On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!

[treave]

B. Come back with obsidian... or don't.

 

[Urist McLurker]

B

 

[TOME]

Here the Wielder tells us we believe in a religion about fire, demonstrates a powerful and unnatural control of the fire, and some people don't believe despite seeing proof of it right in front of them because they're idiots and so he burns them to death.

It all starts somehow. First it is unbelievers, when they are all killed then it is different translations, and soon every one with a slight different opinion is torched. No one dares to contradict anyone anymore. It does wonders to research when all doubt and ability to think is eliminated from the gene pool.

Real world example. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/13/virgin-mary-in-a-tree_n_1671270.html

 

[Kipeci]

There is abundant proof that the Wielder is correct about the fire religion (at least the parts regarding to flinging fireballs around, anyway), just as there is abundant proof in our world that evolution is indeed a thing. You'd probably call someone denying that evolution is an idiot. Given how these mouth-breathing water people that refuse to convert to the fire religion of the Wielder had ample evidence of his powers to show them that he was pretty correct in those matters, even down to their burning deaths, while having no evidence that their own was really doing anything for them (seriously, these water folks have spent all of these centuries getting raped by barbarians and whatever else and we never hear anything about some sort of Wielder analogue or whatever), I think it's safe to say that the loss of their lives was no great harm to our society.

On a side note, that's one of the most retarded instances of popery that I've seen for the past half month or so.

 

[oscar]

We probably don't want to entirely annihilate the water worshippers, as they seem to have useful functions (keeping the water clean, navigation, one of them discovered pottery). I guess the question is if the tribal tension their existence creates is worth it.

 

[Kipeci]

I don't want to entirely wipe them out, I just want for a majority of them to be converted to minimize problems with our rule. As it is, I'm kind of hoping some sort of water Wielder shows up so that we can recognize their traditions as legitimate and maybe merge the two, but until that point I'm aiming for supremacy of the fire religion with some toleration of the water religion as they have their useful duties. I'm thinking that, since the Wielder can evidently put up with the presence of at least some water folks, he could maybe be convinced to spare a few water worshippers in ever conquest.

Working in the confines of the current tribal council, I'd be for slapping a couple of those restrictions on him with any conquest while maybe granting him some concessions so that he can teach more folks about fire magic or something.

 

[Vernydar]

Water wielder? You mean, if we find a water gem... you would take it? Really? Would you blow up another hundreds of square kilometers and take it?

People, we're breaking the world here, literally. Also if teh fire wielder gets to power, the water followers will be annihilated. Face it

It is beyond me how you do not see what kind of person the Fire Wielder is

 

[Vernydar]

By the way, there probably IS a water gem near the lake. And it is stopping the advance of the fire spirit power which destroys the land

"You reached the end of the hills on the side of the Fiery Mountain. The moment you got out of their shadows, the world... changed.
The first sign something was wrong was an overpowering stench that everyone could immediately smell.Then the water shaman shouted in disgust and pointed at the waters. Where just minutes ago they were muddy, but otherwise clear, now you're navigating on an ash-choked, grey slime. Paddling suddenly became harder, as if the water was pulling at your tools."

Why is the river rather clean near the lake? It goes from clear and muddy to ash-choked, gray slime. Obviously the water spirit near the lake, though contained by the water gem, is pushing back the fire spirit influence

 

[Bloodshifter]

Its the power of the bears of course they wish for complete dominion over the world...

Just let them do their job.

 

[TOME]

There is abundant proof that the Wielder is correct about the fire religion (at least the parts regarding to flinging fireballs around, anyway), just as there is abundant proof in our world that evolution is indeed a thing.

Yes the Wielder has done some flashy things and is probably right about the fire religion. That, however, doesn't mean that fire is the only "right" religion out there. What happens when we encounter Wielder of the Air who sucks oxygen out of air and our Wielder is left to wonder what happened to his fire? Is that then abundant proof that Wielder wasn't correct about the fire religion and everyone should convert to air religion? We would be stupid to confine ourselves only to one elemental religion.

 

[Curufinwe]

Overwhelming victory for B. Seems the Wielder still has his persuasive touch.

The men, after listening to the Wielder, steeled themselves against the nightmare land in front of them. Despite the water shaman's protests it was decided to put the boats to bank and continue on foot. Nobody could tolerate the rotten smell of the river anymore.
It was decided to travel light, carrying only one weapon each (it didn't seem likely to sustain bear or wolf attacks) and as much food as possible without burdening anyone too much.
The Wielder advised the men not to stray far from him. He could keep the air tolerably breathable and the worst of the warmth off, but in a small area around himself. Even the water shaman, who for the first hour walked further away, glancing in rage and grief at the Wielder, slowly crept closer to the bald man until he was by all intents and purposes walking in his shadow.

The group made its way through a carpet of ashes directly towards the smoke-wreathed mountain. The going was slow, like walking through snow. In places the ash was as deep as a man's height and the risk of falling into those pits was very real. In fact, the expedition would have lost several men to this particular danger if not for the warnings of the Wielder who could apparently 'sense' those danger areas and steer everyone away from them.

Days passed, days of misery and tribulations, while the party headed further into the land, crawling closer and closer to the mountain. Then, one morning, while everyone was silently walking, the Wielder suddenly stopped. The party was cresting a small hill, unable to see past its tip. The Wielder raised a hand and ordered everyone to stop: "There is... something... ahead of us. It does not love us. A force of nature, a powerful fire spirit, unleashed and uncontrolled. We are in danger..."

Before he could finish what he was saying, the thing crested the hill. It was living fire, nothing else could describe it. It had a vaguely humanoid form, although taller than a normal man, its whole body made of deep red, writhing flames.
It was walking slowly, purposelessly, until it saw us. Then it roared, and it was like hearing the conflagration of a bonfire suddenly coming to life. Then it charged.
Before anyone could react, it had grabbed one of the scouts in front of the party. The men screamed in pain, his skin crackling and blackening in seconds. Everyone was paralyzed and unable to act at the horrifying scene. In seconds it was over, the thing discarding the charred remains and turning towards another man.

Motion returned to the party: half the men turned tail and ran the opposite directions, while a few soldiers tried to organize themselves and form a fighting front. The Wielder though was the first to react with method. He shouted: "Get back! Running away is useless! This spirit will not tire and will run after each and everyone of you, hunting you down until none are left! We have to fight it! We cannot kill it, but our sacred obsidian weapons will be able to hold it down! Warriors, you need to plant your obsidian spears into its body! It will hold him still, for a time!"

The warriors advanced in a tight formation. The spirit just walked in the middle of them, grabbing one man with each arm and burning them to a crisp, amidst horrible screams. But their deaths bought enough time for other brave souls to bury their spears into the thing's body. As the Wielder said, the thing suddenly stopped, falling to the ground and writhing, roaring, unable to get free.

As soon as everyone saw that, they noticed the spirit would be kept pinned, but only for a time... the spear's hafts were starting to blacken, although slowly, and would turn to ashes in only a few hours time.

The Wielder at this point ordered a strategic retreat. He said: "The thing will stay there for a few hours, enough for us to get out of sight. Afterwards, it will forget about us and keep its aimless wondering across the lands."

The party then retraced its steps backwards until a few miles were walked. The Wielder said: "We'll camp here today. It is as I feared. Those things are the very embodiment of the savage, killing side of Fire – he sighed – with my powers diminished as they are, I can't do much about it... but... if only I still had the Gem..."

A. The Wielder continued: "I will make a request to you, proud warriors. You've seen what the situation is like. Allow me to send a runner back to our settlement, to humbly request that the Gem is bestowed upon me once again. With it, I can bring those spirits peace, even converting them to our side... they would make a powerful, powerful ally..."
B. The water shaman was outraged: "Allies? Those things? I see what you're doing, don't think I don't! You're just using this as an excuse to trick the tribe into giving your powers back! And then you will betray us and follow your agenda once again! Don't think I can't see past your 'humbleness', you monster! You're untrustworthy! We'll head back now, right now, to camp. We'll report what we've seen, what your arrogance has unleashed! Warriors, restrain him!

 

[Vernydar]

B

No, no, and no again. I have already made my point abundantly clear in all these months. If you guys vote A now, know I will hold you responsible for the inevitable consequences.

 

[Kz3r0]

A

 

[Smashing Axe]

A, the wielder seems like a trustworthy sort of guy, there's no treachery in his heart. He only wants the best for our tribe. Let's give him back his gem.

 

[Kipeci]

A.

 

[Omicron]

A

 

[Hirato]

A

What's the worst that could happen!
Though I do think we should return to camp, we seem to have an opportunity to improve the condition of this area.

 

[Vernydar]

What's the worst that could happen!

Say hello to the water shamans, to the water followers, likely to the elder council, and to any possibility of trade for the next 50 or so updates?

 

[Esquilax]

We came here to get obsidian, not become pawns to the Wielder of Fire. We had a choice long ago to either explore fire magic further or do more weapons research by getting the Wielder to teach them. We opted for weapon research on the basis of not giving the Wielder further influence and because it would be more beneficial in the long-term. By ignoring all of that and following the Wielder's whims all of a sudden, we would be acting very inconsistently. He is obviously playing us, and whatever advantage he can get here is clearly not worth it.

B

 

[Smashing Axe]

I just like the idea of us being a big, powerful, intimidating fire nation who goes around beating down worshipers of the lesser elements. The Wielder seems the way to accomplish this.

Although I do share your fears of turning the country into a theocracy, I think he can be overthrown later down the track.

 

[Esquilax]

If he binds the spirits of this place to himself, that won't be possible. He won't be overthrown from within any time soon, no.

You've gotta be realistic here. If you vote A, you have to accept that the Wielder will become the leader of the tribe for probably quite a long time. Which is fine and dandy if you're into that sort of thing, but don't expect an opportunity to overthrow him when you've already given him absolute power. What's there to overthrow if he has powerful magic, spirits bound to his will and the overwhelming support of all the fire-worshippers in our tribe? It'll be impossible at that point.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Oh, when I talk about overthrowing, I mean like, twenty updates from now. It might not even be necessary if he ages.

 

[Vernydar]

I have always been against the wielder. I wrote it again and again. I explained why again and again.
- It will restrict our choices.
- It will make trade impossible
- It will mean water shaman and followers will be eliminated
- It will make everyone hate our tribe as we conquer neighbouring tribes under the: convert or die banner
- And who knows how long he will be the leader of our tribe. Centuries? Thousands of years?

But, no offense meant, the thing that riles me up the most is that I am under the impression that some people are voting B with the reason of: "Fire theocracy for the lulz". Not everyone, but some.

If you want the oppressive fire theocracy that conquers and exterminates anyone not following the fire god, I can accept that. Not agree with it, but accept it yes.
If you are voting with the reason of "roflmao kill lulz", then no I'm not ok with this.

I say this because apart from a few notable exceptions, nobody recently explained WHY they think being a fire theocracy is a good idea.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Well I can't give a rational argument for why I think it would be a good idea, other than it interests me, especially if it transforms from theocracy (which we may not necessarily get, but there's a good chance) to monarchy. I think it would be interesting to read, not necessarily in the best interests of the tribe. I don't know if that counts as for the 'lulz'

I think we'd need to have a determined goal for any other answer. Dominance over other tribes is mine at the moment, but subject to change once we know more about the world and the history of these runes. It might become thwarting the apocalypse, destroying genocidal supernatural ubermensch who are against us, or a number of other things.

 

[Bloodshifter]

A there is no proof in what you say the Wielder is a fanatic but he understands that for the good of the tribe he needs to at least be reasonable
will he replace us? maybe the council is already in a weak position what would have happened if we didn't have the wielder? the pits and the air would have killed all our men because we need obsidian. if they came back without it or they all died the tribe might want new version of rulers considering our failure as a council I would not be surprised. there is no compromise we have to get it its the only thing giving us even the slightest bit of dominance in the region I am voting not for the wielder but for the black stone that gives us half of our CLAN NAME.