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Incline OSR Games - Official thread

nikolokolus

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May 8, 2013
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B/X Essentials (now Old-School Essentials) is easily the best edited, best organized retroclone I've ever read. Its modular presentation is a big bonus for play at the table.

Kind of makes me want to fire up an old-timey Keep on the Borderlands campaign sometime (time permitting)

P.s. his Dolmenwood setting is also pretty fucking great too.
 
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Agreed. I've read most of the OSR stuff (blogs, DCC*, OSRIC), and B/X is still my go-to book when I need to create something. Not trying to be a shill but anyone with any interest in buying OSR stuff should support B/X guys.

* inb4 not truly OSR, foegyg, go fuck yourself, no true Gygaxman, that's not the way it's intended to work.
 
Self-Ejected

TheDiceMustRoll

Game Analist
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Agreed. I've read most of the OSR stuff (blogs, DCC*, OSRIC), and B/X is still my go-to book when I need to create something. Not trying to be a shill but anyone with any interest in buying OSR stuff should support B/X guys.

* inb4 not truly OSR, foegyg, go fuck yourself, no true Gygaxman, that's not the way it's intended to work.

do you post in the osr thread on /tg/?
 
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Ok, guys, I said I'm working on something, so I might as well ask what you think about general rules. I mix a lot of things from B/X, S&W, and LL, so I hope it's not too clusterfucky. EDIT: forgot to mention ACKS.

I've been playtesting it for a while now without any crippling issues, so here goes:

1) eight classes ("Archetypes"):
  • Fighter (d10): you get the idea, hit fast, hit hard, use anything available. Also: additional attacks on levels 10, 15, and 20. Not sure about cleave mechanics, might be an overkill when combined with additional attacks;
  • Thief (d6): nothing new here really, except some general mechanics changes. More on that later. As for now, on 1st level you might pick one skill as your "favorite one", and level it up more quickly;
  • Arcanist (d4): generic magic-man, not too much to change, except non-vancian-vancian spellcasting. I will force them to specialize whenever I can, however;
  • Cleric (d8): generally works the same way, except only a specific deity/specific deities grant the ability to turn undead/unholy/planar shit. In other cases, deities grant you some additional weapon proficiency (daggers/short swords for Clerics following the goddess of sex and murder), spells (fire-based magic for Clerics of the Forge Father), or both. Basically, a militant, heavy-armored preacher, which is why I don't put a Paladin in my game;
  • Bard (d6): I'm yet to see an implementation of the class (both OSR and not) that isn't either warrior-mage-thief, warrior-mage, or this stupid "charming fella" trope (fuck Dandelion with a pineapple). Bard is going to be a walking goldmine of lore, focused on magical instruments, word-shaping powers, and diplomacy. Closer to warrior-poet, I guess, than a dude with fancy mustache;
  • Assassin (d6): works as you might expect. Shares some skills with Thief, with a few minor changes: focuses on climbing walls, hiding in shadows, and moving around silently, can freely disguise (the setting doesn't feature any playable non-human races), on higher levels can attempt to craft his own poisons. I'm actually thinking about dropping lockpicking and pickpocketing entirely - he's a highly specialized individual, not Garrett;
  • Profiteer (d4): newcomer to the scene, part antiquarian, part grave robber, part caravaneer. Discounts, general greed, access to items normally not available in towns as long as you visited them at some point. Uses some mechanics/ideas stolen almost directly from Traveller sourcebooks. Absolutely useless in combat, though, but it can lead to some interesting party dynamics;
  • Ranger (d8): fuck this "must be of good alignment" shit, this guy is all about wilderness survival, dungeon crawling, and monster slaying. No spells, but can fix wounds (in his own, somewhat primitive ways), avoid surprises, or freely reposition himself at the start of a new round. Think of sniper from TF2 and you won't be too far off - pissing in a jar included. If Fighter is there to fuck up humanoids' shit, then Ranger does so for monsters.
The names are just placeholders, so take them with a grain of salt - there's nothing that stops me from renaming Thief to, say, Scoundrel, or Bard to Minstrel. One thing I'll briefly mention is the lack of race options or race-as-class. I've been thinking about this for a long time, and I honestly can't say I'd be happy if I allowed them. They don't bring much to the table, anything can be easily recreated with human cultures, they mostly boil down to "human with pointy ears", and if they're TOO ALIEN, we wouldn't be able to correctly roleplay them. Modern D&D ruined non-human races for me anyway; also (or should I say, above else), it wouldn't make much sense in-universe.

SIDE NOTE: if Ranger evolves in the way I think he will (ranged combat specialist), I might replace his hit die with Assassin, who's more likely to be not necessarily on the frontline, but close to enemy. Or just reduce ranger's HD to d6?

2) character:
  • your usual six stats are here, some renamed, some tweaked a little bit, some left unchanged. Roll 3d6 in order is the only true way. I'm quite vitriolic about "4d6, drop lowest" or "3d6, assign freely" approaches, but I won't stop anyone from doing it - as if I had any way of actually controlling whatever the hell you wanna do in your game. I'm just going to mention that both can catapult your character from "somewhat reasonable" to "heroic" or even "superheroic" levels;
  • ascending AC. That's it (but really, it just feels more natural);
  • encumbrance: I went with strength = number of equipment slots, with the first 3 items listed being freely available (that is, you can access them without wasting your turn). 100gp take one inventory slot. Armor listed as light/medium/heavy takes 2/3/5 inventory slots, mount barding twice as much. You don't wanna go into a dungeon without a cart, packmules, slaves, or all three;
  • gold-as-XP is still there, but I tweaked the numbers a bit, effectively dividing required XP by 10 (say, a Thief takes 125XP to gain 2nd level, instead of 1250), with the amount of loot required bumped up -- you gain the bulk of experience by slaying stuff (XP = 5x monster HD), discovering new things, and solving problems in an intelligent way;
  • three saves: fort, ref, will. It just works, I wasted WAY too much time trying to actually come up with something new. Stat check was there for a second, but I really don't want to juggle between roll under and roll over.
3) some mechanics highlights:
  • EVERYTHING is solved by d20 roll, including saves, Thief and Assassin skills, and aforementioned non-vancian-vancian casting, and trying to meet a specific number;
  • non-vancian-vancian casting: a stupid name for it, I agree, but it works. I HATE fire-and-forget approach; instead, your Arcanists and Clerics have a target number (similar to saves and Thief's skills) they have to meet in order to NOT forget a spell. General formula is 15+spell level+wits (intelligence) or resolve (wisdom) modifiers-Arcanist's/Cleric's level. The downsides to this are:
  • you know A LOT less spells than you might be used to. Arcanists aren't powerhouses anymore, which is why they want to get their hands on everything that might help them survive first levels: wands, scrolls, trinkets;
  • it takes a little longer to resolve your turn. About 5 seconds longer, oh my;
  • magic can actually screw you in unexpected ways.
If your character can freely cast lower-level spells (you need to roll 2+), you still need to roll - natural 1 grants you randomly generated detrimental effects. There's a reason most people say that magic corrupts the living shit out of you. Corruption leads to tentacles out your ass, reduced stats, and attention from otherwordly... stuff. If that doesn't work, I might as well use Sorcerer's mechanics​
  • speaking of random effects: a roll of natural 19 grants you a minor crit, a mechanic I stole almost directly from Numenera* (if there are a couple of things I actually enjoy about the system). To give you an example, a roll of 19 might allow you to roll for additional attack instead of directly dealing your weapon damage. Works only for magical (Clerics and Arcanists BOTH) and physical attacks, so no "you find additional 2d100 gold in a chest" on natural 20;
* in Numenera, you actually gain effects of scaling intensity on natural 17, 18, 19, AND 20. This was just a little too much for my tastes​
 
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rating_sawyer.gif
Well, I tried :M

Also: bump. Any ideas about making a summoner separate from regular Wizard?
 

Sacibengala

Prophet
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Something in the middle of a mage and a cleric. More brutal, archaic, like a witch doctor. It needs blood, knowledge of the monster's anatomy, a taxidermy specialist, and dirt from its habitat. the nervous system would be just magic, bonded with the psique of the summoner. It would be just a shell of a creature after the bond was severed, like cloth and bones, then ashes.
 
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I was actually thinking about something Charisma-based, with various pacts, temporary deals, soul-trading, and whatnot. The flavor isn't a problem, though, it's about the mechanics. So far it boils down to:

1) maximum HD of monsters summoned equal to Summoner's level/2, rounded down;
2) various spells/spell-like abilities that empower your minions;
3) no access to usual Wizard stuff - so no fireballs, no illusion spells, no magic missiles.
 

nikolokolus

Arcane
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I was actually thinking about something Charisma-based, with various pacts, temporary deals, soul-trading, and whatnot. The flavor isn't a problem, though, it's about the mechanics. So far it boils down to:

1) maximum HD of monsters summoned equal to Summoner's level/2, rounded down;
2) various spells/spell-like abilities that empower your minions;
3) no access to usual Wizard stuff - so no fireballs, no illusion spells, no magic missiles.
It's not d20/D&D-based but the magic system you're describing sounds like something straight out Chaosium's old Stormbringer game. Magic World from Chaosium, reprints all of those old mechanics, with the Michael Moorcock IP stripped out (the Advanced Sorcery supplement in particular) assuming you aren't interested in paying collector prices for an OOP game on ebay. It's pretty cheap in PDF and might give you some good inspirational material? https://www.chaosium.com/magic-world-2/
 
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I will, as soon as I make up my mind whether I want them to be real gods or a bunch of all-encompassing AIs, intent on rebuilding/fucking up humanity :M
 
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The AI is stolen from borrowed inspired by MCC "gods", but I'd rather imply some things rather than provide a definitive answer (after all, the world is designed to be a little closer to sandbox with a lot of missing parts, not a 100% complete setting). But "Anomalous..." is on the top of the list of things I want to get my hands on, heard a lot of good things about it. Anyway, like I mentioned, the setting is my take on Numenera - there's a lot of stuff I simply can't stomach about it (both mechanically, and fluff-wise) - all those years into the future and instead of having some form of Neoplatonian philosophies we get a princess with purple head. I want my future to be Metabaronian at least a little bit, for fuck's sake.
Bonus points if there are actual rules mentioning how to fuck your mother, who is actually your grandfather, and gaining a buff out of it.

A little update on the "non-vancian-vancian" stuff: after a couple of tests I think a simple Will roll should be enough. Cast a spell -> roll Will -> see what happens. When you roll less than Will save, you forget the spell and can't cast it before you get the usual amount of uninterrupted sleep. Roll 1, not only you forget a spell, but also suffer some form of corruption/consequence, usually depending on severity of the spell - it backfires, grabs unwanted attention, and so on. It sure seems easier to wrap my head around than coming up with all those tables, and sure as all hell works for both Clerics and Mages Arcanists.
 
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I know I'm spamming the thread a bit lately, but I've started reading through ASE mentioned by nikolokolus and it reminded me of something I wanted to try a while ago: Mutant race-as-class, a completely random character.

  • your HP is determined randomly by two rolls. Roll 1d4 to determine hit die, then roll the appropriate hit die (1 = 1d4, 2 = 1d6, 3 = 1d8, 4 = 1d10);
  • every time you level up (or every second level?), you roll 1d100 on mutation tables. Mutations might include claws for hands, antennae, various scales and spikes (+AC, but limits your armor options), tails, breath attack 3 times/day, and so on;
  • immunity to radiation, which is actually quite a big deal in my setting, fucking you up in no time when you're not careful. On 5th level, they gain an option to naturally find sources of radiation, on 10th they can get healed by it.
The drawbacks? Everything is so random you can easily get crippled if dice don't work in your favor (somewhat fixable, though, just let the Mutant pick whatever they want, but not HD rolls; OR let them pick, but they have to roll on a "bad" mutations table). On top of that, after a while you can look so fucked up, you don't gain access to followers/henchmen and your charisma is almost non-existent, however high it may be. Or screw the charisma, let's play:

Zorak_Space_Ghost.png


Just a blogpost, I'll go fuck myself now :shittydog:
 
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Sacibengala

Prophet
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Don't know if you guys can help me, but, aside from gridcartographer, there are good mapping tools out there to map dungeons? Tabletop wise, not necessarily pc game wise.
 

nikolokolus

Arcane
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Dwemer's game sounds like incline. Keep at it, bro.
love.png


So, since I'm constantly blogposting anyway, I have some minor update. I've been playtesting this stuff extensively (seriously, up until a year or two ago I didn't realize how much time it takes to design something that makes sense and is at least somewhat playable) and I think I'm going to:

  • ditch Assassin and Profiteer: I don't think they bring that much to the game. Sure, Assassin was supposed to get major bonuses to backstab and ability to disguise himself on the fly, but I don't want any class to step on each other's toes. Call it "securing a niche", if you will - so far, I have guys/gals that are good at hitting stuff (Brute/fighter), casting stuff (Arcanist), both (Cleric), dealing with other people (Bard), surviving in the wilderness (Ranger), and stabbing/a generalist/skill monkey (Scoundrel). As for Profiteer - while I still like the general idea of the class, it ultimately boils down to some sort of glorified accountant and provides nothing that can't be replicated by a clever player. Eh. That's what I would call the class/archetype - "Eh";
  • finally implement Mutant and Construct (race-as-)classes. I described the Mutant in my last post - controlled mutations, radiation immunity, that sort of thing. As for Construct, I think it should be compared to S&W's monk - you start rather underwhelming (not to say "useless"), but can become quite powerful as you gain experience: immunity to most magical effects (including friendly spells), additional attacks, high natural (ascending) AC. The drawbacks are pretty reasonable, I think: you take twice as much damage from electricity-based effects, rust-based monsters fuck you up in no time, you can't swim, drink potions, or use most items. Overall, an Archetype EXTREMELY powerful in certain situations, but completely useless in others - just like I wanted it to be from the get go. Or hell, if you need any reason to pick Construct, just remember I want him to be this glorious bastard:
2699084-wiz8rpcs.png

I think I'll finish the "characters and equipment" chapter this week, so stay tuned, if you're actually interested.

I really should make a blog about this stuff.
 
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I've been through some shit lately, so all the "publishing" part had to be set aside for a while :negative: Still, I managed to scrap a couple ideas together, playtest some, and tinker with another. Archetypes/classes are still a big deal - I'm of the opinion that classes should be designed around the setting, not the other way around, so here's what I came up with so far:

  • Basher, associated with the Pillar of Iron: big weapons, big armor, big damage, your go-to fighter type. On later levels, may gain access to spell-like abilities which temporarily enhance your weapon damage/durability (or remove them altogether, sometimes you just need a simple class and that's fine);
  • Strider, associated with the Pillar of Winds: ranger type, with tracking, pathfinding, survival and everything in-between. Spell-like abilities might include shit like limited weather control or automatically mapping a dungeon/place you heard about (not all of it, obviously). Not sure about favored enemy, but will probably throw it in;
  • Necronomist, associated with the Pillar of Bones: something between cleric (being somewhat more tanky than regular spellcaster) and necromancer, with spells based around speaking with the dead, banishing/enslaving spirits (depending on alignment), reanimating/exploding corpses and so on. Pretty basic stuff, really;
  • Scoundrel, associated with the Pillar of Gold: it's a thief, plain and simple. If you don't care about profit and play Scoundrel, you might be doing something wrong;
  • Weaver, associated with the Pillar of Mind: loremastery, charms, warrior-poetry, that sort of thing, with focus on Charisma and dealing with other people;
  • Scorcher, associated with the Pillar of Flames: THE most offensive-minded spellcaster. The "Flames" are actually somewhat of a misnomer, since his spells are based not only around fire, but lightning, air, and so on. Requires pretty high CON, since his spells can also easily backfire (pun intended);
  • Warper, associated with the Pillar of Space: another spellcaster, but with focus on summoning, pacts, deals, and limited teleportation thrown in for good measure. Will probably go insane sooner or later;
  • Shaper, associated with the Pillar of Flesh: initially I wanted this guy to be a Tzimisce-inspired, vicissitude focused class - you can go healer route, but also focus on stuff like shaping your own body into something completely different, temporarily changing your hands into claws, growing enormous teeth, shit like that. Also some weird take on treating poisons and diseases - you don't magically get rid of them, but rather transfer them to another, random target. Expect to hear the news about local population being stricken by an unknown sickness :M
Why so many spellcaster-like classes, you may ask? It's pretty simple, actually, and boils down to my idea about wizards in general: spending half your life practicing elemental magic shouldn't automatically allow you to cast a necromancy-based spell the moment you come across it. Sure, it might be completely different from what OSR M-Us are based around (starting with random spells, not controlling what you get as you go on adventurers and so on), but it works. Usual stuff I mentioned in one of my earlier posts still applies: saving throws against spells or forget it for the next 8 hours, limited caster "powerhousiness" (ironically), everyone having their own niche to focus on.

The only problem I can see with this is setting-based - there are no gods, or at least their existence isn't that big of deal since cleric was effectively split into two classes (Necronomist and Shaper). This is something I can actually live without; I wanted my gods to be distant, incomprehensible, and uncaring at best anyway. And since always gravitated towards warrior-mage archetypes, I might as well make everyone some incarnation of the concept.
 
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It's a cross-breed (or should I say: "clusterfuck of ideas") between Tyranny's spires and MtAs/MtAw spheres. Literally pillars - always visible on the horizon, a techno-magical experiment gone completely wrong, destroying half of the world in the process. Think Dwemer experiments, but with the effects not limited to one race.
 

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