Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jedi Exile]

Only normal weapons did broke in BG, so it wasn't really important because you could find enchanted swords, daggers etc. relatively soon.

 

[Kz3r0]

"Project Eternity, or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying listening to Sawyer and avoid every update as a plague to avoid to rage."

This is more like it.

 

[Logic_error]

In my limited experience the weapon degradation is just a gimmick. It does not really add anything to the game other than frantic search for more weapons. It shines relatively well in games like Betrayal at Krondor where you can loot all the weapons carried by enemies.

But then Krondor does not ave stupid +1 swords.

PE is clearly high fantasy, so probably it will have too many magical items. Considering that the people involved in PE made NWN2 + expansions, we can safely extrapolate that they have no idea about resource management in games *Except Cain that is. There such a mechanic (of weapon degradation) will only be a hindrance which ought to be best left out

 

[Kz3r0]

On the subject of item degradation, as much as I love Timmie, I couldn't help bu think about Arcanum before the official patch, brrr.

 

[Sensuki]

Remove item durability, give crafting a different bonus or benefit (such as a bonus from other party members having crafting, or synergy with other skills etc)

Put unique items in dungeons AND shops as per BG2 (I don't think I ever heard anyone complain about the "Adventurer's Mart" or the Collector's Edition shop but I may be wrong).

 

[Kz3r0]

Did Sawyer had any fun playing any RPG?
So, what they want to do, differentiate crafting in different subsets, like craft sword, craft axe etc.?
In that case crafting will become a job system, so why not use something like that from the beginning?

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

if we put unique gear in stores, people complain that they don't want to buy gear in stores

What?

Put unique items in dungeons AND shops as per BG2 (I don't think I ever heard anyone complain about the "Adventurer's Mart" or the Collector's Edition shop but I may be wrong).

But what would even be the basis of these complaints?

 

[Sensuki]

Feedback from IWD/IWD2 I think, but that might be one for a formspring question

That said, having Crafting not as a skill doesn't sound like a bad idea.

 

[tuluse]

I think durability could be fixed and still use the crafting skill. The problem right now is that it's a banal shit boring mechanic. The numbers go down at a linear rate, and when they're low enough you spend money to raise them. If you have crafting the numbers go down slower. Yawn.

Literally your only input into the system is crafting skill and how often you use the gear.

Here's some quick ideas to improve on it:
Durability goes down in bigger chunks, and each use is a random chance that it will go down. For example, a sword has 100 durability, in the current system it's damaged after 100 swings with 0 crafting and that's it. Instead have it go down by 20 durability, but only a 5% change of that happening with each swing. On average it will be come damaged at the same time, but thanks to random numbers you could have it actually be interesting where durability decreases quickly in a short time and you have to decided to risk using it or switch out for a less desirable weapon. Crafting skill decreases the random chance, but not the amount you lose to each failed roll.

Different attacks cause different durability losses. Both on offense and defense. Crafting is a durability threshold so high crafting characters will generally lose no durability. Eh this one isn't that good now that I think about it.


Also, Sawyer wants to have a reason for all characters to take crafting, but magic users and monks still have almost no need for the skill, since they don't depend on weapons and armor. So it's still a dump skill for them.

 

[undecaf]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64048-update-58-crafting-with-tim-cain/?p=1347380

I'd like a sincere answer to this question, though I know not all of you are of the same mind: what do you want to spend (in-game) money on?

I worked on IWD, HoW, TotL, and IWD2. In virtually all of these games, I heard these two complaints over and over and over:

When unique items were in stores:
* I don't want to buy unique items in stores.

When unique items were in dungeons:
* I have nothing to spend my money on.

In all of these games, items you found on adventures were almost always one of the following: a) directly usable (i.e. gear or consumables) b) wealth items or c) quest items. If something wasn't usable, it was usually a wealth item (gold, gem, etc.). A wealth item only existed to give you gold, but for gold to have some sort of value, there needs to be something you want that costs x gold. If high-value items aren't what you spend your gold on, what do you spend your gold on? In PE, you may spend gold on your stronghold, but there's no guarantee of that. And according to a lot of you, no one uses consumables, so if consumables aren't used, they're just wealth items -- not something you would want to spend gold on.

Part of the reason for having a crafting system was to make consumables less common in the world. Only people who want to make/use them would see a relatively large quantity of them. Since crafting ingredients are stored and sorted separately from other items, their presence subtracts nothing from the carrying capabilities of players who ignore the system entirely.

There are recurring trends I'm seeing:

* Don't like crafting.
* Don't like durability.
* Don't like consumables.

Combining those with with the two points at the top, it's hard for me to figure out where the gold is going to go. There is also the possibility that players don't actually want a long-term gold economy in a SP game, that gold in the mid- and late-game is ultimately something to accumulate and that most/all forms of gear upgrading simply happens through quests and exploration. That's not an invalid way to go, but I'd like to hear thoughts on it if you have the time.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Josh sounds butthurt.

 

[Grunker]

Josh sounds butthurt.

Also, who are these people who don't both pick up and buy? Why does Josh want to cater to weird fetish players so badly?

 

[dnf]

Josh sounds butthurt.

Also, who are these people who don't both pick up and buy? Why does Josh want to cater to weird fetish players so badly?

Because its a progressive duty to cater to everyone and enrage everyone at the same time.

 

[Excidium]

Maybe there wouldn't be such a wealth accumulation issue if he didn't give people an infinite inventory to loot everything and dump on a merchant later.

 

[Sensuki]

Yeah I have a feeling this was a bit unexpected for them

 

[4too]

Oh, Ye Of Little Faith



PE: Do the vox populi want a 'click-click you're dead' Diablo clone, or a little less spread sheet please?

PE: Some not ready for a life time commitment?

The fee for ...

"Always Faithful".







4too

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah I have a feeling this was a bit unexpected for them

They should have expected it. Like I said, the people who oppose durability are the same people who oppose time limits, for basically the same reasons. And Obsidian knows quite well how vocal the time limit haters are.

 

[Grunker]

Maybe there wouldn't be such a wealth accumulation issue if he didn't give people an infinite inventory to loot everything and dump on a merchant later.

Not that I'm a fan of the stash, but I've never player an IE-game where I had to leave behind loot or ran out of money.

Yeah I have a feeling this was a bit unexpected for them

They should have expected it. Like I said, the people who oppose durability are the same people who oppose time limits, for basically the same reasons. And Obsidian knows quite well how vocal the time limit haters are.

So the reason you didn't reply to my argument against the above is that you didn't want to stop posting it?

 

[Excidium]

Maybe there wouldn't be such a wealth accumulation issue if he didn't give people an infinite inventory to loot everything and dump on a merchant later.

Not that I'm a fan of the stash, but I've never player an IE-game where I had to leave behind loot or ran out of money.

Inventory in IE games is rather broken too, though not as badly. Main problem with IE games economically is over-abundance of magic items and merchants who gladly buy all the shit you have (although it makes sense in BG with the iron shortage and all)

Problems that PE will likely have too.

 

[Infinitron]

So the reason you didn't reply to my argument against the above is that you didn't want to stop posting it?

What argument? I don't care why YOU or Sensuki think durability is bad. I'm telling you that the hordes of idiots who hate time limits ALSO hate durability. And there are lots of them!

 

[Grunker]

There's a difference between annoying mechanics and hardcore mechanics, though I realize the difference eludes most of the Codex for much of the time. Spirit Eating could be avoided entirely by taking the good route (in which case management was easy), and it was a central mechanic of the game on the evil route. It had strong impact on the game and its management had many consequences that were entirely integral to how the game played.

Conversely, durability is just an insignificant fix for another problems. It adds all the annoyance of the spirit meter without any of the advantages.

Time limits =/= durability. In any way.

One aims to enforce urgency and is a mechanic to create. Durability is insignificant and is used to fix other problems that should have better solutions than random annoyances to the play.

Maybe there wouldn't be such a wealth accumulation issue if he didn't give people an infinite inventory to loot everything and dump on a merchant later.

Not that I'm a fan of the stash, but I've never player an IE-game where I had to leave behind loot or ran out of money.

Inventory in IE games is rather broken too, though not as badly. Main problem with IE games economically is over-abundance of magic items and merchants who gladly buy all the shit you have (although it makes sense in BG with the iron shortage and all)


Problems that PE will likely have too.

I don't think those are big problems when they exist alongside a money sink which is sufficiently important.

 

[Excidium]

Other than 'money sink' existing solely to fix a broken economy...

 

[Space Satan]

Maybe Josh have been possessed by Gaider and Laidlaw and now he is fighting their malignant influences they whisper into his ears?

 

[Grunker]

Other than 'money sink' existing solely to fix a broken economy...

That depends. I don't actually think there's anything wrong with you feeling like the richest motherfucking on the planet at the end of the game. By then you've earned it. There weren't tons of overpowered shit to buy for that cash anyway, most of the best stuff was found.

Introducing a money sink to have something to spend all that on is just a natural evolution of that for me.

I really think people tend to blow these "problems" way out of proportion.

 

[Infinitron]

Maybe Josh have been possessed by Gaider and Laidlaw and now he is fighting their malignant influences they whisper into his ears?