Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Vault Dweller]

Dagger is good because it's small, light, concealable and doesn't get in the way when you're doing all sorts of weird stuff.
Dagger is very, very, bad when it's your only weapon and you're face to face with dude armed with something with several times your reach.

Very true. This also reminds me of something - do daggers still ignore armor in the latest version of AoD? Man, that really pissed me off when I first played the demo. I understand this was done to balance all weapon choices, but it still sucked.

Daggers have a CHANCE to ignore armor. Starts at 10% and grows slowly with your skill.

Unless the difference in skill is huge, a lightly armored fighter with a dagger should get absolutely creamed 9 times out of 10 against a heavier armored fighter with a sword. I hate balancing done in such an obviously artificial way.

So, if the player wants to play a fighter he should be forced to wear heavy armor and use a big ass sword because every other type should "get absolutely creamed" 9 out of 10?

Btw, there are plenty of medieval fighting techniques dedicated to dagger fighting and showing how to use daggers against weapons with longer reach.

 

[hiver]

DraQ
Reptilian Jesus overlord ftw!!!!

/

Im going to make a heavy armor fighter who gets buffed by mages, potions and whatever, bullrushes everyone and fast stabs them to death with his +crits crafted dagger. A lot.

 

[MasPingon]

I fail to see how it is much worse than, anything made by Obsidian.

What the fuck am I reading on my Codex? Did you even play New Vegas or Mask of the Betrayer?

 

[Mrowak]

I fail to see how it is much worse than, anything made by Obsidian.

What the fuck am I reading on my Codex? Did you even play New Vegas or Mask of the Betrayer?

Ehh? What are you referring to? Some post I made like two months ago? Whatever. Mask of the Betrayer is a glorified visual novel - at this it is quite good. However, any gameplay elements in it are downright disastrous. As for New Vegas... I simply cannot into reimagined Fallout. I know for sure that it didn't grab me, but that might not be fault on their part.

 

[hiver]

Mask of the Betrayer is a glorified visual novel - at this it is quite good. However, any gameplay elements in it are downright disastrous.

o_O

 

[Mrowak]

Mask of the Betrayer is a glorified visual novel - at this it is quite good. However, any gameplay elements in it are downright disastrous.

o_O

Well, combat system (partially due to disastrous interface) was shit, encounter design was attrocious, dialogue was mostly based around arbitrary stat tresholds in the vein of "click to win" (with a few notable exceptions, admittedly)... There were huge parts that simply amounted to wasting your time.

 

[imweasel]

^
Why did you even back PE if you think that everything Obsidian has ever prooduced is crap?

 

[Mrowak]

^
Why did you even back PE if you think that everything Obsidian has ever prooduced is crap?

To troll clueless shitposters like you.

 

[imweasel]

Master retard thinks he is a master troller.

Ok, so there really is no reason. You're just a braindead idiot.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Dagger is good because it's small, light, concealable and doesn't get in the way when you're doing all sorts of weird stuff.
Dagger is very, very, bad when it's your only weapon and you're face to face with dude armed with something with several times your reach.

Very true. This also reminds me of something - do daggers still ignore armor in the latest version of AoD? Man, that really pissed me off when I first played the demo. I understand this was done to balance all weapon choices, but it still sucked.

Daggers have a CHANCE to ignore armor. Starts at 10% and grows slowly with your skill.

I know. I guess it's still in then.

Unless the difference in skill is huge, a lightly armored fighter with a dagger should get absolutely creamed 9 times out of 10 against a heavier armored fighter with a sword. I hate balancing done in such an obviously artificial way.

So, if the player wants to play a fighter he should be forced to wear heavy armor and use a big ass sword because every other type should "get absolutely creamed" 9 out of 10?

No, what this means is that a player playing a character dressed in leather and wielding a knife really shouldn't tangle with somebody in a plate armor with a big-ass sword. At least not in a strait-up fight. If a player playing a character with no combat skills goes up against a heavily armed and armored opponent and gets killed, you would say that is fair, wouldn't you? So why wouldn't you say the same for a player with a character with poor weapon going up against the same opponent? This is really a heavy-handed attempt at making all weapon choices equally viable. You could have made daggers useful in another way, without making them penetrate armor. I wasn't paying attention to AoD development for a long while now, so I apologize if some of the these things are in: You could have implemented a way to make the fact that dagger is concealable matter. Maybe there a lot of areas where you simply cannot carry any weapon except a dagger. You could have made dialog-choices where you can use a dagger to quickly and silently end the fight before it even begins. You could have made a single skill for daggers and short blades. You could have made the best weapon (the only magical weapon or whatever) in the game be a dagger.

Btw, there are plenty of medieval fighting techniques dedicated to dagger fighting and showing how to use daggers against weapons with longer reach.

Name three (just kidding). But there's a big difference between a fighting technique created to try to compensate for a huge weapon drawback (short reach) and the technique that teaches people how to attack plate armor with a knife with a reasonable chance of walking away with all of their limbs. Dagger was popular during the medieval period not because it was any good against proper armor or heavier weapons, but for the same reason knives are still a popular melee weapons today - because it was easily concealable and available (financially and legally) to just about anyone.

Anyway, I don't really wish to derail this threat further with this. I already said my opinion on combat in AoD on Iron Tower forums.

 

[hiver]

Ill just say this, the fact of the matter is that in AoD you cannot survive a fight without a good defense skill, either dodging or blocking.
And if you think you can just wear light or medium armor and go charge a heavy armored fighter wielding a sword or any other high damage weapon, well - i suggest you try.

Seems to me that everyone here is forgetting about these "details" that play a big role in any game and will play a big role in P:E.

 

[tuluse]

No, what this means is that a player playing a character dressed in leather and wielding a knife really shouldn't tangle with somebody in a plate armor with a big-ass sword. At least not in a strait-up fight.

I don't think this is a problem with either game. In P:E the dagger wielding rogue is going to be useful for flanking and sneak attacks, not standing in front like retard.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.formspring.me/GZiets

 

[Kirtai]

No, what this means is that a player playing a character dressed in leather and wielding a knife really shouldn't tangle with somebody in a plate armor with a big-ass sword. At least not in a strait-up fight.

The thing is, people in full plate armour should be really rare. It's extremely expensive custom work that requires a lot of maintenance after all so if you're encountering a lot of them you're either fighting a prepared elite military force or a bunch of rich nobles/knights in which case you've got bigger problems. Or, of course, you're playing a game where the designers thought that every random mercenary should be able to afford the medieval equivalent of a main battle tank.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.formspring.me/ksaun/q/422401720539170650

How do you like P:E's setting so far?

The soul aspects are very intriguing to me and souls are my favorite part so far. I’m not sure yet exactly where they’re going, but there’s a lot of possibilities and potential. The fact that one of the first updates talked about souls, that they have been mentioned on other occasions, and that they permeate multiple character classes all suggest that souls will be a focal point of the game. So I expect we’ll have a lot to discover about them and how they influence the world and cultures.

I really liked the initial information released about the gods. Woedica is interesting – I like the idea of a god who was, or felt she was, in charge, and no longer is. Sounds like some very cool background stories/myths to uncover there. Berath (cycles, doors, and death) sounds great to me (and harkens back to the souls concept...). I like that Berath has multiple identities and facets (as discussed in Update #24) – not only is that specific example cool, but I like the level of richness it suggests we’ll see throughout the world (not that I expected anything less =) ).

And I’m not sure that this was intended as any sort of inside joke, but the “doors” part cracks me up. In implementing an RPG, doors are one of those things that cause way more problems than it seems they should. I mean, how hard it can be to have an object that just opens and closes, right? =) But you have to worry about their impact on lighting, pathfinding, line of sight, their animation speed… so many things that can go wrong or look bad. Add to that things like combat or scripted events or party control… it’s just not fun times. I remember a late night conversation with Feargus once (I forget which project we were working on) where he just said to me: “Doors are hard. They just are.” =) On one of the games I worked on at Alelo, my team wanted to implement doors and I said, “No, too much work. Just trust me on this.” So the fact that the god of doors is also the god of death is very amusing to me. =) Anyway, I like Berath. I’m definitely planning to have a chanter who worships him (it?).

The one thing I haven’t been fond of is the existence of gunpowder. Well, I like it from the perspective of its implications for combat gameplay – the way Josh has described the limited applicability of gunpowder is cool from a systems design perspective. But in general, I don’t like it mixing gunpowder technology with my fantasy… it gives me a sort of uncomfortable feeling. (This may seem odd for me to say as Numenera involves much more technology than gunpowder. And, in fact it took me a little time to acclimate to Numenera and grow to really like it. The way technology is present in the world helps create the aura of mystery and discovery that Monte is fostering and ultimately it works well for me. And feeling a bit uncomfortable with the setting, at least initially, seems appropriate for a Torment game anyway. =) ) Somehow, the gnomish technology in Krynn won me over, so I think it’s an aspect I’ll adjust to in P:E. (Gnomes, incidentally, are my favorite fantasy race, so I’m a little bummed that they didn’t seem to make it in. Lose the elves and give me gnomes, I say! )

I like the more unusual character classes – the ciphers and chanters in particular. Probably at least in part because of the souls aspect. =) (And chanters don’t feel like bards to me at all, incidentally. =) Nor do orlans make me think of hobbits.) A part of me wishes that the classes veered more from D&D in at least their names, but the part of me that has precious little time to play others’ games is thankful for the easier learning curve. (Personally, I wish the classes were organized as a few core classes and then subclass variants – I actually liked the concept of class groups from AD&D 2nd edition.)

Overall, the setting feels so vast to me still – I’ve only seen a tiny glimpse of the world, so it’s not yet well-defined in my head. I like the details I’ve read so far, but I don’t know enough for it to evoke strong impressions like those I have for some other RPG settings/worlds, like Dark Sun, Dragonlance, or Paranoia. But some of the official worlds I’ve played in (or read about) the most, like Forgotten Realms and the World of Greyhawk, never did achieve much defining personality to me and I still had great adventures in them, especially when focused on specific regions with rich cultures and backstory (e.g., Rasheman).

I’m certain that Obsidian will achieve the depth I crave within the areas covered in the first game and I’m optimistic that the world itself will also develop more of unique feel for me as we read and learn (and play!) more. (Get crackin’ on that novella, Avellone! =) ) Many games set in new worlds focus on just that game first – which is much easier – but then makes it harder to later expand to become a complete and satisfying setting, sometimes resulting in the game feeling hollow and disconnected. So I’m glad that Obsidian has taken on the exciting challenge of crafting the entire setting beyond what a single game requires – it will provide many more possibilities for the future and also result in a deeper experience in Project Eternity.

http://www.formspring.me/JESawyer/q/423549159887362166

Clarification needed. Will a combat focused character be able to master two or more different weapons to the same degree? In regards to the concept of switching weapons in combat to adjust for different circumstances and or enemies. Which i like, btw.

Yes. Weapon specialization-oriented Talents will be thematically grouped (e.g. Knight Weapons) rather than specific weapons or damage types.

 

[Lord Andre]

Hey everybody. Do you know why Josh Sawyer sucks ?


Because he's not Kevin Saunders.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Suck it bitches.

I'm sorry I was just playing.

But seriously. Suck it.

 

[Infinitron]

Calm yourself, Andre. I can promise you that something in the Torment successor is going to piss you off eventually.

 

[Jaesun]

Fargo needs to hire Zeits.

 

[Lord Andre]

Calm yourself, Andre. I can promise you that something in the Torment successor is going to piss you off eventually.

No. The dude had me at hello. I will become the roguey to Kevin Saunders' sawyer. We will be inseparable. I. WILL. HAVE. HIS. BABIES.

 

[MetalCraze]

^
Why did you even back PE if you think that everything Obsidian has ever prooduced is crap?

To troll clueless shitposters like you.

Wow. You are an incredible imbecile.

The best part is that this isn't even anything special. After "I'm losing my character in the game because he has a different haircut" the retardation of an average Codexer should be taken for granted.

 

[Mrowak]

^
Why did you even back PE if you think that everything Obsidian has ever prooduced is crap?

To troll clueless shitposters like you.

Wow. You are an incredible imbecile.

The best part is that this isn't even anything special. After "I'm losing my character in the game because he has a different haircut" the retardation of an average Codexer should be taken for granted.

Another bait taken! Seriously, I am not even trying...

 

[Krash]

I'm sorry, but due to the level difference, trolling skyway no longer nets you xp.

 

[hiver]

Diminishing returns... harumph.

Clarification needed. Will a combat focused character be able to master two or more different weapons to the same degree? In regards to the concept of switching weapons in combat to adjust for different circumstances and or enemies. Which i like, btw.

Yes. Weapon specialization-oriented Talents will be thematically grouped (e.g. Knight Weapons) rather than specific weapons or damage types.

[/quote]
Fuck! ... Additional questions asked... damn it!

 

[Blaine]

Ah yes, the classic warrior with a broadsword sheathed on his right side, a mace hanging from a loop on his left, a rapier tucked into the rear portion of his belt, and a stack of shields resistant to several different elements strapped to his back.

Evocative stuff.

 

[Roguey]

Jaw-shwa talkin' about the absurdities of 3e/Pathfinder armor and why he is better than all those "professional" tabletop hacks at his favorite video game shitposting forum:

i gave one of my pathfinder players a suit of shadowed half-plate +1 last week and we looked at the armor list and it was the last straw. i think one of the goofiest things about 3E/3.5/pathfinder is that they're pretty abstract/gamey when it comes to ability scores, races, and classes, but when it's time to define base gear types, they enter some weird quasi-simulationist design mode. with weapons and armor they try to model a bunch of different antagonist factors and wind up with a bunch of Bad Choices. i mean, everyone pretty much knows that medium armor in these games is a world of shit and heavy armor is sort of the "well i have a low dex so i guess..." option, but it's not like these are hard things to address by doing things like:

* compressing the list of base armor types
* reducing the top end armor bonus from the heaviest armor (max of 7 with full plate)
* removing max dex bonus
* removing base speed restrictions
* shifting heavy armor proficiency to a higher level (3rd) gained ability for fighters/paladins
* make the check penalty and ASF for any given medium or heavy armor lower than it is for the equivalent armor bonus gear one category below

then the only other thing you need to do to prevent runaway crazy person AC is cap the max enchantment bonus of shields and double the cost per +1 of enchantment. you wind up with medium armor being statistically superior to light armor in all regards except weight and heavy armor being superior to medium armor in all regards except weight. if you step the check penalties and ASF in larger bands, there's actually a reason why you would want to wear the "worst" armor bonus in a class over the best.

hope you've enjoyed all these words about armor.