On Fanboys

[Revasser]

So, yes, Balor is being sort of a fanboi against religion...andyone who claims they know it all is just full of shit, and if you believe it is so blindly then you are making the same mistake he fundamentalists make.

Atheism is NOT believing that god(s) do not exist - it's NOT using theory of existance of god(s) to explain everything.

Again, anyone heard of Occam's Razor out here?

Anyway, let's keep such discussions of RPG forum.
If you want to discss religion - please create a topic at General discussion.

Errr, yes, I have. When used in the context of god, it basically states that since god is unnecessary for the existence and continuation of the universe, it's probable that it does not exist.

But then I've always though spirituality was beyond the realms of science. Trying to use science to prove/disprove the existence of the spiritual cheapens them both.

But yes, religious debate really has no place in the RPG section. Seriously, though, Balor, if you're into religious debate, you should check out the General forums over at Nation States, if you haven't already.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Balor, you need a new dictionary. Yours has a completely wrong definition of atheism.

We can best determine what fanboyism with relative examples.

Non-fanboy: X is shit.
Fanboy: You're a fucktard.

Non-fanboy: X is shit.
Non-fanboy: X is not shit because...

Now something more specific...

Codexer: Looks like Oblivion will be a bigger step backward than Morrowind.
Fanboy: You are just biased. And stupid. And a nerd.

Codexer: Looks like Oblivion will be a bigger step backward than Morrowind.
Fan: A lot of these changes are either insignificant or beneficial, and are more than outweighed by the stuff we agree seems improved.

 

[Micmu]

Fanboy: You are just biased. And stupid. And a nerd.

You forgot about "you have no life and no girlfriend, you hater!". That's the best stuff IMO.

 

[Data4]

This has basically been said, but just because I like seeing my words in print, I think a fanboy is someone who is so full of what they believe that it's impossible for them to at least acknowledge that someone else may believe differently, and automatically labels those with an opposing viewpoint negatively.

I'll give you an example. I don't like gay people in general. Am I a homophobe? Nope. I just don't like gay people, kind of like how I don't like rap music. I stay away from situations where I'm not exposed to the things I don't like.

Now, after reading that, if you're about to write a reply blasting me for being a closed-minded son of a bitch, or fundy, or whatever, you're probably a fanboy. Why? Because you can't accept that a person can dislike something without screaming "OOOHH!!! TEH HATEAR!!!1111"

-D4

 

[bryce777]

Well, they would be more sensible to bash you - usually it's more like "Man, I am tired of these rpg light games" then "Oh, you nolife fucking homo loser. You don't even have a girlfriend because you are such a lame ass nerd. You think you are so smart!"

 

[pernat]

Ultimate fanboy is when all in all rather intelligent person posts on a RPG message board, that TES3 Morrowind acctually has no bugs to speak of. That`s just leaves me defenseless.

 

[Data4]

Well, they would be more sensible to bash you - usually it's more like "Man, I am tired of these rpg light games" then "Oh, you nolife fucking homo loser. You don't even have a girlfriend because you are such a lame ass nerd. You think you are so smart!"

So what you're saying is that there's justification for fanboyism? You say "sensible" like it's common knowledge that my particular dislike is bash-worthy. Yet if someone is all about how the PS3 is going to "pwn" the XB360 just because they're a Gates hater, that makes them a fanboy.

Fanboys are so close-minded, and so attached to the hive mentality of their fellow drones in fanboyism that they become deluded into thinking their way is right NO MATTER FUCKING WHAT. Furthermore, they lack the mental faculties to comprehend that it's possible to go against the the tenets of the hive without being evil incarnate.

That's basically how it is with hardcore ESF drones who take a peek in here. They're too stupid to see through the over-the-top cynicism and understand that all most anyone here wants is a RPG that engages, rather than insults our intelligence. It's hard to have that kind of discernment when all you're able to process is "They're talking bad about Oblivion, therefore they are haters and dumb". Of course, what can you expect from people who couldn't even find Caius Cossades?

-D4

 

[bryce777]

Well, they would be more sensible to bash you - usually it's more like "Man, I am tired of these rpg light games" then "Oh, you nolife fucking homo loser. You don't even have a girlfriend because you are such a lame ass nerd. You think you are so smart!"

So what you're saying is that there's justification for fanboyism? You say "sensible" like it's common knowledge that my particular dislike is bash-worthy. Yet if someone is all about how the PS3 is going to "pwn" the XB360 just because they're a Gates hater, that makes them a fanboy.

Fanboys are so close-minded, and so attached to the hive mentality of their fellow drones in fanboyism that they become deluded into thinking their way is right NO MATTER FUCKING WHAT. Furthermore, they lack the mental faculties to comprehend that it's possible to go against the the tenets of the hive without being evil incarnate.

That's basically how it is with hardcore ESF drones who take a peek in here. They're too stupid to see through the over-the-top cynicism and understand that all most anyone here wants is a RPG that engages, rather than insults our intelligence. It's hard to have that kind of discernment when all you're able to process is "They're talking bad about Oblivion, therefore they are haters and dumb". Of course, what can you expect from people who couldn't even find Caius Cossades?

-D4

You have the right to like what you want to, but the bashings of these fanboys are totally irrelevant to reality.

They might say you are a homophobe. that doesn't mean it's so, but it would at least be a conclusion that is plausible, and there are people who are homophobes who are really somewhat gay and lash out in order to stay in the closet.

That you are a homosexual elitist for not playing gameboy is just insane, though.

 

[Tintin]

And what about the opposite of fanboys? Actual haters? For instane, truekaiser, who has almost never spoken a positive or neutral word about Bethesda to my knowledge? Is that not also a problem?

 

[Revasser]

And what about the opposite of fanboys? Actual haters? For instane, truekaiser, who has almost never spoken a positive or neutral word about Bethesda to my knowledge? Is that not also a problem?

It's like Communism and Fascism! Opposite ends of the spectrum, and they hate each other, but they both basically suck in the same ways, yes?

 

[Balor]

Opposite ends of the spectrum, and they hate each other, but they both basically suck in the same ways, yes?

Mwhahaha! It's like Blood War.
Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil in a struggle to the death :D.
...
Well, talking about haters.
Of course, mindless hating is one thing, meaning you only see negative aspects w/o seeing the positive (or failing to acknowledge them, more likely), and constantly repeating "this game suck, because it's incarnation of suck, period!"... yet being aware of the positive sides of the game (posh graphics, for instance), but talking only about negative aspects of it is not being a hater.

That's, for instance, what beta-testers do .
They mail the developers bugs, complains, suggestions... why? Because it shows developers that users find some features of the game lacking, bugged, etc. If they will never know it, it will never get fixed.

So, if you post only negative feedback about the game, yet come up with ideas how to make them better, and generally being constructive, you cannot be qualified as a hater.
Because you care for the game, perhaps even more then some fanboys, but have enough brains to identify lacking features and bugs in it, and come up with suggestions how to fix it.

One Post like "This feature sucks, it would be much better like this and this" worth 1kk posts like "OMG! This gaem roxx!!1".
Simply because the former contain some meaningful information (it may be false, but it's information nonetheless) yet the latter may consist entirely of emoticons and that will change nothing - there is no sense in it.

Btw, a nice conclusion to all this:
Fanboys are member who's posts can be replaced by emoticons like " :D " - and without losing any meaningful information... when I comes to subject of their fanboism, I mean.
When they see some different oppinions about their idol, their posts can be represented like “ and :evil: ”.

Haters are members who's posts can be replaced by emoticons like “ and :evil: ” - also without changing anything.

________
@ TheGreatGodPan
Umm... can you give me your “correct” description of atheism, then?
If it even remotely sounds like "Believing that God does not exist", though - prepare to be gutted and hanged out to dry.

 

[Kuato]

Well, naming someone an idiot because, well, he's an obvious idiot has nothing to do with fanboysm.
Well, Arcanum had a whole lot of problems (expecially if you tried to play as a 'mechanical'-type), but sucks because it sold poorly?

P:T was also not exactly a bestseller. So was Fallouts. It does not mean that those games suck.

You would be surprised by the actual sales data, Arcanum actually sold really well for the demographic especially when you factor the cost of the develpoment and Troika actuallly made royalties so it was definutely doing pretty good!!, what is more surprising is despite its success at sales Sierra decided against making a sequel in favor of more mainstream action type games I heard they even wanted to shoehorn arcanum into a first person shooter at some point. lol

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Is there any place on the web that has reliable sales data on games? That would be interesting.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

I'll give you an example. I don't like gay people in general. Am I a homophobe? Nope. I just don't like gay people, kind of like how I don't like rap music. I stay away from situations where I'm not exposed to the things I don't like.

I think you are confusing denotation and connotation. If you have an unexplained aversion to something, take the latin root, add phobia and that's what you have. If it's the reverse, you add philia. Some people are creeped out by spiders and snakes, they have arachnophobia and ophidiophobia. I get weirded out by the same thing as you, and that makes us homophobes. Avoiding exposure to things that creep you out is the norm when it comes to phobias. Rap is a different beast. I don't get the heebie-jeebies from it, more like the murderous-ragies. I don't think anybody here has jrpg-phobia, bethesda-phobia, action-phobia or what on, just a strong dislike and preference for other games.

@ TheGreatGodPan
Umm... can you give me your “correct” description of atheism, then?
If it even remotely sounds like "Believing that God does not exist", though - prepare to be gutted and hanged out to dry.

From The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :

Atheism \A"the*ism\, n. [Cf. F. ath['e]isme. See Atheist.]
1. The disbelief or denial of the existence of a God, or
supreme intelligent Being.
[1913 Webster]

Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing
above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken
tenderness. --R. Hall.
[1913 Webster]

Atheism and pantheism are often wrongly confounded.
--Shipley.
[1913 Webster]

2. Godlessness.
[1913 Webster]


From WordNet (r) 2.0 :

atheism
n 1: the doctrine or belief that there is no God [syn: godlessness]
[ant: theism]
2: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods

 

[truekaiser]

And what about the opposite of fanboys? Actual haters? For instane, truekaiser, who has almost never spoken a positive or neutral word about Bethesda to my knowledge? Is that not also a problem?

i am not a absolute hater.
i admited the graphics in oblivion look good(though the animations could use alot of work)
though graphics do not make a game good, oblivion looks like it's missing the needed under struture to make it enjoyable.
besides it's one game, thats hardly enough to make a opnion on me.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

They might say you are a homophobe. that doesn't mean it's so

It doesn't?

 

[Section8]

Homophobia is hilarious to me.

"You're afraid of gay people because you're probably gay yourself."

Given that the most dire insult that can be levelled at a homophobe is to call them gay, is anyone surprised that the concept doesn't create tolerance?

At my uni, we have posters that proclaim "Homophobia. It's just plain ugly." It's also an irrational fear, and beyond the conscious control of the phobic. Besides, what's wrong with being afraid of something? It's when you're actively hostile toward something that it becomes a problem.

 

[Jaesun]

Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-&
Function: noun
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

 

[bryce777]

And what about the opposite of fanboys? Actual haters? For instane, truekaiser, who has almost never spoken a positive or neutral word about Bethesda to my knowledge? Is that not also a problem?

i am not a absolute hater.
i admited the graphics in oblivion look good(though the animations could use alot of work)
though graphics do not make a game good, oblivion looks like it's missing the needed under struture to make it enjoyable.
besides it's one game, thats hardly enough to make a opnion on me.

What tintin's tiny mind fails to grasp is that you are hardly starting threads about how lame oblivion is. No one is. On the other hand increasingly ridiculous propaganda/marketing material and sachariny reviews come out every day, but as soon as anyone scoffs at them then they are a 'hater'.

 

[NeutralMilkHotel]

Didn't you make a really stupid topic about how lame oblivion/bethesda is? Yeah.

edit: Ah, here it is: http://rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7464

 

[Data4]

Main Entry: ho·mo·pho·bia
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'fO-bE-&
Function: noun
: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

See, that's the thing... I don't discriminate against gays (not that I can recall an instance where I was in the position to), or fear them. I guess the aversion part is true, because the very idea of a dude sucking another dude's cock makes me want to throw up. It's significant that I mention this because I agree that most outspoken "homophobes" are really closet cases.

Back when we were dating, my wife read up on the gay/straight challenge. Through previous talks, she knew I didn't care for gays, so she pulled the whole "I bet if you look at gay porn, you'll get aroused" bit on me. I accepted the challenge on condition that she did the same with lesbian stuff. So, that afternoon, I got to surf lesbian sites to find some good juicy bits to expose to her, while she found some gay male stuff.

The result? I watched two military types in a 69 position sucking eachother off for a total of 2 seconds before I got ill and gagged. She watched three or four 30 second to one minute clips of lesbians doing basically the same.... without so much as a flinch. Interesting results, there.

Crap, this was about fanboyism, wasn't it?

-D4

 

[One Wolf]

I agree that most outspoken "homophobes" are really closet cases.

or religious zealots.

 

[Tintin]

And what about the opposite of fanboys? Actual haters? For instane, truekaiser, who has almost never spoken a positive or neutral word about Bethesda to my knowledge? Is that not also a problem?

i am not a absolute hater.
i admited the graphics in oblivion look good(though the animations could use alot of work)
though graphics do not make a game good, oblivion looks like it's missing the needed under struture to make it enjoyable.
besides it's one game, thats hardly enough to make a opnion on me.

What tintin's tiny mind fails to grasp is that you are hardly starting threads about how lame oblivion is. No one is. On the other hand increasingly ridiculous propaganda/marketing material and sachariny reviews come out every day, but as soon as anyone scoffs at them then they are a 'hater'.

You're quite a fool, bryce. If you had, you know, maybe reread the sentence one more time (I know it takes a while to grasp the meaning, it's okay) , I said truekaiser was a hater. You know, that guy, truekaiser, who's, um, one person? You notice that there are no other names listed there as hater? It's not a coincidence, buddy! You see, that's right, I intended it to mean, gasp, that truekaiser was really the only one who I considered an absolute hater, *gasp*. So you can see how saying this "but as soon as anyone scoffs at them then they are a 'hater'" you look quite stupid. Unless you consider "anyone" to be truekaiser - which means you yourself are also truekaiser!! BACK TO THE FUTURE!!

Perhaps you should look through some of truekaisers posts about Oblivion, (which are 99% negative unless he is forced to state a positive) and you'll reconsider.

Though, after looking at NeutralMilkHotel's link, I think somebody needs to be added to the list.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Data4: Sounds like you need to watch your wife closely when she's around hot women. Because you might miss something, then be like "Oh crap, could you start over", and she's like "Don't tell me what to do" and then you get in a big argument and then get divorced because she's a lesbian.

one wolf: Do you mean religious zealots are closet cases or homophobes are religious zealots?

 

[HardCode]

She watched three or four 30 second to one minute clips of lesbians doing basically the same.... without so much as a flinch. Interesting results, there.

Crap, this was about fanboyism, wasn't it?

-D4

AND WHAT HAPPENED NEXT!?!?!