Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[kaizoku]

I was just about to join them. Are you gonna make fun of Jaesun, Rainbow of the Obsidian Order?

That is a more strong man guy attitude than the ones from most of the codex.

Since Infinitron is lazy as fuck
I went to get a list of polls at OE forums. I checked the first 15 pages (so half of what's currently there).
I also tried to split them from a conceptual view point.
Also keep in mind that some of the polls leave a bit to be desired.


stretch goals: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60521-what-do-you-want-to-see-as-new-stretch-goals/
game rating and maturity: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60276-how-realistic-is-your-cup-of-tea/

party creation: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60542-unbiased-poll-on-player-crafted-parties/
xp sharing among party: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60339-xp-sharing/
level scaling: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60248-level-scaling/

xp for kills: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60533-experience-for-killing-enemies/
proper assassination: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60475-stealth-killing/
killing companions: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60347-killing-companions/
magic system: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60372-vancian-magic-system/
magic again: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60261-how-should-magic-work/
counter magic: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60329-counter-magic/
crafting: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60302-crafting-alchemy-enchanting-spell-improvement/
armor mechanics: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60514-gameplay-mechanics-of-armor/
weapon mechanics: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60300-my-weapon-does-nothing/
char gen mechanics: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60455-random-stats-or-bought-stats/
items: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60179-item-distributionplacement/
talking and non-combat solutions: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60335-talking-through-the-game/
talking and skills: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60124-dialogues-should-they-be-tied-to-your-stats/
dialog mechanics: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60207-dialogue-poll/

world map type: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60402-what-kind-of-world-map-do-you-prefer/
game reactivity: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60489-the-pewter-web-plot-flexibility/
C&C: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60...reat-replayability-and-choice-driven-content/
factions: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60326-factions-in-project-eternity/
game play focus: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60401-lets-talk-about-quest-design/
puzzles: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60...have-puzzles-labyrinths-and-small-challenges/
more puzzles: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60141-does-anyone-remember-the-riddles-in-bg2-yay-or-nay/
lore: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60042-is-non-storyline-lore-important-to-you/
game interactivity (what people where asking for AoD [/smug]): http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60320-little-simple-things-for-immersion/

romances: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60404-merged-gods-save-us-another-romance-thread/
STDs: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60422-the-dark-side-of-romance/
modding tools: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60503-how-important-are-mod-tools-to-you/
multiplayer: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60...iplayer-as-some-potential-future-stretchgoal/
chillax house: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60186-what-type-of-player-house-would-you-like/
a smarter house poll: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60435-what-kind-of-player-house-would-you-like-to-see/
voice acting: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60490-voiced-npcs/
portraits: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60165-portrait-poll/
time and weather: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60379-time-and-weather/
2d iso gfx style: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60512-2d-isometric-graphics-warning-large-pictures/
DLCs vs expansions: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60037-dlc-vs-expansion-packs/

music composer poll: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60342-project-eternity-composer-in-house-or-external/
lobby for Justin Sweet: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60122-stretch-goal-hire-justin-sweet-to-make-portraits/





If the tide is in our favor, feel free to bump the thread with a worthwhile post, as to show the subject is important.

Infinitron can you put then at your first post?

Tigranes, can you post a sticky with this list at the forums?

 

[Infinitron]

kaizoku
Well done, although TBH I'm not sure that these old polls are all that important. Especially since so many of them are kind of retarded and should never have been polls.

Will edit OP.

 

[kaizoku]

http://psotter.com/news/exclusive-interview-project-eternity-part-1/
http://psotter.com/news/exclusive-interview-project-eternity-part-2/

Nick K: “Multiplayer, it’s of course very early to talk about it, but how would you make it if you decide to put it in?”

Feargus Urquhart: “In the event that we have multiplayer, it’d be co-op. It’s because that’s how a lot of Infinity Engine games have played in the past. It’s one of those things that, it’s not that you couldn’t figure out PvP modes and stuff like that; but these games are more about making D&D on the PC, and having it feel like D&D, and D&D is all about the party. So if there were Multiplayer, but it’s really out there as a possibility, it would be co-op. Our focus is on single player and we don’t want to tack on anything.”

Nick K: “So speaking of difficulties, are you planning on different game modes?”

Feargus Urquhart: “That’s a good question. We generally do put different levels of difficulty in our game. I think a great example is what Josh Sawyer did in New Vegas. You can still have easy, normal and hard, but what he put into New Vegas was this thing called Hard Core mode which changed the rules. You could play normal but still put it on Hard Core mode which required you to eat and drink. So it made the game harder, but not in the normal way a difficulty level usually does. It doesn’t decrease damage or increase armor, or something that is numbers based, he came up with this mode that actually challenged you. Even back with the Infinity Engine games, it was the same sort of thing. Neverwinter Nights as well. How the rules changed as you went up in difficulty level, it wasn’t straight damage multiplication, or stuff like that, there was other aspects to it. So we’re probably going to tackle it the same way.”


Nick K: “Romances, are you planning on developing them in Project: Eternity as well?”

Feargus Urquhart: “Romances take a lot of effort, and I don’t want to be cagey on romances at all. We don’t want to make them a stretch goal, it’s just a question of if we feel comfortable with the funding. We have to do them right. Some people were giving us flak about, you know, the goal to get to the first companion, class, race, and things like that. They weren’t completely wrong in their criticism, but we don’t have nefarious reasons behind it. If it’s a pretty in depth companion Chris Avellone, who is a pretty quick writer, is looking at 2 or 3 months just for writing it up.”

Nick K: “So I know you’ve talked about the general idea of classes, and it is really early, but are you planning on doing standard classes? For example your standard fighter, wizard, healer or more like Fallout?”

Feargus Urquhart: “One, it will be class based. So it won’t be like Fallout which is skill-based system, it’s going to be a class based. We’re really going to approach it like the races. So there will be some standard classes that will be… more traditional. For instance I’m a traditionalist as a game player, and I’m not saying this is a race/class combination in Project Eternity, but I generally want to play a Dwarven Fighter. If I can play a Dwarven Fighter, then I’m happy. So I think there are a lot of people that have that same sense that there are certain things they like to play. So we’re not going to go off into left field and have nothing that is not traditional or standard. But we want to make sure that, kind of like the races, we still want to make them interesting, unique, and new. There will also be hybrid classes, but we are pushing ourselves to also have classes that are unique and don’t just feel like hybrid classes.”

Nick K: “If for instance you use a different system? Like, you have this fighter/mage that they don’t just have this mana pool and health pool. It might instead be a different way of generating their magic?”

Feargus Urquhart: “Absolutely! Or like Reinheart from Dungeon Siege III, he had this interesting thing where one of his attacks was a medium range attack and only medium range attack. It wasn’t short range and it wasn’t long range, but it was pretty powerful. So it was playing this game of trying to keep the enemies in this medium arc which changed a lot about how you played him. It wasn’t this negative thing, it just changed how you had to play. Also, as you said, trying to generate the pool in a different way. It has to be interesting.”

a worthwhile read
lots of info

 

[Jasede]

So? BG series had level scaling also. Level scaling in itself is not the problem, but the means by which you achieve it can be. If you go full Bethesda and level scale your entire game in a retarded fashion to boot then it is rage worthy. If you have low and high level zones, that might scale to the player level in some way but can have their own minimal level (which is what Faergus seems to be saying there) it can be alright, especially if you choose a level scaling method that is not completely demented.

I played BG 2 at least 10 times (at LEAST) and BG 1 at least 8 or 9 times.
Can you elaborate where you noticed any level scaling? Be specific.

 

[Infinitron]

lol, insect race confirmed?

So? BG series had level scaling also. Level scaling in itself is not the problem, but the means by which you achieve it can be. If you go full Bethesda and level scale your entire game in a retarded fashion to boot then it is rage worthy. If you have low and high level zones, that might scale to the player level in some way but can have their own minimal level (which is what Faergus seems to be saying there) it can be alright, especially if you choose a level scaling method that is not completely demented.

I played BG 2 at least 10 times (at LEAST) and BG 1 at least 8 or 9 times.
Can you elaborate where you noticed any level scaling? Be specific.

BG games had encounter scaling. Higher level --> tougher types of monsters and more numerous

Individual monster types were not scaled however.

 

[kaizoku]

lol, insect race confirmed?

My understanding is that they have talked about it.

I hope not. I am not against it per se, but IMO I don't see it as fitting in this AD&D fantasy alike game.

For instance, there were a lot of threads about an insect race. At first we weren’t really thinking about one, but it’s definitely worth the conversation.

I wonder if there had been a lot of threads about a furry race o_O

I'm wondering if this would please @IdenT (wth is his username?)

 

[Jasede]

lol, insect race confirmed?

So? BG series had level scaling also. Level scaling in itself is not the problem, but the means by which you achieve it can be. If you go full Bethesda and level scale your entire game in a retarded fashion to boot then it is rage worthy. If you have low and high level zones, that might scale to the player level in some way but can have their own minimal level (which is what Faergus seems to be saying there) it can be alright, especially if you choose a level scaling method that is not completely demented.

I played BG 2 at least 10 times (at LEAST) and BG 1 at least 8 or 9 times.
Can you elaborate where you noticed any level scaling? Be specific.

BG games had encounter scaling. Higher level --> tougher types of monsters and more numerous

Individual monster types were not scaled however.

I know this is dumb but can you give me some instances of this, and where it happened?
Something like:

If you go to Area at level 3 you fight this and this and that. But if you go at level 7 you fight this and this and this and that.

I really don't remember this- except for 1 thing: the Nashkel mines had more kobolds at higher levels, as well as mass Gibberlings in the outdoors at higher levels as random spawns.

Otherwise I don't remember any instances. It must have been very subtle and well implemented- it was never a bother. What do you think?

Late edit: now I can also remember extra regular skeletons spawning in areas with skeletons. Damn this fading memory.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Infinitron]

Otherwise I don't remember any instances. It must have been very subtle and well implemented- it was never a bother. What do you think?

Like I said in this thread: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/is-level-scaling-always-bad.75943/

Definition of good level scaling: You don't notice it exists on your first playthrough.

Baldur's Gate's must be really good because you didn't notice it after 10 playthroughs.

 

[DraQ]

you can automatically collect up all the gold pieces and then you can choose to pick up the nicer stuff like swords which SHOULD display DPS since the MMO style item properties IS a evolution in gameplay.

Ok. Kill it with fire.


DISPLAYING DPS IS NOT AN EVOLUTION IN GAMEPLAY YOU MORON! IT ENTRENCHES BACKWARDS AND OUTDATED NOTION OF HP EVEN FUCKING DEEPER MAKING IT NOT AS MUCH EVOLUTION AS MT EVEREST SIZED SPEED BUMP THAT THIS EVOLUTION WILL HAVE TO OVERCOME TO PROGRESS. IF I PICK UP A SWORD IRL IT DOESN'T HAVE DPS STAT, IT'S A SHARP ITEM YOU CAN PUT THROUGH SOMEONE'S BODY DAMAGING IT IN VARIOUS PAINFUL AND INTERESTING WAYS.

These faggots think Bioware's way of handling homosexuality is an improvement for the gay community, fuck that shit. Obsidian has always been better at this; indifference and homosexual characters whose homosexuality is not a trait of their personality.

Fucking this.

If your sexuality is such a dominant trait of your personality that it couldn't be replaced by any other orientation without altering your personality as a whole in significant way, then the chances are that you're a fucking creep.

So no matter what your intentions are, if you're making a character who has certain personality BECAUSE he is gay rather than AND he is gay, chances are you're making a fucking creep. Yup, great service for sexual minorities right there.

Besides, even without that permanently gluing sexual orientation and personality together can easily get bad. If you're interested in promoting tolerance you should be interested in showing how what person you are isn't really dependent on where you prefer to stick your dick, you know, merging your gays, lesbians and trannies into the crowd rather than singling them out.

I'm just saying a writer shouldn't impart any kind of restrictions on himself when exploring the construction of a fictional culture.

Actually no.

If you aim for a result that maybe doesn't replicate RL, but is nevertheless lifelike in certain important aspects (so that it's possible to relate to) it has to observe maybe not RL, but certain set of lifelike restrictions.
Only bad authors see such restrictions as restrictive, great ones see them as scaffolding on which they can build their work.

I don't oppose LGBT or even interspecies content on principle, especially given that there are not just lifelike, but RL historical precedences. However, I do oppose including such content for the sake of it and audience's (modern) sensibilities.

To be honest I think that guy want a gay race. It's just hard to justify how you get one when gay people can't really reproduce. But if there is a race that can switch genders to reproduce then switch back to be gay with each other, then voila. Gay race.

Or herms - there are species like this. Or simply a race that gays around a lot in addition to normal reproductive hetero sex - there are animals and even human cultures like this.

when you start from absurd hypotheses there is not way to reach any non-absurd conclusions.

Logic disagrees. You *may* reach valid conclusion from invalid premise, it's just that you have no way of knowing that.

In my opinion, internal coherence alone is not enough. As I was saying before, that's the reason I prefer science fiction to fantasy. Sci-fi can have internal coherence (usually, the harder the sci-fi, the better) and coherence with the real world so that the starting premise makes sense. Fantasy can have internal coherence, but it can start from any premise and dismiss any criticism by appealing to artistic license. That, for me, is a massive dealbreaker. Take the example of PE: they want to create a mature and interesting story that explore mature themes, but start from patently fantastic concepts such as souls, gods and, worst of all, gods that interact directly with people/people's souls. Personally, I can't take any of their supposedly mature discourse seriously when you start from pure fantasy. For one, you can't debate real-life ethics realistically in a setting in which reincarnation is a scientific fact. Murder, for example, would be a much less serious crime - it would rate on the same level with property crime. Sacrificing your life would be much less of a sacrifice etc. If you've ever been around a compiler, then you must have heard the phrase "Garbage in, garbage out". Well, that's what this is.

Disagreed. Of course, there is this distinction between Sci-Fi and fantasy you mention, but if you keep up the stringent kind of internal consistency typical of good, hard Sci-Fi (at which point it will probably be more along philosophical fiction, than typical fantasy) at least in relevant themes you can still fiddle with stuff and see implications. At the very worst you can use your conworld as a counterexample.

So for example if you can't make a point about a value of life in a world with reincarnation you can try making a counterpoint. Or you make this point and show how it gets even more valid if you remove this fantastic element.

A lot of decent sci-fi (although maybe not the greatest works of it) is built around some single "what if" radiating ripples of influence across conworld. When seen in that way fantasy can be used similarly with only the narrative device used to set up this "what if" being different.

 

[Jasede]

It's probably because in 1 I just solo Ankhegs until my level is maxed out, and in 2 I always did everything in a similar order. >_>

 

[skuphundaku]

You *may* reach valid conclusion from invalid premise

Can you expand on that, please?

 

[evdk]

Is any of you Delterius over at the Obsidian forums? The guy is actually reasonable, a rare trait.

 

[Vault Dweller]

you can automatically collect up all the gold pieces and then you can choose to pick up the nicer stuff like swords which SHOULD display DPS since the MMO style item properties IS a evolution in gameplay.

Ok. Kill it with fire.


DISPLAYING DPS IS NOT AN EVOLUTION IN GAMEPLAY YOU MORON! IT ENTRENCHES BACKWARDS AND OUTDATED NOTION OF HP EVEN FUCKING DEEPER MAKING IT NOT AS MUCH EVOLUTION AS MT EVEREST SIZED SPEED BUMP THAT THIS EVOLUTION WILL HAVE TO OVERCOME TO PROGRESS. IF I PICK UP A SWORD IRL IT DOESN'T HAVE DPS STAT, IT'S A SHARP ITEM YOU CAN PUT THROUGH SOMEONE'S BODY DAMAGING IT IN VARIOUS PAINFUL AND INTERESTING WAYS.

 

[DraQ]

You *may* reach valid conclusion from invalid premise

Can you expand on that, please?

There is nothing to expand.
Truth table for implication looks like this:

p q p=>q

0 0 1
0 1 1
1 0 0
1 1 1

Real life example?
Take little Bobby. Bobby doesn't know about multiplication, but can add pretty well.
When confronted with "2x2=?" he mistakes "x" for skewed "+", because he doesn't know the "x" sign. Oops. Invalid premise.
He then solves the equation as he would solve addition:
"2x2=4"
Right conclusion.

 

[evdk]

Or you could say that even the broken clock is right twice a day and stop trying to impress us with your fancy mathemancy.

 

[DraQ]

Or you could say that even the broken clock is right twice a day and stop trying to impress us with your fancy mathemancy.

That would work too, I suppose.

 

[mediocrepoet]

lol, insect race confirmed?

My understanding is that they have talked about it.

I hope not. I am not against it per se, but IMO I don't see it as fitting in this AD&D fantasy alike game.

Eh, I don't know. It was a different sort of world but AD&D had rules for Thri-kreen PCs in Dark Sun and there were AD&D sourcebooks for level adjusted monstrous PCs for standard settings as well. And if they are going for a Forgotten Realms feel - that setting became the kitchen sink of all the AD&D worlds. So whether insectoids are appropriate would more depend on the lore particulars rather than some blanket statement about how X race type simply doesn't fit. I hope they have some interesting race types in there along with whatever fantasy staples they put in - maybe some intelligent plants, elementals or some sort of undead (preferably not vampires).

All in all, I'm happy to see another game being discussed that has more than 1-3 races where the upper limit of 3 is comprised of human, dwarf and elf. I started to find it sad that one of the only current computer games with interesting character generation choices in terms of race and class seemed to be World of Warcraft with its varied races with actually different racial stats and abilities as well as a decently long list of classes that actually play differently and have different flavour.

 

[Grimlorn]

Probably. I decided to rant anyway.

EDIT: This guy might be the genuinely most misguided person I've met over there. Or I am getting trolled by a pro, I honestly can't tell.

That guy is probably from Bioware. His avatar is from Dragon Age I think.
Merin is also a twat from there too. He's the guy posting all the time in the romance thread.

 

[skuphundaku]

There is nothing to expand.
Truth table for implication looks like this:

p q p=>q

0 0 1
0 1 1
1 0 0
1 1 1

Real life example?
Take little Bobby. Bobby doesn't know about multiplication, but can add pretty well.
When confronted with "2x2=?" he mistakes "x" for skewed "+", because he doesn't know the "x" sign. Oops. Invalid premise.
He then solves the equation as he would solve addition:
"2x2=4"
Right conclusion.

Yeah, I agree with that, but if you base your actions on the fact that there is a chance to get a correct result although what you're doing is wring, you're setting yourself for failure because, as the complexity of your actions increase, the chances of stumbling upon the right result decreases dramatically.

 

[CappenVarra]

you can automatically collect up all the gold pieces and then you can choose to pick up the nicer stuff like swords which SHOULD display DPS since the MMO style item properties IS a evolution in gameplay.

Ok. Kill it with fire.


DISPLAYING DPS IS NOT AN EVOLUTION IN GAMEPLAY YOU MORON! IT ENTRENCHES BACKWARDS AND OUTDATED NOTION OF HP EVEN FUCKING DEEPER MAKING IT NOT AS MUCH EVOLUTION AS MT EVEREST SIZED SPEED BUMP THAT THIS EVOLUTION WILL HAVE TO OVERCOME TO PROGRESS. IF I PICK UP A SWORD IRL IT DOESN'T HAVE DPS STAT, IT'S A SHARP ITEM YOU CAN PUT THROUGH SOMEONE'S BODY DAMAGING IT IN VARIOUS PAINFUL AND INTERESTING WAYS.

 

[Keshik]

Merin's passive aggressiveness is at least worth a chuckle.

 

[Infinitron]

Is any of you Delterius over at the Obsidian forums? The guy is actually reasonable, a rare trait.

That guy is almost certainly a Codexer, possibly MMXI in another one of his disguises?

 

[MMXI]

Is any of you Delterius over at the Obsidian forums? The guy is actually reasonable, a rare trait.

That guy is almost certainly a Codexer, possibly MMXI in another one of his disguises

It's not me. I haven't even been following this game much.

 

[Infinitron]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60...ctions-companions-regions-and-other-features/

I only plan on playing through the game once as one race and class combination, so I want you, Obsidian, to focus all your time and money on making that race/class combination the best gaming experience you possibly can. Please remove all other classes and races, since I don't plan to use them.

I don't care which you include. Maybe you should have a poll and only include the most popular race and class.

Also, I don't like doing sidequests, so none of those, please, and no extra regions. I find a world-map that's too large to be confusing. Please make the main quest the best you absolutely can. Maybe you can release sidequests for those who want them as DLC later.

There should be exactly 5 characters that will (not may) join your party. I want every moment of gameplay specifically crafted for my exact party, with each character chiming in with the perfect dialog at exactly the right time. Obviously, once you start multiplying party makeups, there's no way you can make so many different cohesive narratives on such a small budget.

Please, please, please no multiplayer. I'll never use it. I would prefer that you focus on making the game the best that it can be when experienced by exactly one person. You basically have to make the whole game over again for each additional player you allow.

I don't know what other features you're planning to add, but I would really prefer that you focus on crafting the best versions of the features I am going to use and leave the others out.

Oh, I almost forgot. I am a male that is almost overflowing with testosterone and manliness. If I am not looking at a humanoid female's sexy body I have to immediately leave the computer and go do adult-things with my girlfriend. I will not be able to spend the 15 hours I expect the main quest to take looking at a tiny digital man-butt. For this reason I expect to play as a female. Please remove all other sexes.

Her name will be Alwethia. Now you won't have to waste your tiny budget programming a field to enter the PC's name.

Thanks.