playthrough-of-icewind-dale-2-for-those-who-missed-it/

 

[CrustyBot]

That qloher fucktard is trying again to argue in the romance thread.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/61...romance-thread-pt2/page__st__360#entry1257410

Now he's pretending there are arguments in favor of dumping random features in a game.

He's alone though so he should fuck off easily.

Lame. Thought I killed the topic when I convinced Heretic Saint that it wasn't worth debating anymore. Fucking Hydra.

 

[bminorkey]

The sooner people stop asking for demanding things on the forums the better. It might be too late, though: we probably killed most of the game with the 2nd Big City and 15-floor dungeon (lol).

 

[Raapys]

Well, 500K is a decent amount for just one location. And all of that can be directed towards level design, some new graphics and quests/dialog. It's probably not too far off from what was spent on Athkatla in BG2.

The dungeon's another matter. Then again, it seems likely that they'll reuse a lot of stuff for every level and spread the non-combat content out a lot.