Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I am not seeing the bit about the power armor? i mean, good gear counted for a LOT in the IE games, so it's quite possible that a high-gear low-level char could have an 'effective' level of 3/4 more than what he has.

What I meant by the example was that once you got PA, small fry enemies missed or did 0 damage 99% of the time, making you feel like a tank, and 1% of the time they'd have one of those wacky armor bypassing eye super crits, and you'd be dead in one blow. So that you'd at the same time feel immensely powerful and weak enemies always had a (small) chance of taking you out at any time. PE will probably end up at the other far end of the scale, with weak enemies usually grazing you, with 1 or 2 damage "bleeding through" the armor's DT (unless they've scrapped that feature), but never more, so that you can as it were tell from the beginning of a battle that with a certain tactic always sustain, say, 20-25 damage.

 

[Infinitron]

I never played Game of Thrones but heared that time slowing was there. Does it work ell? Because last slowtime I recall was X-Com: Buereau and it was impossible to experience it properly due to overall faggotry.

I haven't played that, but isn't that more like the slow motion in Witcher 2, ie basically just for giving you time to select things from the consolized radial menu? Those are action games, so generally you're supposed to be able to deal with combat that's very hectic without slowing it down.

 

[Athelas]

The pause option in RTwP is there to ostensibly simulate real combat. In real-life you wouldn't need to waste a turn to change your mind about who or how to attack in the midst of battle, ergo you can pause to issue orders. It's not a supposed to be a mimicry of turn-based combat.

 

[Arkeus]

What I meant by the example was that once you got PA, small fry enemies missed or did 0 damage 99% of the time, making you feel like a tank, and 1% of the time they'd have one of those wacky armor bypassing eye super crits, and you'd be dead in one blow. So that you'd at the same time feel immensely powerful and weak enemies always had a (small) chance of taking you out at any time.

Ah, well i feel that if you are a low-level guy with High-gear that might be what it does. E.G, most enemies won't penetrate your DT or will mainly graze you, but if you end up against high-accuracy enemies with DT-piercing weapons, suddenly you realize they are still the same level as you are.

PE will probably end up at the other far end of the scale, with weak enemies usually grazing you, with 1 or 2 damage "bleeding through" the armor's DT (unless they've scrapped that feature), but never more, so that you can as it were tell from the beginning of a battle that with a certain tactic always sustain, say, 20-25 damage.

Yeah, unless one gets lucky and does crit you and so on.

OTOH, this is a infinity engine spiritual successor, and well, can you see a party of lvl14 having trouble with a party of lvl8 without some havy tactical use for the lvl8 or some really luck rolls, all gears being appropriate for their respective level?

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

E.G, most enemies won't penetrate your DT or will mainly graze you

I remember Infinitron saying that there was always a percentage coming through the DT. Not sure if that's still in though.

Yeah, unless one gets lucky and does crit you and so on.

But that's the whole point: if your attack is 5 lower than the opponent's defense, it's impossible to get a crit. So "getting lucky" is precisely something a deterministic system like PE's is trying to ban out almost entirely. Gone with the almighty RNG, and so on.

Edit: Also, even if you crit, it's just going to be an extra 50% of damage, not the multiplications and knockouts or cripplings you'd have in games like the FO's, so even if lower level enemies "strike lucky" it won't matter much in the end.

 

[Grunker]

Codex arguing that apples are objectively better than oranges again, eh?

 

[Infinitron]

I remember Infinitron saying that there was always a percentage coming through the DT. Not sure if that's still in though.

Not a percentage, a minimum amount of damage.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Oh right, are we sure that's still in, because I didn't see it in the last DT-formula Sawyer used at SA (the one Sensuki posted a while back).

 

[Infinitron]

Oh right, are we sure that's still in, because I didn't see it in the last DT-formula Sawyer used at SA (the one Sensuki posted a while back).

Not sure, but it seems contrary to Sawyer's design philosophy to allow a character to be completely immune to somebody's damage. Why reduce missing just to allow you to effectively "dodge" all blows anyway?

 

[Arkeus]

But that's the whole point: if your attack is 5 lower than the opponent's defense, it's impossible to get a crit. So "getting lucky" is precisely something a deterministic system like PE's is trying to ban out almost entirely. Gone with the almighty RNG, and so on.

Edit: Also, even if you crit, it's just going to be an extra 50% of damage, not the multiplications and knockouts or cripplings you'd have in games like the FO's, so even if lower level enemies "strike lucky" it won't matter much in the end.

This is why i said high-accuracy with DT-piercing weapons. If the guy in front has been pushing everything toward his accuracy and his crit-chance as well as having armor-piercing ability and weapons, it will hurt.

Likewise, it's pretty damn sure there will be Talents for increasing crit damage.

Basically, it's a question of "the enemy is six level above you, this just means his lowest defense is now the equivalent of the highest defense of an enemy of your level". This means that if you specialize in their weakness, you should have 'normal' odds of hitting them normally and you could also crit/spells/etc.

 

[tuluse]

Yeah, unless one gets lucky and does crit you and so on.

OTOH, this is a infinity engine spiritual successor, and well, can you see a party of lvl14 having trouble with a party of lvl8 without some havy tactical use for the lvl8 or some really luck rolls, all gears being appropriate for their respective level?

If your defense is high enough above your opponents attack it becomes mathematically impossible for them to crit.

Codex arguing that apples are objectively better than oranges again, eh?

Fuck you, oranges suck. In fact all citrus sucks. Can you make an orange pie? No. Q.E.D.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

This is why i said high-accuracy with DT-piercing weapons. If the guy in front has been pushing everything toward his accuracy and his crit-chance as well as having armor-piercing ability and weapons, it will hurt.

Likewise, it's pretty damn sure there will be Talents for increasing crit damage.

Basically, it's a question of "the enemy is six level above you, this just means his lowest defense is now the equivalent of the highest defense of an enemy of your level". This means that if you specialize in their weakness, you should have 'normal' odds of hitting them normally and you could also crit/spells/etc.

I was mainly thinking about the other way round, trash mobs of level 1 goblins and trying to figure out how their "strategic nuisance" to your 20-level party would game out. If the min damage going through armor is still in, then the scenario would as far as I can tell be as I described earlier: they'd usually hit/graze for 1-2 damage. Not enough to take you out, but maybe enough to drain your resources?

 

[Arkeus]

Honestly, i don't see the place of level 1 goblins being a threat to a level 20 party in an IE game, so i'll just say "you kill all of them before they do more than a couple of health damage (not stamina) at most".

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Honestly, i don't see the place of level 1 goblins being a threat to a level 20 party in an IE game, so i'll just say "you kill all of them before they do more than a couple of health damage (not stamina) at most".

Kobold's could become a nuisance in the BG's, but they were less of one because if you properly guarded your casters, they'd usually miss your frontliners. They could become more of a "strategic nuisance" if they usually graze.

 

[tuluse]

Guys keep the actual game in mind, it's going to around level 12 and the players are expected to have less power than a level 12 DnD character at that level.

If/when they make a sequel or expand the game, I doubt they're going to bother putting level 1 encounters in for your level 12 party.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Guys keep the actual game in mind, it's going to around level 12 and the players are expected to have less power than a level 12 DnD character at that level.

If/when they make a sequel or expand the game, I doubt their going to bother putting level 1 encounters in for your level 12 party.

Sometimes it's nice to just roll a bunch of scrubs in an otherwise difficult dungeon.

What else could he mean?

 

[tuluse]

Enemies around levels 5-6? Do you remember fighting any Kobalds or Xvarts in BG2? There were still fights where you rolfstomped.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Do you remember fighting any Kobalds or Xvarts in BG2?

I remember fighting relatively many Hobgoblins, goblins and kobolds in BG2.

 

[Jasede]

I don't.

 

[Arkeus]

I don't.

When you go in the sewers where lilacorn is you have a fair numbers of Hobgoblins and Kobolds, though those can do spells like hold person and so on, so are probably level 5+, and you are 'supposed' to be around level 8 then.

And, yes, those are stomp fights.

EDIT: oh, and there is obviously the kobolds in Irenicus' dungeon... lol.

 

[Crispy]

Is this the largest thread in Codex' history?

 

[Delterius]

Is this the largest thread in Codex' history?

And the game's still in pre production.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

I don't.

ok.

 

[Hormalakh]

http://hostedmedia.reimanpub.com/TOH/Images/Photos/37/exps12444_CD10117C26.jpg

get your citrus hatin' ass out of here tuluse.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Yeah, unless one gets lucky and does crit you and so on.

OTOH, this is a infinity engine spiritual successor, and well, can you see a party of lvl14 having trouble with a party of lvl8 without some havy tactical use for the lvl8 or some really luck rolls, all gears being appropriate for their respective level?

If your defense is high enough above your opponents attack it becomes mathematically impossible for them to crit.

Codex arguing that apples are objectively better than oranges again, eh?

Fuck you, oranges suck. In fact all citrus sucks. Can you make an orange pie? No. Q.E.D.

Ah...but can you inject vodka into a bunch of apples in order to avoid the long lines and absurd over-charging for mid-strength beer when you go to the cricket? No, no you can't. The orange may be weak at low skill levels, but with the right character build it fills rolls that the apple just can't match.