Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Saark]

Not that surprising, since the picture linked is from sc-breach. HC shows that both the scion lifewheel and CI found more uses there. Most ladder-pushing people in sc (its only the top ~3k of a 3month league) don't go towards the scion lifewheel since they can pick up a little less life and more damage in other areas.

 

[T. Reich]

Really, you only have to look at ascendancy passives usage these days.
The picture says it all:
1) Assassin, Pathfinder.
2) Elementalist, Inquisitor.
3) Occultist, Raider, Berserker.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Jason Liang]

i love heat maps. I love data.

It begs to create LP like: heat map driven char planning... Which would fail miserably ofc

The heat map looks a lot like my witch's tree

I'm very surprised that Force Shaper has no heat at all, given it's value and accessibility.

 

[baturinsky]

Really, you only have to look at ascendancy passives usage these days.
The picture says it all:
1) Assassin, Pathfinder.
2) Elementalist, Inquisitor.
3) Occultist, Raider, Berserker.

I'm kinda surprised by Inquisitor popularity. Is enemy resistance so big problem? There are penetration gems and curses.

 

[baturinsky]

i love heat maps. I love data.

It begs to create LP like: heat map driven char planning... Which would fail miserably ofc

The heat map looks a lot like my witch's tree

I'm very surprised that Force Shaper has no heat at all, given it's value and accessibility.

And my Assassin Blade Flurry tree Orange nodes in North-East are ES, Life, AOE, sockets, crits, all with not much "tax" nodes - what's not to love

 

[Cyberarmy]

Anybody tried Gladiator with maxed (spell)block? Is it as good as it seems?

Well, I killed Shaper with it in legacy league. Soul taker, Surrender, The Anvil and Bringer of Rain were my uniques. Used Static strike.

Most of the maps were easy once you got enough resist. But guardians really a pain in the ass for me and some map bosses were borderline impossible.

 

[T. Reich]

i love heat maps. I love data.

It begs to create LP like: heat map driven char planning... Which would fail miserably ofc

The heat map looks a lot like my witch's tree

I'm very surprised that Force Shaper has no heat at all, given it's value and accessibility.

Not really surprising.
Currently, if you go for scaling phys damage, you either go poison or phys to ele conversion.
If you go phys-to-poison, it's much more rewarding to scale chaos damage for double-dipping purposes, since there are already plenty of ways to scale phys-to-chaos in endgame.
Phys-to-ele has no need of extra chaos damage, so the cluster gets skipped.
And in either case, you're probably better off getting more generic mods as well - projectile or area damage.

Really, you only have to look at ascendancy passives usage these days.
The picture says it all:
1) Assassin, Pathfinder.
2) Elementalist, Inquisitor.
3) Occultist, Raider, Berserker.

I'm kinda surprised by Inquisitor popularity. Is enemy resistance so big problem? There are penetration gems and curses.

It's all in the name of effectiveness and synergies:
1) Enemy ele res reduction is mandatory for ele-based builds, but has diminishing returns, so stacking a lot of it may be counter-productive.
2) Expending limited build resources (gem links, curses, passives, gear mods) towards enemy ele res reduction, while buffing damage indirectly, also means that you're using fewer straight damage multipliers.
3) Stacking crit (if you can devote enough of build resources to it) is always better in terms of overall damage potential, and it scales much better with investment than the same non-crit build. That is because crit damage is the additional "more" multiplier in the damage formula, while stacking more of vanilla damage and attack/cast speed will soon result in severe diminishing returns.
4) Inquisitor offers 2-for-1 advantage if you free up build resources devoted to enemy ele res reduction and redirect them towards maximising crit chance, you're simultaneously getting a) more damage due to more crit b) consistent solution to enemy ele res problem.
Usually it takes the form of stacking crit on passives + swapping out the otherwise-mandatory ele penetration gem for increased critical strikes gem.
And, of course, the inquisitor ascendancy itself provides sizeable buffs to crit chance and damage, elemental damage, and attack and cast speed.

The added bonus is that inquisitor in specific circumstances can completely eliminate the drawbacks of elemental equilibrium while providing all the benefits. The most popular example of that is using pure cold damage builds with Hrimburn unique gloves to be able to cause cold damage to inflict ignites. Since ignites are coded as fire damage, and you still inflict only (unless you fucked up gearing) cold damage with your hits, that means that inquisitor with EE would constantly inflict fire-based ignites with their cold damage, apply -50% fire res with EE, while ignoring the +25% cold res from EE thanks to his ascendancy.

 

[baturinsky]

I thought that Inevitable Judgement cancels negative enemy resistance too, no?

 

[T. Reich]

Yes. It simply sets it at 0% for the calculation of damage dealt with critical hits, and ignores any modifiers.

 

[baturinsky]

Oh, right, ignite damage is not crit, and therefore can profit from res pierce I see.

Speaking of ignite and such... What are other ways of double-dip, or at least have multiplicative bonus instead of additive?

Primary damage - listed weapon or spell damage.

* additional flat damage bonuses (+n damage of type m)
* +n% damage to applicable type (applied only once, even when damage is converted.)
* attack speed
* increased crit chance
* additional crit chance
* resistance (penetration)
* +50% from shock (is it a separate multiplier?)

For secondary DOTs
* +n% damage for applicable type again
* +n% duration

NOT for secondary DOTs
* crit multiplier

Not sure about stuff like +n% damage from Onslaught, Frenzy, Violen Retaliation, etc - are they stacking additively or multiplicatively with other bonuses?
Is +n% damage over time a separate multiplier?

EDIT: according to forums, all "increased" are added, and all "more" are multiplied.
And there is also "gain n% of x damage as y", which looks like a separate multiplier too.

 

[Cyberarmy]

double-dip

days are over in 3.0

 

[Saark]

Speaking of ignite and such... What are other ways of double-dip, or at least have multiplicative bonus instead of additive?

As you already mentioned, any type of "more" damage is multiplicative. Every type of "% of X added as Y" damage is also technically a more multiplier, for example the cold to fire support adds 29% of cold damage as additional fire damage. With these types of damage you have to consider what/how you are scaling your damage though.

Double-dipping nodes/modifiers are all those that apply to both the initial hit, aswell as the Damage over Time component that follows after, thus scaling the final damage of the DoT exponentially. Spelldamage double-dips only on spells that state "Modifiers to Spell Damage apply to this skill's Damage Over Time". For Essence Drain this means that spelldamage affects the DoT effect of the spell. Due to the coding/wording this also applies to any DoT effect caused by the projectile, for example poison. Firedamage/Elemental damage double-dips for ignites, Chaosdamage for poison. Then there is a couple of other modifiers that affect a variety of spells - if the originating spell has the appropriate tags for these modifiers they double-dip for the DoT aswell. The most notorious of those would be projectile, area and trap/mine damage.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Jason Liang]

Spectral Wolves are pretty bad. They expire, don't seem to deal much damage, have a slow reaction time, and I think the most I've ever gotten at one time is 5-6. I can leave my Scourge in the guild stash if you want to try it out first.

Might be a lot better to sustain them if you dual wield Scourges though.

I have no idea how much damage they would deal when you blow them up, but they are definitely not the reason to use Scourge.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[SirSingAlot]

i was also interested in knowing, whether the Iron Grip Keystone is worth it and how excatly the projectile dps is scaling with it

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Zdzisiu]

Btw, the name of 3.0 league was leaked.

Spoiler

HARBINGER

 

[baturinsky]

Made me a Gladiator pretty much exactly like https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1647240

It's way better than anything I had before. 43k tooltip damage, near-cap block, very good damage and survival. Only weakness is no chaos resistance whatsoever and relatively low hp (~3300).

And all that on a budget of under 30c.

 

[Varvarg]

i was also interested in knowing, whether the Iron Grip Keystone is worth it and how excatly the projectile dps is scaling with it

Its worth it if your molten strike dps relies on physical part. It basically gives you 2% increase per 10str.
From my understanding its useless if I go flat elemental.

seems it will still work

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Damage_conversion

damage conversion happens before any increases. But, the converted damage will be increased by the damage it was converted to, and the damage it was converted from.

So you could do a fire based build with only phys increases, and convert it all to fire. pretty nifty. E: so you should aim to increase the base damage type, unless you manage to convert all of it. If you do 10 points of phys, and have 30% convert to fire, and take a node that increases fire dmg by 33%. That increase would just be 1 extra damage. While if the node was 33% phys you would do a total of 13 damage.

I'm very interested in decay by the way. It doesn't stack, and follow damage effectiveness, i understand?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Varvarg]

the old elemental cleavers used to run that, with the foils and shit. was apparently very good since they nerfed speed of foils. Remember yiou could get 2.07 attacks/s with those.

Guess it could still be nice with pathfinder for that wise oak and other stuff? or just raider and go full frenzy

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG