On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[oscar]

A, as we have exactly zero experience or knowledge about killing anything other than zebra. Though all we really won was information from this update. If we'd attacked we would have gotten killing experience AND water tech in one foul swoop.

Though tempted by B, because at least it is something new rather than the 2-in-1 our "pragmatism" made us fail to learn last update.

 

[Jick Magger]

The update specifically stated that it took the fish-fuckers "many moons" to get here, which at the very least implies they took a very long time to get here. Assuming this mystery tribe doesn't have the same naval expertise that they did, we can probably rule out them getting here any time soon. So whatever decision we do want to make, I'd imagine we'd have plenty of time to make it and execute it.
Still undecided, myself. This shit's got its merits and demerits. I'm leaning towards A, though. If only because I don't give a shit if we're killed, I'm sick and tired of us being a bunch of babbies. After all, Curufinwe wouldn't of included the option if it wasn't viable...right?
Also, I guess the Wyverns confirm we're definitely not in Kansas anymore. So it'd probably be better off from here if we try and take into account that wherever we are plays by different rules to us.

 

[Tigranes]

A

We'll never get to anything interesting if we keep pussying out of every encounter. We've got enough to think there's a chance, and it's doubtful we'll see much of the wyverns outside their nesting grounds. Bring on the barbarians.

 

[Hirato]

Learning their customs will take a while, but their water knowledge, their rafts and canoes especially may give us an advantage if we have some means of attacking the barbarians from the river.
B also implies that we'd spend at least some time training and preparing after or while integrating them into our tribe - as the fact remains that we'd still have to face the incoming barbarian horde sometime in the near future.

So... I think I'll go with B

 

[Esquilax]

According to the map, we live at Point B. The attacked villagers have told us that they live downriver among the hills. The aggressive tribe that they told us about originates from the forest. If they are to attack us, they would either have to cross the river or go through the narrow pass between the mountain and the river in order to reach us. I don't think that the barbarians have knowledge on building boats, they would probably have been able to chase down and kill anybody who tried to escape during the last raid. Since they didn't do that, we can assume that they are only a threat to us on land. While we'd get crushed in a straight-up fight against them at the moment, if we manage to block the pass (build a wall maybe?) or throw spears at them from our boats, it might significantly even the odds.

 

[Curufinwe]

For Esquilax: you're around 300ish now (not counting the new tribe, but they're in bad shape right now so not counting them for the 'military' cap), more or less. Of that number, I'd say about a third is potential soldier material, in a pinch. In a REAL pinch you can probably increase that to half or even two-thirds for those 'we're about to die' moments, but then you have basically nobody left to hunt or scavenge and not enough for proper animal husbandry.

 

[Kz3r0]

B

 

[Zero Credibility]

Voting B.

Let's learn how to use and build boats, then use this knowledge to relocate our village to location C in the picture above - a rock in the middle of the river. Why bother looking for a better defensive location when we already have one near us? And I'm betting any trouble is far enough from us that we have time to fortify our defenses and build-up our military before they show up. Put up a palisade around location C and we have a really defensive stronghold that we can hold indefinitely (or until we run out of food). We can leave most of our herds on the mountain side of the river and just release them to be captured again later in case of a full scale attack. Needless to say, we also need to put scouts as far downstream as we can. But all this depends on knowing how to use and make boats, so B it is for me.

 

[Omicron]

B

 

[Lindblum]

Finally dragons, and I assume those forest beasts in the mountains are goblins?

Peace..., if thats the case let us create friendship with the new tribe and retreat from our home land.
Let us braid each others hair! Let us create floating coffins to cross rivers!
Vote B.

After getting what we need then Option C, run away.

I've had enough of this bullshit, when we had an weak opponent you guys didn't want to fight so now don't tell me anyone is planning on staying here to meet the horde. Let's get the hell out of here as quick as possible and leave these mongoloids to their own devices. They will come to this mountain sooner or later and I don't plan to be around when that happens.

Leaving until we squeeze every bit of information from those bastards? We did not just let free experience and food go to waste.

 

[Stygian Lurker]

B

 

[Jick Magger]

Voting B.

Put up a palisade around location C and we have a really defensive stronghold that we can hold indefinitely (or until we run out of food). .

That alone makes it a death-trap. They wouldn't even need to attack us, just sit on both ends of the river, set a camp up and starve us out.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Voting B.

Put up a palisade around location C and we have a really defensive stronghold that we can hold indefinitely (or until we run out of food). .

That alone makes it a death-trap. They wouldn't even need to attack us, just sit on both ends of the river, set a camp up and starve us out.

Normally I'd agree with you - being under siege when you have no way of preserving food is only going to end one way. But it looks like these fuckers don't have boats (otherwise how did that tribe escape?) and that gives us an enormous tactical advantage is such a position. Their warriors will have no easy way to cross the river or get to us. They will either have to find a crossing or risk swimming (very dangerous in a large river), while we can easily move on and off the island and up and down the river. Hell, we can move downriver faster then they can run. We could supply the island without them having any way to stop us. We could move our warriors in the night to strike at their camps and retreat back before they can retaliate. If they are holding both sides of the river then we have already succeeded in dividing their forces in two - they cannot bring reinforcements in time if we go on offensive. If they really don't have boats and we now have, the river is our major advantage.

 

[oscar]

Jesus, man up. Are you really considering uplifting everything and going into hiding because of hearsay from these losers? Abandoning our herds and home? We've got brave men, defensive terrain and the cutting edge (quite literally) of military technology.

Pull yourselves together defeatists, we haven't even met the enemy yet.

 

[Vernydar]

Jesus, man up. Are you really considering uplifting everything and going into hiding because of hearsay from these losers? Abandoning our herds and home? We've got brave men, defensive terrain and the cutting edge (quite literally) of military technology.

Pull yourselves together defeatists, we haven't even met the enemy yet.

I agree on this. I am currently undecided between A and B because I have no idea how much time we have. B is better in the long run, but it's uncertain whether or not we have enough time to first develop and then train a military, or if it would be better to just start training.

For that matter it's not even a given that those people will come our way for the time being. Certainly it would be foolish to ignore them.... But all is not lost yet

EDIT: just to be clear, even if we go with B, we need to start training a military soon. We cannot procrastinate forever. It's just that curufinwe said we can only have about 100 warriors at most now, and I don't know if it's enough. Anyway, war training has to come soon

 

[oscar]

I still reiterate that a lot of these problems would have been solved if we'd chosen to attack earlier.

 

[Jick Magger]

If they really don't have boats and we now have, the river is our major advantage.

You're assuming they didn't do exactly what we planned on doing; learned about navigating the sea from the captured and slaves. These guys apparently have been attacking tribes along the coasts for awhile now, assuming they don't at least have a basic understanding or desire to gain an understanding of navigating the sea would be a bit silly. Hell, the only feasible way they could follow the fleeing natives is by sea. If they do reach us chances are they'll probably know about as much about it as we do.

We shouldn't just seal ourselves up like a can of sardines and hope they don't pay attention long enough for us to make a bolt for it. If we're gonna retreat anywhere it should be up into the mountains. These guys only fight with their bare hands, right? Well then let's invest in making some ranged weaponry, simple slings n' shit for hit and run attacks in a terrain our hunters will be most familiar with. If shit really goes badly THEN we can take canoes from the end of the lake apparently reaching up to the mountain and make a dash for it.

EDIT: I don't think we're allowed to choose two options, gaiz. Either B or C.

 

[Lindblum]

The choice is made and resource is spent, I'll be damned if we don't learn their secret art of boat making and crap before we leave them behind to rot.

B is the only way! Get our moneys worth!

 

[Monty]

Don't see the point in C, unlikely we'll find a better location than our present one. As others have said this provides water, a defensible position and even the possibility of retreating up the mountain. We can't run forever.

B is the best in long run but it depends if we survive long enough. It's time we organised a proper defense force.

I vote A

 

[Zero Credibility]

I still reiterate that a lot of these problems would have been solved if we'd chosen to attack earlier.

How exactly? We would kill (what's left of) their warriors and be left saddled with weak and wounded that would be no good to us as slaves. All so that our warriors would get some dubious experience in fighting a bunch of refuges that were no threat to us. And we would probably take casualties in the process.

While this way we get all their warriors that already have experience in fighting the real threat that we might be facing, which they can teach our warriors. Had we attacked them we would be weaker then we are now.

 

[Zero Credibility]

If they really don't have boats and we now have, the river is our major advantage.

You're assuming they didn't do exactly what we planned on doing; learned about navigating the sea from the captured and slaves.

Point taken. But at the same time you are assuming they would still be fighting with bare hands - by the same logic they could have already picked up spears by now.

 

[Jick Magger]

If they really don't have boats and we now have, the river is our major advantage.

You're assuming they didn't do exactly what we planned on doing; learned about navigating the sea from the captured and slaves.

Point taken. But at the same time you are assuming they would still be fighting with bare hands - by the same logic they could have already picked up spears by now.

They've apparently fought multiple tribes, all we can assume have been armed with basic spears (I'm talking basically just sharpened sticks here), and kicked the shit out of all of them. I doubt they even believe they need spears. Hell, our stone-headed spears could provide an edge over them the other tribes possibly didn't have. But point taken, there is always that risk that they've caught up with us technologically.

 

[Multiple Sarcasm]

A. We'll get B's boat technology, anyway, and why should we waste time learning the customs of just 50 people that we are adopting (not the other way around) - accepting their non-conflicting customs is enough. Faced with a very possible threat unburdened by culture or conscience, we should be going Sun Tzu, not sniffing flowers with refugees.

Or are we are forbidden from adopting them through any option, except B?

 

[oscar]

While this way we get all their warriors that already have experience in fighting the real threat that we might be facing, which they can teach our warriors. Had we attacked them we would be weaker then we are now.

We would have gotten combat experience and water technology in the same update. Two birds with one stone. Now we have to pick between the two and all we got was some information that anyone could have told you ("we got our ass kicked by people good at kicking ass"). What can they teach our warriors? "They massacred us only using their fists and our weapons were useless. So uhh hope it goes better for you guys". All they've done so far is spread alarm and fear, shown by the elders panicking and suggesting we move elsewhere.

We found several tribes much like us, establishing peaceful relationships and trading fish for fish.

These guys were even wussier than us. Their "fighting" of this great menace pretty much accounted to getting completely curbstomped and massacred. Your idea that they can help us fight is akin to suggesting that an escaped Anne Frank could have helped Patton at the Battle of the Bulge.

They were men like us and you, yet they weren't like us and you. They were beasts, roaring their hunger and hatred

Ah, and the heart of the matter. He's absolutely right, these men aren't like "us and you". They actually know how to fight and appear to have a set of balls! We should be ashamed at his comparison of his tribe to ours. Pacifists who got their teeth kicked in when they met non-pacifists.

 

[Vernydar]

We would have gotten combat experience and water technology in the same update. Two birds with one stone.

No I really do not think so. Note that this update covered ONLY 15 days, in which our people went there and came back. Our hunters would have come back, in two weeks, with some prisoners and some boats. Though the boats would be: the strange things that float. I assure you, that in two weeks of marching our hunters would NOT have learned how to carve, maneuver, and maintain some strange things that float. Especially considering they are hunters, not exactly the smartest in the bunch

That said, the savages frankly seem more fanatics than warriors. Still debating whether to vote A or B...