Game News Odd Gods, a 90s-themed adventure through spacetime with simultaneous turn-based combat

[dream expert]

So just how death works in every fucking game other than rogue-likes? Why use a specific term like permadeath at all or imply that it's even similar when it's not.

permadeath isnt exclusive to rogue like/lite whatevers. It has been around to describe permanent death, but still save,/laod able, since like fire emblem

Wot? In RL you died and that was it. No reloading. Wth are you referring to?

hate to break this to you because it may be a bit of a shock, but most RPGs in recent years just have your guys standing up and dusting themselves off if they "die" in combat. And even in many of the classics, notably those based on D&D, death is a reversible condition.

I figured as much. But to use the term "Permadeath" is really quite odd if you just mean dead but you can reload. Especially if you're trying to appeal to a 90s kid crowd. I've already heard someone say that permadeath is a "no buy" issue for them because fuck starting from the beginning. Grumpy Grognard , I really think you should clarify this. You don't have to give away spoilers on whatever rez system you have. But at least clarify if you mean ppl are dead but you can reload or if you mean true permadeath like "sorry, no save buddy. Start form beginning".

It becomes even more confusing when you hear the campaign is only 12 hours. Which further reinforces the whole permadeath/no save thought.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

So just how death works in every fucking game other than rogue-likes? Why use a specific term like permadeath at all or imply that it's even similar when it's not.

permadeath isnt exclusive to rogue like/lite whatevers. It has been around to describe permanent death, but still save,/laod able, since like fire emblem

Wot? In RL you died and that was it. No reloading. Wth are you referring to?

hate to break this to you because it may be a bit of a shock, but most RPGs in recent years just have your guys standing up and dusting themselves off if they "die" in combat. And even in many of the classics, notably those based on D&D, death is a reversible condition.

I figured as much. But to use the term "Permadeath" is really quite odd if you just mean dead but you can reload. Especially if you're trying to appeal to a 90s kid crowd. I've already heard someone say that permadeath is a "no buy" issue for them because fuck starting from the beginning. Grumpy Grognard , I really think you should clarify this. You don't have to give away spoilers on whatever rez system you have. But at least clarify if you mean ppl are dead but you can reload or if you mean true permadeath like "sorry, no save buddy. Start form beginning".

It becomes even more confusing when you hear the campaign is only 12 hours. Which further reinforces the whole permadeath/no save thought.

No worries, happy to clarify: you can save and reload.

We don't delete your save or anything. If there's demand for an ironman mode though, we might add it.

 

[Fenix]

C'mon people, just fucking wait a little! And you will see.

 

[dream expert]

Of course u can still reload and prevent hin from dyind

permadeath isnt exclusive to rogue like/lite whatevers. It has been around to describe permanent death, but still save,/laod able, since like fire emblem

I'm serious. What the fuck are you talking about? Permadeath = dead forever. As in no save game. No reload. Nothing. Have you never heard of Nethack or Rogue??

 

[HoboForEternity]

Of course u can still reload and prevent hin from dyind

permadeath isnt exclusive to rogue like/lite whatevers. It has been around to describe permanent death, but still save,/laod able, since like fire emblem

I'm serious. What the fuck are you talking about? Permadeath = dead forever. As in no save game. No reload. Nothing. Have you never heard of Nethack or Rogue??

term evolve and used differently. stop being a tryhard fucktard, arguing rethorics and technicalities will get you nowhere

 

[Grauken]

permadeath had and still has a very clear definition that even the modern roguelike-like or roguelites adhere to (religiously so)

nobody is using permadeath in the sense that you can't revive a character in-game but reload, that's just retarded

 

[HoboForEternity]

permadeath had and still has a very clear definition that even the modern roguelike-like or roguelites adhere to (religiously so)

nobody is using permadeath in the sense that you can't revive a character in-game but reload, that's just retarded

been used loosely since x-com, fire emblem, etc.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Shackleton]

permadeath had and still has a very clear definition that even the modern roguelike-like or roguelites adhere to (religiously so)

nobody is using permadeath in the sense that you can't revive a character in-game but reload, that's just retarded

been used loosely since x-com, fire emblem, etc.

By who? You? If permadeath = you can save and reload then every fucking game that doesn't have you bouncing up at the end of every combat or resurrecting at the nearest bonfire, has permadeath. I'm playing ELEX atm, I'm quicksaving and loading like a bugger with these early combats, are you seriously telling me you'd classify ELEX as having permadeath?

It's hardly 'technicality' to say that permadeath means 'permanently dead', it's just accurate.

As dream expert says, best stay away from that term or you'll simultaneously put off people who don't like permadeath and disappoint people who do.

*EDIT* I can see how it would make sense in a party based game to say that characters that die, stay dead. I'd just not advertise that the game has 'permadeath' or people will jump to the wrong conclusion.

 

[Grumpy Grognard]

Cool, no worries - mea culpa. Updated the feature list text accordingly - we don't want to mislead people.

Spoiler

... I also know a few people developing roguelikes, and honestly, I don't want to piss 'em off

 

[dream expert]

permadeath had and still has a very clear definition that even the modern roguelike-like or roguelites adhere to (religiously so)

nobody is using permadeath in the sense that you can't revive a character in-game but reload, that's just retarded

been used loosely since x-com, fire emblem, etc.

term evolve and used differently. stop being a tryhard fucktard, arguing rethorics and technicalities will get you nowhere

No one is trying to be tryhard anything. It's a very distinct term. It's like trying to argue that water isn't wet. It's just weird.

Few single-player RPGs exhibit death that is truly permanent, as most allow the player to load a previously saved game and continue from the stored position. The subgenre of roguelike games is an exception, where permadeath is a high-value factor of these games. While the player can save their state and continue at a later time, the save file is generally erased or overwritten, preventing the player from restarting at that same state. Players can work around this by backing up save files, but this tactic, called "save scumming" is considered cheating. The use of the permadeath mechanic in roguelikes arose from the namesake of the genre, Rogue. Glenn Wichman and Michael Toy, the developers of the game, initially did not have save capabilities, requiring players to finish the game in one session. When they did add a save feature, they found that players would repeatedly reload a save file to obtain the best results, which was contrary to the game design—which they "wanted to make it realistic"—so they implemented code to wipe the save file on reloading to prevent this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permadeath#In_single-player_video_games

 

[Archibald]

But it does bring up an interesting question I think. How deaths in games like x-com and FE should be called? Many games simply have character auto-resurrecting after each battle or death is merely a phase till you resurrect your character via one tool or another.

 

[dream expert]

I mean what do you want to call it? X-com was completely save scummable. So was Fire Emblem. For most of us that was the norm. Even non RPGs..you died unless you reloaded ur save or you entered the right passwords (aka games like SNEs Star Wars).

EDIT: Permadeath is basically a forced iron man mode. Before roguelikes, I had never experienced true permadeath. It's truly a rare thing.

 

[Grauken]

Whether your chars are automatically resurrected after a battle or you have to manually reload a save, the gameplay isn't significantly different. If you want a term for games where chars are automatically resurrected, it's called decline.

 

[Archibald]

Whether your chars are automatically resurrected after a battle or you have to manually reload a save, the gameplay isn't significantly different.

 

[dream expert]

Whether your chars are automatically resurrected after a battle or you have to manually reload a save, the gameplay isn't significantly different. If you want a term for games where chars are automatically resurrected, it's called decline.

Yah sorry but those are very different mechanics. Permadeath is akin to ironman mode.

 

[Grauken]

I'm agreeing with you?

 

[Ismaul]

Whether your chars are automatically resurrected after a battle or you have to manually reload a save, the gameplay isn't significantly different.

Automatic resurrection means it doesn't matter if you win a combat with some of your party members dying. Dying for good unless you reload means if you want to keep those characters you need to win the fight with no one dying (unless there's resurrect scrolls or shit, but that at least still is a resource you have to manage). Not the same at all.

 

[Grauken]

In theory yes, but from how most people play, the moment one of their chars dies they reload anyway, so the outcome in praxis is the same. In roguelikes, most people who play them actually roll a new character and try again (as save scumming is too much of a hassle and not really worth it), so the death is actually sticking for the most part.

 

[Ismaul]

You don't get it. The requirements for success in a fight are different. Automatic resurrection means only one of your party members needs to survive the fight for success. That makes it easier than requiring that all members survive.

 

[Grauken]

ups, you're right, it didn't register, but you're completely right

 

[Country_Gravy]

I think permadeath means 3 pages of morons arguing about permadeath. At least this feels like the thread has gone permadeath.

 

[hello friend]

nuuu

permadeath means thread is in retardoland