Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity [BETA RELEASED, GO TO THE NEW THREAD]

[The Bishop]

This problem is overrated and overblown.

Indeed, the problem is very minor, but then the solution to it is appropriately minor and straightforward as well. As for tags spoiling the contents of the lines themselves - you can make tags appear on demand instead of being on constantly. In fact that's how I'd prefer it to work in PE.

 

[LivingOne]

I haven't watched it yet so not sure if there's anything new.

Edit:mostly not except some ideas near the end for AP2.

 

[Roguey]

Oh did he say successor and not clone? TBH I never even watched it.

Your playthroughs do not count as you have not produced a Let's Play for Josh to watch so he can "see" how you play the game, because otherwise you do not matter

I'm also starting to think I should masquerade as a retard who does not understand the P:E systems in order to get more answers lol.

Josh is aware Icewind Dale errs on the side of easy for experienced players for the most part, that's why Burial Isle and Icewind Dale 2 have more difficulty overall and partially why he considers IWD2 the better game despite obnoxious content in nearly every chapter.

That being said some of the things he did with spiders in level 2 of Dragon's Eye were fun but not fun enough to be worth a mention in my article.

 

[Sensuki]

I have actually never finished IWD2. I think the farthest I got was the Underdark which was hmm, 2009? I actually lost my save when I was transporting my 500GB HDD in my bag to share some movies with a friend in Melb, only to find that upon reaching his house that it was doing the click of death. I have re-installed it since then but it's probably the worst IE game as far as aging & compatibility goes. Graphical glitches that are difficult to fix, Flickering mouse cursor (unfixable?), lots of other issues. The lack of 3D also makes it require some DirectDraw hacks to work properly (graphically) otherwise you get black squares on tiles and on inventory items etc (and yes you don't have to quote about them cutting the 3D part, I know about that). The IE games also had an issue with my previous sound card as well which caused the music and sound to crackle/distort so I had to play with the game sound off.

I will probably have to finish it before Eternity comes out, I should have the time next year.

 

[Jedi Exile]

Hmm, I didn't have any issues with IWD2, but I too didn't finish it - I don't like dungeon crawlers.

 

[Arkeus]

Here's the difference between playing with the rep tags on and off.



[Benevolent] "You seem to have learned your lesson. There's no need to involve the guards. Just don't do it again."



vs.



"You seem to have learned your lesson. There's no need to involve the guards. Just don't do it again."



As in the IE games, what you pick is exactly what your character says/does.

 

[Roguey]

I have re-installed it since then but it's probably the worst IE game as far as aging & compatibility goes.

That would be Planescape Torment. After using the ddraw fix I didn't have any problems.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And tags easily can defeat purpose of line too. Imagine you are reading a book, and a character is trying to make a joke. And instead of reading it and "getting" (because you've read the book, you know characters and the setting) it and laughing, you first read "[Joke]" before it.
Same with complex things like, say, sarcasm (which I myself often don't get). It's a lot better to somehow make player know that he is speaking sarcastically because of context, than by placing "[Sarcasm]" tag near it.

But in a book the story is set in stone so if you don't immediately "get" the intention of the sentence, it's not such a big problem. But when you are talking to a NPC who did something naughty, you probably want to know if "Do that again, and I'll kill you" is meant to be playful or genuinely threatening (while it should be easy to know which is it if the PC has a defined personality, a blank slate could mean either)

 

[Delterius]

A joke might also be interpreted as such because of the characters involved in a particular situation. A rebellious cynic might sound sarcastic with words not unlike those of a devout expressing his religiousness. How can that be preserved when one of these characters, the most important one no less, is completely open to interpretation? The more expansive the dialogue trees and, thus, the greater potential for roleplaying allowed, I think, only enbiggens the necessity for mechanical transparency. Especially if there are at all pretentions to sustain the player's agency in playing his own character.

 

[Shadenuat]

you probably want to know if "Do that again, and I'll kill you" is meant to be playful or genuinely threatening

No good writer is dumb enough to use such a blunt phrase for something else than it's standard meaning, unless the context is crystal clear. And no writer will fuck up your character if he is a blank state, because blank state characters almost always use neutral speech. They won't be blank state if they had 3-4 personalities constantly fighting each other inside dialogue with some obfuscated lines just to terrorize the player. Unless you're playing a blank state Malkavian.

 

[Sensuki]

I have re-installed it since then but it's probably the worst IE game as far as aging & compatibility goes.

That would be Planescape Torment. After using the ddraw fix I didn't have any problems.

PS:T actually works fine for me, requires less fixes than IWD2 and doesn't have a constantly flickering cursor.

 

[Roguey]

PS:T actually works fine for me, requires less fixes than IWD2 and doesn't have a constantly flickering cursor.

Since ddrawfix didn't exist when I played it, I had to play it in a tiny window with D3Dwindower because it would either slow down or crash whenever I cast certain spells.

 

[Sensuki]

That is determination. I switch to a CRT monitor when playing the IE games.

BG1 in 640x480 @ 160Hz looks pretty good.

The other games I use 1280x800 @ 120Hz

 

[MicoSelva]

I have actually never finished IWD2. (...)
I will probably have to finish it before Eternity comes out, I should have the time next year.

Don't bother. Not worth it, IMO. I was pretty disappointed with IWD1, but I still remember it much better than IWD2, despite playing the latter more recently. I'm not into dungeon crawlers much (although I loved KoTC, so it may be case of quality rather than genre), so that may color my opinion.

 

[Infinitron]

I've never understood the IWD2 haters. Better pacing of combat and non-combat content alone makes it superior to IWD1. Not to mention D&D 3E, dialogue skills, etc. The game has everything it needs to be more popular with the Codex than its predecessor. WTF?

I suspect it comes down to people being disappointed that Herve made Black Isle release a rushed sequel that nobody asked for, instead of Fallout 3 and Baldur's Gate 3. In a year when Neverwinter Nights was already a huge disappointment, it was adding insult to injury.

 

[Sensuki]

the IWD2 implementation of 3E is worse than the BG implementation of AD&D 2.5. Hands down. After playing 3E for a few years then playing IWD2 it's like oh ... this is terrible compared to P&P.

 

[MicoSelva]

I don't really like either IWD game, but as far as I consider IWD1's plot to be really bad (and don't even get me started on the pacing; linear dungeon crawling x5, OMG the guy you work for is evil [plot twist!], more dungeon crawling) at least I remember it. With IWD2 I have problems recalling anything but the broadest scope (some demons attacking for some reason).

The combat might have been enjoyable. Maybe? I don't really remember. I do not enjoy combat for combat's sake in RPGs and IWDs did not give me enough context for most of the encounters to make me care. Too much of the games felt like filler, which I had to slog through to get to the good parts. I remember very few good parts from IWD1 and none from IWD2.

Yeah, ok, IWD2 had the superior character system, but so what if the content was not interesting enough to make use of it.

Again, I don't like dungeon crawlers and especially linear ones, so my opinion should be taken with that in mind. But my 'gut' feeling is that there is just not enough interesting stuff in either IWD game. My main source of entertainment in them was giving all characters in my party really stupid names and goofy voices and enjoying the random banter that ensued.

For me IWD = NWN OC. IWD2 is even below that. I don't consider my time with these games wasted (that honor goes to games like Bioshock or Kane & Lynch), but I probably won't ever touch them again.

 

[Shadenuat]

Dungeon design, reused assets, meh plot... IWD2 felt chaotic and even more linear than IWD1. But I think the biggest thing was something which is hard to capture with words - the mood. IWD1 simply had better mood with it's classic D&D adventure and characters. It doesn't matter if you add smart skill checks into your dialogue lines, if lines themselves are boring to read.

I also think HoW was a pretty great little piece of writing. That little quest for rose made of ice, the Seer and her banter with Icasaracht, and Icasaracht herself, I always loved it, every playthrough.
Main campaign also had some nice touches, like backtracking quest to learn fate of Larrel's daughter or finding things to restore Hand gardens. The whole Belhithet/crystal stuff was pretty stock and boring though. But dungeons were fine.

 

[Infinitron]

I didn't find the Legion of the Chimera plot to be so boring. Certainly more interesting than a stock demonic incursion.

Edward R Murrow was really annoyed by the gratuitous callbacks and cameos from the first game. In a more serious game, those things would have annoyed me too, but Icewind Dale isn't so serious. They're just excuses for more wacky dungeoneering.

With IWD2 I have problems recalling anything but the broadest scope (some demons attacking for some reason).

Uh, perhaps you've confused the two games?

 

[DraQ]

Pointless example. Both player and designer assume protagonist always speaks what is written - the truth, that's why Truth/Lie are the only tags which you must use if you want to give player an option of doing opposite.

Not really. You can also say the exact same thing in very different tone for very different meanings and reactions.

 

[Athelas]

You could implement a charisma stat check to see if you can lie convincingly.

 

[Sensuki]

The only thing about Demons in IWD1 that you know of until right at the end is in the intro movie - which I might add, is one of my favourite introductions ever.

The illustration + music + great narration = win.

I *sincerely* fucking hope that Eternity uses the same style.

 

[Roguey]

I've never understood the IWD2 haters. Better pacing of combat and non-combat content alone makes it superior to IWD1. Not to mention D&D 3E, dialogue skills, etc. The game has everything it needs to be more popular with the Codex than its predecessor. WTF?

As mentioned in my article, every chapter except 1 and 6 has something really obnoxious about it whereas with IWD the worst you can say is that it's just kind of mindless overall.

Then again a bunch of people here prefer kotor2 to 1 even though it's the same deal there, the difference being that instead of having better combat it only has better writing.

 

[Infinitron]

I've never understood the IWD2 haters. Better pacing of combat and non-combat content alone makes it superior to IWD1. Not to mention D&D 3E, dialogue skills, etc. The game has everything it needs to be more popular with the Codex than its predecessor. WTF?

As mentioned in my article, every chapter except 1 and 6 has something really obnoxious about it whereas with IWD the worst you can say is that it's just kind of mindless overall.

Then again a bunch of people here prefer kotor2 to 1 even though it's the same deal there, the difference being that instead of having better combat it only has better writing.

On the other hand, you also think IWD2 > IWD1.

 

[MicoSelva]

With IWD2 I have problems recalling anything but the broadest scope (some demons attacking for some reason).

Uh, perhaps you've confused the two games?

No, that's just how I remember Legion of Chimera. I know there was some half-breed stuff thrown in there, but I wouldn't be able to recall the details if it could save my life. Since I have played this game in 2005 and then read the LP here on The Codex in 2010, not being able to remember any details means either the game is pretty forgettable or I have a really bad memory. It could be the latter option, but since I had a similar experience with IWD1 (played it on release; later read an LP here) and I remember it pretty well, it has to be the former.

EDIT:

MicoSelva
I would claim that the character system in Iwd2 is not better because of any particular design decision. But rather because 3.* is simply that more complex than d&d advanced.

Agreed.

Even NWN1 a highly mediocre game does it better and has more checks than Iwd2/nwn2 Oc combined.

Here I'm not so sure, but I have not finished NWN2 yet.