Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[almondblight]

Eh, I thought cooldowns worked fine in Dungeon of Dredmor.

 

[Kirtai]

I'm sitting here trying to discern what the hell is happening on his screen. Fucking douchebags why don't they just record some clean WIP footage.

Why do that when they can tease us with blurry shots and provoke a lot more ranting and raving discussion?

 

[tuluse]

I like this interview. I was wondering how they could make ciphers different from wizards and still be interesting, and I like what they came up with.

I am so bi-polar about this game, must be why devs don't like to tell us things before they're ready.

 

[suejak]

Per-encounter abilities can be used a number of times in an encounter and are then disabled until combat ends. Per-rest abilities can be used a number of times after resting before you must rest to recover them.

I don't know what people object to about cooldowns, but this sounds both cooldown-like and interesting.

 

[Lancehead]

[
I don't know what people object to about cooldowns,

Cooldowns within a combat encounter are boring.

 

[Excidium]

Per-encounter abilities can be used a number of times in an encounter and are then disabled until combat ends. Per-rest abilities can be used a number of times after resting before you must rest to recover them.

I don't know what people object to about cooldowns, but this sounds both cooldown-like and interesting.

I don't see how it's anything like cooldowns, it's more like spontaneous spellcasting in D&D. Or 4E powers actually, I think that's where most of Sawyer's inspiration comes from anyway.

 

[suejak]

Depends on how you define cooldown, and also whether there's a buffer between ability-uses within an encounter.

 

[aris]

bad cooldown = long, fixed duration cooldown with no way of affecting its duration. I have seen several good implementations of cooldown lately though, PE's being one of them.

 

[Excidium]

Depends on how you define cooldown, and also whether there's a buffer between ability-uses within an encounter.

cooldown = recharge time. There's no recharge time, just a limited number of uses.

 

[aris]

Depends on how you define cooldown, and also whether there's a buffer between ability-uses within an encounter.

cooldown = recharge time. There's no recharge time, just a limited number of uses.

Were it a limited use item like a wand, I'd agree with you, but given that it does recharge and that you have to wait to use it the next time, it is indeed a cooldown. But not a bad implementation.

 

[Excidium]

Ok then, in your head everything is cooldowns. I suppose vancian spellcasting is also cooldowns, because you need to rest to recharge your prepared spells.

 

[Infinitron]

So, it turns out that all this time Josh wasn't really talking about "cooldowns" at all.

All that butthurt will be lost in time...like tears in rain.

 

[mediocrepoet]

It was an interesting update. Obsidian seems to be taking a queue from 4E D&D at least in terms of the basics for cooldowns and defenses. Obviously some of the other mechanics Sawyer's talking about are different, but I'm curious to see how closely the final game resembles a 4E product.

* cooldowns -> per encounter, per day, at will, etc. powers to the exclusion of other ways of categorizing

 

[aris]

Ok then, in your head everything is cooldowns.

Indeed, if it is a real time game. In a turn based game, it makes sense to talk about abilities with no cooldown. Not only does cooldowns force itself due to physical limitations and the imposibility of doing an unlimited amounts of actions every second, it is also coded into every single game, not just rpgs, so that the game plays with the same pace on all computers that are able to run them. (Something that was typically not implemented in old dos games, resulting in hilarious speeds, if I have understood the cause of that correctly). I find it silly to make an arbitrary distinction between all other games and, let's say, MMORPGs from where it is famous, where you can see a clock ticking down to the next time you use it. There are bad cooldown implementations and there are good ones, but all real time games have them.

 

[Excidium]

So, it turns out that all this time Josh wasn't really talking about "cooldowns" at all.

Who knows what the fuck he means by cooldowns anyway. Figures Fallout is cooldown-based too and we never knew.

 

[hiver]

I would rather have Barbarian wild sprint giving enhanced "evasion/dodge" then making barbarian completely resistant to everything, as this update seems to suggest.

Otherwise, pretty good stuff.

 

[tuluse]

Ok then, in your head everything is cooldowns.

Indeed, if it is a real time game. In a turn based game, it makes sense to talk about abilities with no cooldown. Not only does cooldowns force itself due to physical limitations and the imposibility of doing an unlimited amounts of actions every second, it is also coded into every single game, not just rpgs, so that the game plays with the same pace on all computers that are able to run them. (Something that was typically not implemented in old dos games, resulting in hilarious speeds, if I have understood the cause of that correctly). I find it silly to make an arbitrary distinction between all other games and, let's say, MMORPGs from where it is famous, where you can see a clock ticking down to the next time you use it. There are bad cooldown implementations and there are good ones, but all real time games have them.

When people were complaining about cooldowns, they meant a waiting period to use that ability again. IE the game lets you use anything else in your arsenal, but not fireball for 5 seconds after you cast it. Not any of this other stuff.

 

[Infinitron]

Ok then, in your head everything is cooldowns.

Indeed, if it is a real time game. In a turn based game, it makes sense to talk about abilities with no cooldown. Not only does cooldowns force itself due to physical limitations and the imposibility of doing an unlimited amounts of actions every second, it is also coded into every single game, not just rpgs, so that the game plays with the same pace on all computers that are able to run them. (Something that was typically not implemented in old dos games, resulting in hilarious speeds, if I have understood the cause of that correctly). I find it silly to make an arbitrary distinction between all other games and, let's say, MMORPGs from where it is famous, where you can see a clock ticking down to the next time you use it. There are bad cooldown implementations and there are good ones, but all real time games have them.

When people were complaining about cooldowns, they meant a waiting period to use that ability again. IE the game lets you use anything else in your arsenal, but not fireball for 5 seconds after you cast it. Not any of this other stuff.

That's not entirely accurate. There's also a concept of a "global cooldown", where you can't use anything for 5 seconds.

 

[tuluse]

Yes, but with respect to this game and the previous updates from Sawyer that's not what people were worried about.

 

[Infinitron]

Yes, but with respect to this game and the previous updates from Sawyer that's not what people were worried about.

Depends who you ask.

 

[aris]

Ok then, in your head everything is cooldowns.

Indeed, if it is a real time game. In a turn based game, it makes sense to talk about abilities with no cooldown. Not only does cooldowns force itself due to physical limitations and the imposibility of doing an unlimited amounts of actions every second, it is also coded into every single game, not just rpgs, so that the game plays with the same pace on all computers that are able to run them. (Something that was typically not implemented in old dos games, resulting in hilarious speeds, if I have understood the cause of that correctly). I find it silly to make an arbitrary distinction between all other games and, let's say, MMORPGs from where it is famous, where you can see a clock ticking down to the next time you use it. There are bad cooldown implementations and there are good ones, but all real time games have them.

When people were complaining about cooldowns, they meant a waiting period to use that ability again. IE the game lets you use anything else in your arsenal, but not fireball for 5 seconds after you cast it. Not any of this other stuff.

There was not an insignificant cooldown on casting spells in the IE games. I think it in fact was something in the vicinity of 5 seconds. The reason why it didn't feel so long, is because the cooldown started immediatly after you started the incantation, so if it was long, you could immediatly throw another one. Were you casting a magic missile or a spell failed however, you had to wait for the cooldown to go down to cast a new one.

A global cooldown lasting longer than, say, a second, is something I'm quite opposed to though.

Edit: Complete reading comprehension fail :p I don't really understand your point though. Doesn't IE have the exact same type of cooldowns that people are complaining about then? Having to wait to cast a spell again.

 

[Infinitron]

That wasn't a "cooldown", it was the length of a round. Six seconds, not five.

 

[Excidium]

That wasn't a cooldown on casting spells, IE used 6 second rounds for combat, and you could cast only one spell per round (or do only one attack, unless you had extra attacks).

 

[aris]

I'm well aware of that, but that is a de facto cooldown. If I remember well, were you to cast a magic missile at the end of your round, say, the 4th second, then you could not cast another magic missile 2 seconds later, you had to wait 6 seconds after the beginning of the incantation every time.

 

[~RAGING BONER~]

i like the way the Cipher builds up his damage over time...seems like a class that if well protected can be a deciding factor in major combat encounters. It takes time to build that thought bomb.