People News ObsidiLeaks: The Chris Avellone May of Rage Archive

[Latro]

Chris I just remembered you're a big Chrono Trigger fan, what are your thoughts on Chrono Cross?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

My point about the symbol-based cover is that for everyone who had already bought BG1 and BG2, anything similar to those games on the shelf made/distributed by the same company would likely cause a similar level of interest, if not more.

Yeah, that certainly make sense. Having a similar design would give the cover that extra juice of brand recognition.

 

[Bohr]

It would matter far less now, for sure - back in the "old days," though, shopping in stores was a large % of how you chose what games to buy - you'd go to the local game store, see what was on the shelves, and if it interested you, you'd pick it up, check the back of the box for screenshots, then decide if it was worth it. I think the orange cover caught the eye, but it was off-putting and I didn't think it would encourage people to buy the game or take a closer look. I freely admit I could be wrong. Digital distribution has definitely changed that part of the purchasing process, although the cover art is still important and people still browse in game stores.

My point about the symbol-based cover is that for everyone who had already bought BG1 and BG2, anything similar to those games on the shelf made/distributed by the same company would likely cause a similar level of interest, if not more. But again, it's not like I have the metrics (no one does), that's just my opinion.

Agree with this. In all honesty I almost missed out on Torment when it first came out, as someone who'd been automatically buying D&D games since Pool of Radiance and who had enjoyed BG, the cover made me think it was something different entirely. Which it was, obviously, but I nearly didn't buy it and a more BG-style cover, perhaps with some game/planescape-related images would have made it an instant guaranteed buy.

Actually pretty hard to explain these days where we know so much about games long before they are even released.

 

[Azarkon]

Guido had less impact on PST on anyone he mentioned vs. his face on the cover of the game (which he orchestrated without telling anyone), and it's something that can be checked with metrics. I would have gladly replaced Guido with a clone of any of the three people he disparaged (even me, and I'd have killed the clone quickly to prevent it from taking over my life), and the game would have been far better for it. I thought his comments on the Deadfire name for Pillars 2 was hilarious, and a perfect example for how he acted at Interplay.

Chris Avellone, in the 2007 interview you did with the watch, you said:

RPGWatch: How was work divided and who did what (areas/NPCs/dialogue)?

Chris Avellone: I wrote a first draft and character briefs of most of the characters in the game (I’d say 75%, a sample of one of these dialogue briefs is attached - Ravel_First_Draft.doc), and then designers for individual areas would script and revise them, taking them to something along the lines of Ravel_Final.doc. Probably a poor example, since I wrote Ravel from start to the finished template, but it should give you a sense of scope, and taking it from first draft to final copy was no small task.

I probably did the most writing, but Colin, Warner, Maldonado, Bokkes, Jason Suinn, Deiley, and others all made original characters as well as revising the suggested ones. Suinn, for example, did a lot of the core work for the Alley of Dangerous Angles and a number of original characters (and item descriptions), and Warner and Colin hammered away at Curst. In general, each designer took a portion of the game and fleshed it out.

This statement, along with the interview as a whole, is basically treated as the gospel where Planescape: Torment's development credits are concerned. Over the years, we've seen Colin McComb's stars fade from grace, while the other writers on your list are barely ever mentioned, in relation to the game. I guess what I want to ask is - are there any changes that you'd make today to what you said back in 2007, or any particular writer you'd like to give a shout out to, that you think the industry and the fans haven't appreciated enough for their work on Planescape: Torment?

 

[Elwro]

Banks himself said in an interview that the Culture would be his own ideal utopian future he'd wish to live in. Without derailing the thread further I recommend his non-SF work if you haven't already read any, especially The Wasp Factory (you can see where he gets this macabre streak as a feature of his writing) and The Crow Road.

thanks, I haven't read Crow Road. I recommend Complicity.

 

[norolim]

OK, I finished reading through all the shitstorm. It took me two days, during which I neglected my job, but it was worth it. And I've got to say... damn. Is it safe to assume Chris has started the #metoo movement of game development? Or do we need to wait for the first round of revelations?

Jokes aside, Chris Avellone you must have gargantuan balls, man. I just hope you really know what you're doing, because this could lead to serious trouble. You admitted there is email evidence for all your claims about Obsidian, but if I were you, I'd also keep tabs on all the things you're saying here and in other related Q&As. If nothing else, just to make sure you are being consistent. If someone wants to show you in bad light, they will use any contradiction or inconsistency they can find.

 

[Zanzoken]

Chris Avellone how did you like working on an event-driven story with FTL compared to the more traditional narratives you had worked on in the past?

A few other games have taken this approach with good success (CK2, Mount & Blade, Battle Brothers) but I think there is still a lot of untapped potential in this type of storytelling.

 

[Chris Avellone]

Chris Avellone you must have gargantuan balls, man.

It's not balls, I’m not brave for saying any of this. Normally, in the game industry (or any industry), there’s always the fear of speaking up because the people are in control of your job and your livelihood – sometimes even after you leave. Silence, threats, fear of future unemployment, and concealment of bad or unethical practices isn’t something that makes the industry or employee’s lives any better – it’s often done for the benefit of a few. Many employees never even know what’s going on until layoffs happen.

I took certain steps to make fear, threats, and control a non-issue, so it’s not really bravery as much as freedom. Before saying anything, I made sure it could be confirmed (and if evidence is deleted or can’t be found, that’s even better), that I was prepared for any response, and I was 100% determined to fight it. I fought it while I was there, and I’ll fight it after I leave.

I will say all of this could have been avoided if these practices hadn’t been done in the first place – I mean, seriously, you don’t have to try to hire your underage kids – aside from being illegal, it’s unethical. If the attempt had been successful, it was something that could have done serious damage to the entire company, and it was being done for the benefit of a very few.

What made some of the practices worse was Obsidian management would make the exact opposite stand in public (ex: continually blaming the publisher for incidents the developer caused to generate sympathy, like they did with Microsoft and others that got torpedo’d by seeming revelations – although I think Feargus was banking on Microsoft not giving a shit what was said or even notice what was being said).

The Stormlands cancellation got latched onto b/c it’s a good underdog story that transitioned into a good crowdsourcing story, but it’s not the truth. And I'm sure many ex-Stormlands devs who were laid off or quit could attest to that - but they still wouldn't know everything.

Also, speaking out about publishers also jeopardized the entire company as well and did hurt our future prospects (Feargus was told by publishers to stop broadcasting information, and that did jeopardize our relationships during the pitch process). They rarely worked with the same publisher twice. I do (even ones Obsidian used to work with), and I do so often – and there’s a good reason for it.

The industry’s not perfect, but if you're in upper management and rely on fear, concealment, or enforced silence to protect bad behavior, that needs to change, and it needs to be called out – either internally, and if that fails, externally. I do think that once something’s brought to light, people will start examining patterns and begin to question similar behaviors.

I don’t have any issues with the developers at Obsidian or the games they make at all. But I don’t think being silent on these issues or not raising awareness of them helps either – if anything, it helps ensure they stop.

There’s much more to this, and as I’ve said, everything I’ve said is only 30%, and there’s unlikely to be anymore unless there is a response from other quarters, either Obsidian, another company, or from individuals, at which point the other 70% will come out in stages depending on which response and from what quarter. I'm happy to back up or testify to any claims from other parties, and I've said as much to the people and companies involved.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Hey, when are you going to spill some beans on Bethesda?
Or get someone to do it.

I don't want to believe you actually liked Fallout 3.

 

[ga♥]

Chris Avellone someone else already asked in the mega-thread. Perhaps, you did answer and I did miss it, or maybe you just didn't. So sorry, if I am re-asking the same question. Ever thought about writing a book/whatever? Not for a VG or inspired from it. I'd love to read one.

 

[Bohr]

Wonder if there'll be some damage control out of Obsidian at some point once the PoE release is out of the way, or if they think that'll just fan the flames and prefer to carry on with business as usual

 

[ga♥]

Chris Avellone Also can you officialy forgive me for having pirated PS:T in Annus Domini 2000? I know, you weren't a shareholder of Interplay, but still feel my underage self indirectly contributed to its demise. I bought my original copy years later (2004-2005 IIRC), since it was re-released here in Italy, but I am afraid Black Isle was already dead.

 

[J_C]

Wonder if there'll be some damage control out of Obsidian at some point once the PoE release is out of the way, or if they think that'll just fan the flames and prefer to carry on with business as usual

I doubt Obsidian will do anything. With the exception of a few smaller sites and the german Gamestar, nobody picked up the story, and the more time passes, the less likely they ever will do something. If Obsidian is clever, they just let this to be forgotten.

 

[TheEntitledOne]

So has there been any dex'hideen "social activity" latelly? Any Je Suis Obsidian in sight?

Asking for a friend.

 

[PanteraNera]

If Obsidian is clever, they just let this to be forgotten.

Upper management certainly do not seem to be clever.

 

[Cosmo]

Guido strikes me as someone who's suffering from a mild form of megalomania and paranoia, but even tho PS:T cover perhaps wasn't the best choice from a marketing standpoint, I still consider it not only unique but good from an artistic standpoint as well.

After his failed kickstarters he was behaving like a fucking diva : his attitude after Thorwalla for example (where the idea was sound but he expected the thing founded by the sheer magic of his name) was the equivalent of "NO ONE DESERVES ME !!!"

 

[Lahey]

There’s much more to this, and as I’ve said, everything I’ve said is only 30%, and there’s unlikely to be anymore unless there is a response from other quarters, either Obsidian, another company, or from individuals, at which point the other 70% will come out in stages depending on which response and from what quarter. I'm happy to back up or testify to any claims from other parties, and I've said as much to the people and companies involved.

Those individuals and companies appear to have chosen silence, no? I understand your personal moral code in not speaking for others or dragging them into a position they're not comfortable holding publicly, but if they refuse to speak out on their own behalf and this other '70%' remains in the dark, how does that help them or the industry at large? How do you rationalise this potential outcome against the following:

The industry’s not perfect, but if you're in upper management and rely on fear, concealment, or enforced silence to protect bad behavior, that needs to change, and it needs to be called out – either internally, and if that fails, externally. I do think that once something’s brought to light, people will start examining patterns and begin to question similar behaviors.

I don’t have any issues with the developers at Obsidian or the games they make at all. But I don’t think being silent on these issues or not raising awareness of them helps either – if anything, it helps ensure they stop.

 

[lophiaspis]

Chris Avellone never answers my questions anyway, so I'm just going to update this.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

If you're gonna update it, at least use the faces of all the key figures at Obsidian.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Are you Feargus's underage son?

 

[Cosmo]

I doubt Obsidian will do anything. With the exception of a few smaller sites and the german Gamestar, nobody picked up the story, and the more time passes, the less likely they ever will do something. If Obsidian is clever, they just let this to be forgotten.

Yup, they'll bury their head in the sand and let this thing blow over...
And from the resounding silence and lack of coverage i'd say that's the most probable outcome.

 

[Aemilian]

I doubt Obsidian will do anything. With the exception of a few smaller sites and the german Gamestar, nobody picked up the story, and the more time passes, the less likely they ever will do something. If Obsidian is clever, they just let this to be forgotten.

The gaming 'press' really is an amazing thing to behold. Truly, the 'press' has evolved so much since the 80s.
The scandal allegations are delivered openly for all to see and factcheck. At this very moment journalists should contact people at Obsidian and related publishers, asking them to confirm the allegations or give their work experience. If there aren't any bigger sites doing this, then the whole journalism part of this business should be flushed down the toilette.

Don't forget - these people all did a story about Avellone's statement concerning the missed Metacritic bonus. That was a nothingburger compared to Avellone's sustained carpet bombing campaign against the management. Company mismanagement should be one of the stories these people should be eager to report on if they give a damn about the industry. (lol)

Chris Avellone Is it possible that there is a number of Obsidian employees with close friends in the English-speaking press? Maybe they fear covering the scandal could impact the sales of POE2, hurt the company and their friends at the moment? That could explain the lack of bigger coverage with the exception of Germany. (Or 'journalist' are just bad at their job...)

 

[Infinitron]

I doubt Obsidian will do anything. With the exception of a few smaller sites and the german Gamestar, nobody picked up the story, and the more time passes, the less likely they ever will do something. If Obsidian is clever, they just let this to be forgotten.

The gaming 'press' really is an amazing thing to behold. Truly, the 'press' has evolved so much since the 80s.
The scandal allegations are delivered openly for all to see and factcheck. At this very moment journalists should contact people at Obsidian and related publishers, asking them to confirm the allegations or give their work experience. If there aren't any bigger sites doing this, then the whole journalism part of this business should be flushed down the toilette.

Don't forget - these people all did a story about Avellone's statement concerning the missed Metacritic bonus. That was a nothingburger compared to Avellone's sustained carpet bombing campaign against the management. Company mismanagement should be one of the stories these people should be eager to report on if they give a damn about the industry. (lol)

Chris Avellone Is it possible that there is a number of Obsidian employees with close friends in the English-speaking press? Maybe they fear covering the scandal could impact the sales of POE2, hurt the company and their friends at the moment? That could explain the lack of bigger coverage with the exception of Germany. (Or 'journalist' are just bad at their job...)

Theories about corruption are fun, but this is most likely what happened:

The mainstream press did contact Obsidian. (I know for sure that Jason Schreier from Kotaku did)

They were told Chris' statements were inaccurate but "no further comment for now".

Mainstream press now does not want to report Chris' statements because they might be repeating lies.

It helps that our thread is so over-the-top that it's easy to believe it must be a bunch of crazy nonsense. Chris is behaving in a pretty unprecedented way here.

 

[Big Wrangle]

I wouldn't be surprised if this won't pick up until a year or two later, since that's what happens with most fiascos.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Wait, looks like I missed something else... since when is HugeDick an Obsidian dev? Is that real?

And he's still shit-talking inXile?