One of the shittiest things about Skyrim

[Reinhardt]

by "travel" you mean "facing the wall and runjumping"?

 

[anvi]

It is pretending to be an RPG, Dungeon Crawler and more.

Imho that's the problem with any RPG set in an open world: it has to be good in too many genres all at once. It would have to be a good combat game, a good thieving game, a good diplomacy game, a good crafting game etc., to provide the player with a credible character experience for the role he has chosen to assume in that gameworld. So to make it work, either the devs should limit the freedom of the player in terms of the type of character they can play, or severely llimit the size of the gameworld (and number of NPC with whom you can interact).
But given the scope of TES games, it's unfortunately inevitable that we end up with everything half-assed.

The problem is they are rewarded for it. With Morrowind they make something at least RPG-ish, and it sells 4 million. Then they strip out all the depth and make it more shallow and retarded and mainstream and it sells over 30 million copies. The entire gaming world sees that as proof that dumbing stuff down and stripping out all the depth is the way to success. Gamers like shallow McShit.

 

[Late Bloomer]

One of the shittiest things about Skyrim:

The people who complain about it

 

[KateMicucci]

It is pretending to be an RPG, Dungeon Crawler and more.

Imho that's the problem with any RPG set in an open world: it has to be good in too many genres all at once. It would have to be a good combat game, a good thieving game, a good diplomacy game, a good crafting game etc., to provide the player with a credible character experience for the role he has chosen to assume in that gameworld. So to make it work, either the devs should limit the freedom of the player in terms of the type of character they can play, or severely llimit the size of the gameworld (and number of NPC with whom you can interact).
But given the scope of TES games, it's unfortunately inevitable that we end up with everything half-assed.

Limit the type of character they can play is the best option imo. Concentrate on a single good fighterthiefmage concept like an ubishit game but without an ubishit world.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Limit the type of character they can play is the best option imo. Concentrate on a single good fighterthiefmage concept like an ubishit game but without an ubishit world.

Would that be done via a level limit so the perk / character building choices are more limited? Would you mean to take away magic as a whole for instance? I don't play ubishit games so not sure what they do exactly to limit the type of chracter one can make.

 

[NecroLord]

Limit the type of character they can play is the best option imo. Concentrate on a single good fighterthiefmage concept like an ubishit game but without an ubishit world.

Would that be done via a level limit so the perk / character building choices are more limited? Would you mean to take away magic as a whole for instance? I don't play ubishit games so not sure what they do exactly to limit the type of chracter one can make.

Wouldn't work.
Even if you make spells and perks level dependent, at the end of the day the magic system is still shit.

 

[Kalon]

Concentrate on a single good fighterthiefmage concept

That's already a lot in an RPG if the devs decide to be really serious about it. And that makes me think that not enough time would be left for them to also create a big and credible worldplace, so best to concentrate on a single area with maybe a few extra dungeons.

 

[KateMicucci]

Limit the type of character they can play is the best option imo. Concentrate on a single good fighterthiefmage concept like an ubishit game but without an ubishit world.

Would that be done via a level limit so the perk / character building choices are more limited? Would you mean to take away magic as a whole for instance? I don't play ubishit games so not sure what they do exactly to limit the type of chracter one can make.

What I'm saying is basically what most action games with a smattering of RPG elements do. Imagine Skyrim but drop the numeric 1-100 scores and only have the perk trees, and instead of 18 perk trees there are 3.

This is what Ubi did in Farcry 3, three small skill trees.

The skill trees in Prey and Dishonored are similar.

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic also used a skill tree, though it was so small it was more like a skill shrub.

By the end of these games you'd probably have somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 of the perks unlocked. In Prey you could deliberately choose not to take any of the alien perks that gave you various psychic powers, which is how I imagine it could work for a Skyrim 2 character that didn't want to use magic.

Fallout 4 moved towards this system, but it was too inflexible for my taste because the perks you had access to were gated by SPECIAL.

Enderal also cut Skyrim's default perks down to five skill trees (fighter thief mage werewolf phantasmalist. The last two are relatively tiny). It kept the numerical skill scores as a disconnected vestige that did hardly anything, maybe because they couldn't be removed through modding.

Skyrim's trees are large but they're mostly filler and only a few stars unlock anything that's actually cool. I definitely would cut anything that's a %damage or %effectiveness increase. Why? Because it limits rather than expands player options by making any ability that's not perked up relatively ineffective. If I'm specced to do 2x damage with 1-h swords, I'm not likely to use 2-handed swords, bows or magic to deal damage. My choice is between 1-dimensional play with one tool, or suboptimal play. Same reason, light and heavy armor skill should be cut. Half the armors in the game becomes undesirable, and for what benefit?

Wouldn't work.
Even if you make spells and perks level dependent, at the end of the day the magic system is still shit.

The main flaw of the magic system is its interaction with level scaling. Spell damage doesn't scale, illusion magic is a binary succeed/fail checked against target level which you can't see. Removing levels from Skyrim 2 would solve many problems.

 

[Stavrophore]

I recommend watching some of videos of this channel
https://www.youtube.com/@GreedGaming01/videos
Or this
https://www.youtube.com/@rsdbhamre_Lala/videos
And you can see that Skyrim can be pretty skill based[knowledge of systems], even player actual dexterity based game.

 

[anvi]

I agree the perks sucked and it would be better with 3 well designed classes. But if you improved all the bad parts of Skyrim you would have a whole new game. If you gave a talented enough factory millions of dollars, they could probably turn an icecream truck into a Ferrari. But it would be cheaper to just buy a Ferrari.

 

[Ash]

Why are we pretending Skyrim is shit because of limitations inherent to the baseline concept rather than largely due to selling out? It's a shit game because it was designed for retards, end of story. Morrowind while incredibly flawed is twice the game Skyrim is.

 

[Reinhardt]

morrowind is ugly shit game about ugly shit elves

 

[Nifft Batuff]

I wish more Skyrim-likes and less Souls-likes, please.

 

[Laz Sundays]

Again, Skyrim etc. sold copies for same reasons GTAs used to. What appeals to masses is an open world for them to be dicking around in. Both thrive thanks to modding and aren't popular for their depth. Skyrim being worse cause it never had any. It's crap that you can mod to look like something appealing and pretend it's deeper - for quite awhile.

If Bethfags had ANY brain, they would embrace the mods and put all efforts into pure worldbuilding, make main story be irrelevantly hidden far in the background of the whole experience. You jump in and start slicing/casting/shooting. Money would rain. The fact that they couldn't even properly perfect their own casgrabbing model? That's the most retarded part of fucking Skyrim.

 

[Reinhardt]

make main story be irrelevantly hidden far in the background of the whole experience

wait, THERE IS MAIN STORY?!

 

[Kalon]

make main story be irrelevantly hidden far in the background of the whole experience. You jump in and start slicing/casting/shooting

That's pretty much how I played it. First I gave a try to the MQ, then nope-d out of it after realizing dragons were basically Skyrims's Oblivion Gates. Rolled another character, tried the Companions' questline which made me rage-quit at the point when you discover companions are werewolves and the game leaves you no other choice than be cool with it (because dudeswerewolveslmao I suppose).
So yea, jump around in the little sandbox it is.

 

[Reinhardt]

tes games are about former prisoner becoming head of every guild, not about some "main quest" shit.

 

[Kalon]

Morrowind MQ is good, up until the Cavern of the Incarnate point.

 

[Reinhardt]

Morrowind MQ

 

[Popiel]

Morrowind MQ is good, up until the Cavern of the Incarnate point.

Bizarre claim. Why exactly like that? I would argue it starts getting good some time afterwards...

 

[Poseidon00]

Morrowind did a lot of things right even if its not in my top 10. There is no excuse for some of these features being cut when they talk so little effort, like being able to charm enemies to initiate dialog. Certain things like master trainers and particular dialog trees being locked behind aggressive enemies who you need to charm was excellent, and I think only the original BG did something similar. Minor reactivity like that goes a long way. Or, imagine this, there being more than one way to complete a faction questline!

 

[Reinhardt]

the only thing oblivion and skyrim did worse is spears.

 

[Kalon]

Well, before the CI part you're not the Chosen One; at first you're some random prisoner who investigates a mysterious cult and an obscre prophecy, slowly discovering more about the land in the process, getting more familiar with its people; then you discover there's a possibility that you're the one foretolf by the prophecy, and finally a goddess acknlowledges you as her champion.
And then it's time to do mundane stuff for 4 tribes and 3 great houses, until you meet Dagoth Ur in a rather unclimatic final fight imho, and then nothing except "e-excuse me Sera" every time you meet an NPC.

 

[Popiel]

Well, before the CI part you're not the Chosen One;

Have you, by chance, skipped the initial dream sequence during which you're explicitly told by a Daedric Prince that you are the Chosen One...?

 

[Kalon]

Well, before the CI part you're not the Chosen One;

Have you, by chance, skipped the initial dream sequence during which you're explicitly told by a Daedric Prince that you are the Chosen One...?

I only watched it once ( but I think I skipped it mid-way ). Yes I see what you mean, but then there are apparently at least 5 other guys who also dreamt of Azura before, and see where they are now ?