Ori and the Will of the Wisps

[Morenatsu.]

You guys want to make Ori hard? Well, I've got a few ideas, heheh...

 

[Tarkleigh]

Decided its time to play the sequel. All is well, as expected, but - Im not sure about the difficulty. I think I beat the original Ori on normal, and i decided to go with hard with this one - I prefer the hardest, most challenging setting, as long as the game is not a complete pile of bullshit (HP bloat I'm looking at you), which this surely isnt. But, I've been playing on hard for an half an hour - hour, and I cant shake the feeling the game wasnt meant to be played on hard, and it sorta feels out of place.

Opinions bros? Keep playing on hard, or play on normal?

I would probably continue with normal. The game feels very good on normal with a more balanced difficulty than part 1 - which was pretty easy but spiked during the chase sequences - and I had a similar feeling like you did when I tried hard for a bit.

 

[Zibniyat]

Finished it with 85% completion, obviously hard difficulty, and I've invested 20 hours thus far. I've made a copy of a save game prior to confronting the final boss, just in case I decide to want to increase that percentage and find the few remaining hidden areas, as well as complete some challenges which I skipped. This one was certainly easier than the Blind Forest (finding secret areas is harder though, there is no that special ability to "see" all the things Ori can acquire on the map as was the case in the first game), the final boss-battle was challenging but not really difficult (still took me more than 5 times to finish it). It is as beautiful as the first game, and the soundtrack I think is even better.

The sequel is more of the same compared to the Blind Forest, so it's excellent, just overal easier. So all in all I give it a 9/10, a great game.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Actually, you gave it an 8.5/10.

 

[Darth Roxor]

there is no that special ability to "see" all the things Ori can acquire on the map as was the case in the first game

sucker

 

[Zibniyat]

there is no that special ability to "see" all the things Ori can acquire on the map as was the case in the first game

sucker

I don't get it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The ability is there, you just need to put in some effort to find it.

 

[Zibniyat]

The ability is there, you just need to put in some effort to find it.

It's different, the ability you speak of (the Mystery shard, which I obtained) only makes it known through "sound" the existence of nearby hidden areas, and makes the walls semitransparent. Nice, but still requires of the player to scour the maps thoroughly. In the first game just accessing the map overview revealed such things (after unlocking special abilities of course), so I could just direct my exploration to where it was needed.

I've remembered now that in the Blind Forest there were actually several special abilities dealing with hidden Life Cells, Energy Cells and - if I remember correctly - large spirit containers. And the player had to unlock them all if he hoped for finding said hidden things.

I've checked "the internet" and apparently there is a way to reveal all except Gorlek Ore pieces by making particular purchases at the map-seller.

I don't mind that, however, it's just not really the same as in the first game, which for some reason I expected it to be.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It's different, the ability you speak of (the Mystery shard, which I obtained) only makes it known through "sound" the existence of nearby hidden areas, and makes the walls semitransparent.

Spoiler

You have to complete the hand-to-hand "fedex" quest and activate the ancient map stone in the sandworm area. This puts ALL the secrets on your map.

 

[Zibniyat]

I stand corrected then.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

TBH, secrets in Ori 2 seem a lot easier to find than Ori 1. By the time I got the full map reveal, it was maybe to get last 10-15% of the stuff.

Replaying Ori 1 now, and it is waaaay harder than Ori 2. There are more extreme precission areas, the save system is more demanding (at least in the beginning, when you don't have many energy cells), and killing enemies is harder. Really can't say which one I prefer, I love both so much!

One thing I want to add is that the bonus material included in Ori 1 Definitive edition is fantastic! The interaction prototype, the level blockouts, etc. are great material to show how the pros build levels. And I absolutely loved that the Ori placeholder RECTANGLE had more animation frames, fluidity of movement, and personality than many modern "pixel art" bullshit games.

 

[Zibniyat]

Currently at 92% completion, I've decided to return to the game and do everything else that I missed. One of the reasons for missing certain hidden areas was because I thought that certain particle effects (akin to white sparks or similar) were simply due to design, not that they indicated destructible environment/obstacles behind which there were hidden areas. :D

I also completed that quest you mentioned Darth Roxor, I rated your post "too long" because once I clicked on the spoiler and read part of it I decided that I don't actually don't want to spoil the exploration, and I didn't even know that it was a quest since I forced myself to forget just what I had read.

 

[lightbane]

Finally tried this. It certainly looks more beautiful than the first one, perhaps a bit too much, as I don't like the new HD revisions of Ori's mother and Gomo or whatever was the black ball with limbs called.
It is so colorful that sometimes it is hard to keep track of what's going on on-screen with so many flashes around. Worse, the graphical options you can tinker with in the menu aren't very clear about what you can alter, if at all. Either way, it's quite a spectacle compared to utter Unity shit like Woketech 2018.

The game seems easier and more... "videogame-y", you could say, with all of the standard trappings of a Metroidvania and modern games, complete with quests. I kinda preferred the more concise gameplay of the first game. Ori also somehow got fighting classes and steroids off-screen, since he went from being a mostly defenseless infant, to scaring away giant wolves with a small torch, to stab bitches with a sword of light, shoot light arrows, or crush his enemies with a hammer of light.
For being rare spirits, the citizens of the new forest seemingly managed to manipulate light energy just fine without them.
I suppose someone took offense that Hollow Knight stole many things from Ori 1, and decided to return the favor for the sequel, going as far as to have similar gibberish voices for dialogue, and even a fucking quirky cartographer, kek.
Or a shady vendor that sells you totally-not Charms to you for a fee. Nevermind these Spirit Shards are probably pieces of dead Light Spirits long gone, but Ori is okay with that. Shame the Spirit Link system is gone, replaced by autosaves.
Even then, it's still a joy to play.

 

[lightbane]

I just finished restoring the windmill thing, where suddenly a surprise knock-off Cthulhu abomination pursues you. It is not as cool as the Ginzo Tree escape sequence, but few things probably will ever be.
The game is easier to play somewhat than the first one, it helps that Ori got stronger for sure since spikes no longer insta-kill you, for one. I also liked how there are much more open paths to explore for optional content. Then there's the Moki creatures, cute enough to be worth a mention, they seem to be dark/lightless equivalents to the light spirits to some degree, seeing they have yellow eyes and dislike bright spaces.
I have the fun thought that the Light Spirits of the second game's forest were more martial-minded and stronger than those of the first one, seeing many give you combat abilities, Ori passes out once he absorbs the light of one of their Trees for the first time, and were even considering using the obligatory magical ore for their own purposes. Unlike many depictions of other forest dwellers, where they would kill you and hang your body for daring to cut a few branches to build a small bridge, or perhaps just for merely trespassing, in both games spirits won't give a shit if you build stuff inside the forest as long as it is eco-friendly, or not too destructive.

 

[lightbane]

Alright, finished it, took 18 hours. It was fun, not as fun as the first one, it feels lesser to some degree and easier (on Normal at least). Gorgeous as ever, if not more so, and the production values are amazing as usual. Sadly, combat is still barebones: Only the hammer and the sword worth using, the others are usually situational that cost a ton and you don't even get to test them to decide. Chases are faster and somewhat easier, I liked the one in the snow level, although it we won't have a Ginso Tree scene ever again. The last ending is ball-busting hard as the first one, complete with the weird spiky spheres that exist only to shoot crap at you to force Bash spamming.

The new NPCs are okay in general, with some highlights and others less so. Mokis are cute and awesome, they seem to be dark-typed as they have similar eyes to the little bird, and dislike light. The Gorleks though, are bland as hell. There's also some cut content like the Gorlek mine, or how empty the temple section is, except for the blatant exposition walls. The worm chase was actually very easy for me, as by then I got nearly everything.
Shame the wolf boss is barely used, I have a fond spot for doges and he's barely used. He's big enough that he could have been one of the guardians, but not much is said.
Regarding the story though:

Spoiler

It's a tale of contrasts, loss, and life being unfair. I got it that Ori has to become a tree, his species do that, but it comes quite sudden, and why no chance to say goodbye. I'm not sure if the final battle with Shriek changed anything, as Ori still ended up fusing. Perhaps Ori would have been otherwise given some time to ready himself, but the owl forced the two into action? What do you guys think?
According to the wiki, not all spirits become trees, ancestral or otherwise, but becoming a Spirit Tree is the greatest honor they can hold for a spirit, supposedly said from the devs in one AMA section. Perhaps the Tree knew she was going to die and that's why the spirits of said forest were so martial-minded, to prepare a replacement? Alas, they all immediately die once the Decay sets in, so the point is moot.
Still, the final sequence being a throwback to the start of the first game was quite effective, as by now you actually care for Ori somewhat.

Overall, 9/10, I hope this gets DLCs or something for the cut level.

EDIT:

There's seems to be a LOT of cut content from Ori 2 which I hope it is included some day. The original ending was a bit different as well:

Spoiler

Ku died for sure, with no chance to come back.

If you look carefully at the Ori-tree's trunk, you can see the faces imprinted of the people Ori loved the most and/or impacted his life. Aka Ku, Naru, Gumo and possibly Kuro.

 

[DraQ]

I don't like the new HD revisions of Ori's mother and Gomo or whatever was the black ball with limbs called.

Agreed on that.

Ori also somehow got fighting classes and steroids off-screen, since he went from being a mostly defenseless infant, to scaring away giant wolves with a small torch, to stab bitches with a sword of light, shoot light arrows, or crush his enemies with a hammer of light.

TBH Ori did get quite formidable in the first game already, even discounting Sein after getting bash, stomp, charged jump and charged dash.
I was actually worried about more combative breaking the vibe, but it actually worked quite well, especially combined with giving him someone to protect and look after.

For being rare spirits, the citizens of the new forest seemingly managed to manipulate light energy just fine without them.

Looked more like collecting fragments of the light long past to me and it actually made the vendor system - another system I was worried about that would break the tone - work decently well.

I suppose someone took offense that Hollow Knight stole many things from Ori 1, and decided to return the favor for the sequel, going as far as to have similar gibberish voices for dialogue, and even a fucking quirky cartographer, kek.
Or a shady vendor that sells you totally-not Charms to you for a fee. Nevermind these Spirit Shards are probably pieces of dead Light Spirits long gone, but Ori is okay with that.

Good mechanics should be copied, there is too little of it anyway.

Shame the Spirit Link system is gone, replaced by autosaves.

True. Spirit link was a unique save system that worked extremely well. Shame to see it gone, replaced by braindead autosaves.

Alright, finished it, took 18 hours. It was fun, not as fun as the first one, it feels lesser to some degree and easier (on Normal at least). Gorgeous as ever, if not more so, and the production values are amazing as usual. Sadly, combat is still barebones: Only the hammer and the sword worth using, the others are usually situational that cost a ton and you don't even get to test them to decide.

Actually I've found myself using most of the combat abilities. They are situational, yes, but for example in Luma Pools boss battle Sentinel ability (more like Seintinel, rite?) was a life saver.

The new NPCs are okay in general, with some highlights and others less so. Mokis are cute and awesome, they seem to be dark-typed as they have similar eyes to the little bird, and dislike light. The Gorleks though, are bland as hell.

The only NPC I've found annoying (maybe irrationally so) was the map dude.
Moki were indeed pure
fodder.

Spoiler

It's a tale of contrasts, loss, and life being unfair. I got it that Ori has to become a tree, his species do that, but it comes quite sudden, and why no chance to say goodbye. I'm not sure if the final battle with Shriek changed anything, as Ori still ended up fusing. Perhaps Ori would have been otherwise given some time to ready himself, but the owl forced the two into action? What do you guys think?
According to the wiki, not all spirits become trees, ancestral or otherwise, but becoming a Spirit Tree is the greatest honor they can hold for a spirit, supposedly said from the devs in one AMA section. Perhaps the Tree knew she was going to die and that's why the spirits of said forest were so martial-minded, to prepare a replacement? Alas, they all immediately die once the Decay sets in, so the point is moot.
Still, the final sequence being a throwback to the start of the first game was quite effective, as by now you actually care for Ori somewhat.

Spoiler

Well, I'd expect Ori to be able to communicate if he can narrate - which made for a great twist, and spirit tree is effectively a kind of physical god of the forest. OTOH giving up your entire previous life and mobility - especially if you were as mobile as Ori - must have hit hard. Spirits dying off was probably more of a gradual process due to the world getting hostile with decay. I was a bit blueballed by the decay and Owl graveyard not being addressed more in depth in story leaving a lot of loose ends. Overall the story, emotional engagement and all wasn't as effective as in OatBF, though were it did hit, it hit hard (mainly the ending and brief "fuck, I've just killed their mother" moment with Mora). Speaking of ending, the impact was lessened a bit by it being too similar to OatBF's intro making it look artificial.

Overall, 9/10, I hope this gets DLCs or something for the cut level.

Absolutely (with OatBF being firm 10/10).

There's seems to be a LOT of cut content from Ori 2 which I hope it is included some day. The original ending was a bit different as well:

I'm a bit conflicted on whether original version would have been better or not.

Spoiler

Ku dying would have a lot of impact, it would also make the story work better "ok Seir, let's go save Ku, wait, let's go to Spirit Willow?" and would make Ori being so broken near the end work better. OTOH it's a much broader game and ludonarrative dissonance of going after side goodies VS pursuing urgent objective would become so much worse if the latter was doomed to failure. Gameplay and narrative need to support each other. Maybe having Seir restore Ku, and then having her die to Shriek near Spirit Willow would have worked better?

Interestingly, a lot of Silent Woods and Willow's End seem inspired by or possibly even recycling parts of unused OatBF ending that OatWotW effectively replicates

Spoiler

Silent Woods definitely look like a forest that burned and is still smoldering in places.

Overall there seems to be much more unused or changed stuff in the story than the devs officially admit and this story might have been better and richer than what we've got (so I really hope for a definitive edition):

Spoiler

• The decay seems to have spread from the Willow, not inwards from the outside - why?
• Most of the enemies are positively luminous - glowing mosquitos, glowing growth on those charging beasties, glowing cordyceps on Mora, glowing lantern balloon thingies, etc., while friendlies are dark aligned. We have already learned from the first game that light/dark isn't a simple good/evil dichotomy - maybe Niwen was actually overrun by deranged light rather than lack of it, by losing the tree rather than the light?
• What happened with the Owls? Because I don't quite buy "flash decayed" and it must have been fast or too widespread for them to just pack up and fly somewhere safe. Were they light-nuked? The woods *do* smoulder.

Spoiler

If you look carefully at the Ori-tree's trunk, you can see the faces imprinted of the people Ori loved the most and/or impacted his life. Aka Ku, Naru, Gumo and possibly Kuro.

At least getting artistic

Spoiler

seems to be the one part of Ori's life he didn't have to give up

.

 

[Morenatsu.]

is anyone else horni for ori

 

[DraQ]

is anyone else horni for ori

Paedo-furry delendi sunt.

 

[lightbane]

As for Ori being capable of making drawings, I know it was shown to make him more relatable to a small kid, but it does show that Light Spirits are not glorified forest savages. The Niwen Spirits were interested in metallurgy, and were quite martial people judging from the large number of combat trial places, and the Nibel forest had an entire civilization of eco-friendly scientists chilling out here with no issues. Compare this to the standard depiction about fantasy forest dwellers, where if you don't submit to nature and forget about technology forever, the elves will shoot you dead at best.

BTW, some people got quite worked up with the ending, if this near 20-pages long analysis is to be believed, lol:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1boGkSECckt7JEmnFsZypARR2X90Kj8SV/edit

TBH Ori did get quite formidable in the first game already, even discounting Sein after getting bash, stomp, charged jump and charged dash.

True, but that was separated from the story. Ori was still one-shotted by Kuro no matter what. In the sequel, Ori is now strong enough to actually harm these creatures that would otherwise cut him to pieces. It would have been cool if by the final battle, you were able to hurt the giant monster enough to push it back when they try to pursue Ori to show his greatly improved strength, rather than pummel the bosses, run away when the camera enters chase mode, then go back to 1 as if nothing had happened.

Looked more like collecting fragments of the light long past to me and it actually made the vendor system - another system I was worried about that would break the tone - work decently well.

They still were able to use light powers and survive in a place they shouldn't have, compared to the forest's inhabitants of the first game.

Actually I've found myself using most of the combat abilities. They are situational, yes, but for example in Luma Pools boss battle Sentinel ability (more like Seintinel, rite?) was a life saver.

I liked Sentry too, but there are some skills that are just plain better. The light grenade with the "dispersion shard" makes a super-effective fragmentation grenade that destroys groups and bosses quite quickly. The spear of light is surprisingly good when used against bosses with power-ups, as it automatically tracks the enemy.

I'm a bit conflicted on whether original version would have been better or not.

Spoiler

In the first game, it was shown that the light can resurrect the dead, so having Ori trade his life for saving his sister would have worked, rather than making her disappear forever.
As for your comment about Seir, it could be argued that you needed the full power of the spirit tree to do that. Seir though is certainly pushier than Sein, as well as stronger, seeing that it almost killed Shriek on her own.

Interestingly, a lot of Silent Woods and Willow's End seem inspired by or possibly even recycling parts of unused OatBF ending that OatWotW effectively replicates

I believe one of the interviews the writer stated they were not sure what they were doing with the plot so they recycled the original idea. Although I would say that part might be coincidence.

Overall there seems to be much more unused or changed stuff in the story than the devs officially admit and this story might have been better and richer than what we've got (so I really hope for a definitive edition):

About that, the lack of info and the statement by the devs gives us interesting implications:

Spoiler

According to the devs, the Decay spread from the willow, implying that either the trees themselves become the source of decay and kill the entire forest upon the moment they die, which is too bleak and a bit silly to work IMO (why wouldn't the spirits have a replacement ready before the tree croaked and killed everyone then? If they didn't, they would die en masse for sure if that was the case), or either the Decay is opportunistic and possessed the husk to ensure no spirit can attempt to fix the situation easily.

I think it's more of the latter, I believe the Decay has some kind of intelligence of its own, as it was not just mindless corruption everywhere: There was an evil spirit intentionally sabotaging the windmill so that the waters were foul, and said spirit goes for a powerful host to take over at the first opportunity later on.
The infected bosses and enemies have glowing tumors to show the Decay is an external infection, a parasite. Whether the Decay is Light gone bad or whatever we don't know, it's open to interpretation. If there was a 3rd Ori game, going to a forest where the Light surrendered to Decay for whatever reason and became an uber-corrupting evil would be a logical conclusion, but I digress.
Seir was torn apart into wisps once the tree died, so I don't think it was a case of a light going wrong in this case, either way. It was quite convenient that the Gorlek knew someone from the outside would save them, or that they had a magical mine capable of protecting the most fragile part of the wisps.
As for the owls, they flied away when the corruption spread further and further according to one interview. Kuro may or may not be a refugee from Niwen, it's left vague intentionally. One of the cut areas was the place where the few living owls hanged around before they were forced to leave. The cut Gorlek Mine also had a side-quest about a guy investigating a cure for Decay, but no idea how would that work.

is anyone else horni for ori

Game mascots are for petting, NOT pegging.

Besides, while spirits have genders and can be male or female, chances are they can only reproduce by having a Spirit Tree drop his/her seeds.

 

[Morenatsu.]

is anyone else horni for ori

Game mascots are for petting, NOT pegging.

Besides, while spirits have genders and can be male or female, chances are they can only reproduce by having a Spirit Tree drop his/her seeds.

imagine caring about reproduction. i just wanna live my gay ori x moki fantasies ok

Anyway lol at that essay. ‘What if the ultimate sacrifice was forced upon Ori against his will and it's a fate worse than mind control?? Lololol I'm smart!’ That's the kind of shit I'd think if I were five years old. But no, sacrifices and transcending to a higher state of being do not equal slavery lmao wtf is wrong with modern retards

 

[lightbane]

It's me, or is Unreal's avatar becomes even furrier and gayer every time I look at it? I suppose it is quite... Unreal.

 

[Morenatsu.]

Not as gay as my avatar, though.

edit: fag doesnt like my avatar thievery jokes, pfft.