Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Excidium]

I'm well aware of that, but that is a de facto cooldown. If I remember well, were you to cast a magic missile at the end of your round, say, the 4th second, then you could not cast another magic missile 2 seconds later, you had to wait 6 seconds after the beginning of the incantation every time.

As far as I know the round starts when you cast the spell.

 

[hiver]

All that butthurt will be lost in time...like derp in the rain.

fixed. please quote appropriately if you really have to use the uber line for crap like this.

 

[aris]

I'm well aware of that, but that is a de facto cooldown. If I remember well, were you to cast a magic missile at the end of your round, say, the 4th second, then you could not cast another magic missile 2 seconds later, you had to wait 6 seconds after the beginning of the incantation every time.

As far as I know the round starts when you cast the spell.

That's kind of strange when there are several casters in your party, which there often is, unless each party member has their own round timing.

 

[Excidium]

I'm well aware of that, but that is a de facto cooldown. If I remember well, were you to cast a magic missile at the end of your round, say, the 4th second, then you could not cast another magic missile 2 seconds later, you had to wait 6 seconds after the beginning of the incantation every time.

As far as I know the round starts when you cast the spell.

That's kind of strange when there are several casters in your party, which there often is, unless each party member has their own round timing.

I am p. sure that is the case, everyone has their own round countdown. It's basically a...fuck...a global cooldown.

fixed. please quote appropriately if you really have to use the uber line for crap like this.

You are the one quoting wrong.

 

[Captain Shrek]

Good. Coolddowns and in combat Regen are gone. Now the last thing that remains is Per encounter abominations. Once they are gone, I can see hope for this game.

RtWP can INDEED be highly complex and designed around tactical depth. The problem is the party. If you have to pause for micromanaging every party member midway of their actions, it is rather considered annoying than deep. It is simply more convenient (in my opinion) to allow for Single Player (no party) combat when designing RtWP games.

One of my own favourite RTwP games, Hearts of Iron 2, requires a lot of micromanagement as a large nation on the harder difficulties. That is also the part of the charm of the game. In terms of keeping watch over what's happening in the game, going to NWN 2 from there is like going back to kindergarten from university. If you think it's annoying to pause every time you want to give an orderin NWN 2, is it because your keyboard hand gets exhausted? I have a hard time seeing exactly why.

If you have problems with the AI, turn it off. It's often the most sensible thing to do anyway unless you're on autopilot.

Because strategy games are exactly the same as RPGs. o_O Not to mention that HOI 2 can be a better game if it were turn based like imperialism.

 

[aris]

I think the codex gets to easily caught up in key words, like cool down, immersive, consoles. None of these makes for automatically bad games. There are just good and bad implementations of all those.

 

[Captain Shrek]

I think the codex gets to easily caught up in key words, like cool down, immersive, consoles. None of these makes for automatically bad games. There are just good and bad implementations of all those.

I think a lot of us give reasons why we don't like these. And why we dislike Diablowjob 3.

 

[Harold]

So, it turns out that all this time Josh wasn't really talking about "cooldowns" at all.

Actually, he was. At least until they started designing the inventory system.

We've previously discussed grimoire-switching for wizards possibly invoking a cooldown. It's more likely that grimoire-switching will be limited through the inventory system and not by a cooldown.

Saved by the top-of-pack, who would've thought

 

[Infinitron]

So, it turns out that all this time Josh wasn't really talking about "cooldowns" at all.

Actually, he was. At least until they started designing the inventory system.

We've previously discussed grimoire-switching for wizards possibly invoking a cooldown. It's more likely that grimoire-switching will be limited through the inventory system and not by a cooldown.

Saved by the top-of-pack, who would've thought

I think you're referring to the "equipment belt", not the "top of the pack".

Also, what's the problem with it? It's a harsher restriction than what was in the IE games. No fucking inventory access during combat!

It's the concept of the "stash" that some people were butthurt about.

 

[Harold]

I think you're referring to the "equipment belt", not the "top of the pack".

Also, what's the problem with it? It's a harsher restriction than what was in the IE games. No fucking inventory access during combat!

It's the concept of the "stash" that some people were butthurt about.

I've no problem with it, I'm just amazed it's what apparently sparked the elimination of cooldowns.
The magical floating stash is still dumb, though it will probably be renamed into 'bag of holding' pretty soon.

 

[imweasel]

Sawyer originally wanted a cooldown system (like in MMOs), there is a whole thread of bitching and whining about this @ Obsidian forums.
He proposed a similar system to what we now have quite a while ago though. And now it is official.

 

[Infinitron]

I think you're referring to the "equipment belt", not the "top of the pack".

Also, what's the problem with it? It's a harsher restriction than what was in the IE games. No fucking inventory access during combat!

It's the concept of the "stash" that some people were butthurt about.

I've no problem with it, I'm just amazed it's what apparently sparked the elimination of cooldowns.
The magical floating stash is still dumb, though it will probably be renamed into 'bag of holding' pretty soon.

Well, you can take things out of a bag of holding anywhere you want, so that would be weird.

 

[roshan]

Q: However, on a personal level, when it comes to being immersed in playing the game. Does the idea of never missing regardless of the maths and dice rolls sound right to you? Would you not like to see your massive beast of a warrior swing and miss completely? Or a fireball go wide and explode on the wall behind the intended victim?

A: I personally don't have a negative reaction to hitting 100% of the time. Mechanically, the "all-or-nothing" D&D hit/miss system can easily change the outcome of a fight based on a die roll even when the players/DM are performing the most tactically sound action. Our revised crit/hit/graze/miss system still allows for that possibility, but it is much less likely, especially over a series of rolls.

I think this reply is quite stupid. If you DON'T consider the range of randomness in the system then you are OBVIOUSLY NOT making the most tactically sound action. The MOST tactically sound action is by definition the one that takes into consideration the range of randomness.

 

[Infinitron]

I would say that extreme randomness defies all tactics. All non cheesy tactics at least.

 

[aris]

Also, what's the problem with it? It's a harsher restriction than what was in the IE games. No fucking inventory access during combat!

I like the idea of that. In the IE game you could change and use everything in your inventory, except for armor, though you could change boots(!), belt and helm in the midst of combat. And while in BG and ICWD you could only use one consumable per round, in PS:T you could just pause and use and infinite amount of consumables in a milli-second. Which didn't do any good for combat.

 

[roshan]

I would say that extreme randomness defies all tactics. All non cheesy tactics at least.

Straw man argument.

 

[imweasel]

Physx instead of Havok or Bullet is being used for physics. Fuck that if the game looks better on an Nvidia GPU because of this.

We will be using PhysX provided through Unity.

source

 

[roshan]

I would say that extreme randomness defies all tactics. All non cheesy tactics at least.

Straw man argument.

Here, please have this internet containing this article Sir.

What's your point?

 

[imweasel]

I think this reply is quite stupid. If you DON'T consider the range of randomness in the system then you are OBVIOUSLY NOT making the most tactically sound action. The MOST tactically sound action is by definition the one that takes into consideration the range of randomness.

You are correct.

And please, post a link to the source next time.

 

[Infinitron]

Straw man argument.

Strawman according to you. But Josh does think low level D&D had extreme randomness.

 

[roshan]

Straw man argument.

Strawman according to you. But Josh does think low level D&D had extreme randomness.

Obviously he would think that as it seems he has absolutely no clue what "the most tactically sound action" means.

 

[Infinitron]

Obviously he would think that as it seems he has absolutely no clue what "the most tactically sound action" means.

He's saying that with too much randomness there is no tactically sound action.

 

[Lancehead]

He was probably referring to low level AD&D where you can kill an enemy in one hit, and an enemy can kill you in one hit. Not much tactics there to consider, only hoping you roll the numbers right.

 

[roshan]

Obviously he would think that as it seems he has absolutely no clue what "the most tactically sound action" means.

He's saying that with too much randomness there is no tactically sound action.

Sorry, that's not what he has written in the post. He is talking about:

"the "all-or-nothing" D&D hit/miss system"

Even someone with double digit IQ should be able to compensate for the ability to miss attacks by planning their tactics accordingly. Most RPG's have had this mechanic and players have been planning their strategies accordingly for years. If Sawyer can't do this then it's no wonder that Project Eternity will turn out to be a dumbed down mess.

 

[Infinitron]

Literal minded, much? I'm interpreting what he said.