Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Erikkolai]

Arcane spell casters are not necessary in PFKM.

That's disgusting! And come to think of it... are there even any fun mage duels in this game?



No... I don't think so... WTF... SAWYEEER!

 

[Pink Eye]

>Arcane spell casters are not necessary in PFKM
W-what?

 

[LannTheStupid]

W-what?

Has he ever stated his preferred difficulty level?

 

[Cryomancer]

If I can't tolerate Octavia, will go with Jubilost. Arcane spell casters are not necessary in PFKM. Melee is pretty supreme here.

On story/easy difficulty?

Just kidding. Druids can replace some spells of clerics and wizards but not all.

 

[ArchAngel]

They are really not. A Bard can replace one if you only care for buffs. And Alchemist can be the touch attack ranged attacker.

 

[Delterius]

i can't live without grease and stinking cloud tbqh

 

[ArchAngel]

Bards have Grease. Make that sonic subclass bard, focus on Charisma and spells only. He is OP as hell

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Erikkolai Pink Eye S0rcererV1ct0r

I don't think arcane casters are necessary for difficulties of Challenging or lower. I bet you could get by on Hard without them. That's not to say they aren't useful, they just aren't needed. Clerics give you what you need, Alchemists & Kineticists can do the rest. A bard will definitely fill any wants. The weak AI, UBER loot, lack of enemy spellcasters, and long adventuring days really take full arcane casters out of the equation for *must have*. By the time a party arrives at, or completes, Trobold--most combat tends to auto-complete. Again, this is not to say that a party wizard/sorcerer isn't good or useful. They are my favorite. They just aren't necessary in PF:KM, unlike most glorious and sublime BG 1 & 2.

 

[Sharpedge]

If you define necessary as, "cannot finish the game without them," then they are not necessary on any difficulty including unfair. They are very convenient to have though.

 

[Pink Eye]

Erikkolai Pink Eye S0rcererV1ct0r

I don't think arcane casters are necessary for difficulties of Challenging or lower. I bet you could get by on Hard without them. That's not to say they aren't useful, they just aren't needed. Clerics give you what you need, Alchemists & Kineticists can do the rest. A bard will definitely fill any wants. The weak AI, UBER loot, lack of enemy spellcasters, and long adventuring days really take full arcane casters out of the equation for *must have*. By the time a party arrives at, or completes, Trobold--most combat tends to auto-complete. Again, this is not to say that a party wizard/sorcerer isn't good or useful. They are my favorite. They just aren't necessary in PF:KM, unlike favorites like BG 1 & 2.

I haven't played Challenging in a very long while, so I'll take your word for it. However, a spellcaster is necessary for the higher difficulties. It will be one hell of a herculean effort to survive Unfair without a spellcaster.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Sharpedge Pink Eye Typically whatever setting is core rules+1. I rarely play difficulties like Unfair on any game--certainly not on RPGs. Gameplay turns into a cluster of meta-knowledge, exploits, AI abuse, and cheese due to stepping outside the design boundaries of the system. I just can't find it fun. One reason I've stayed enchanted with the Baldur's Gate series for so long, is because the AI from the SCS mods is so good, that difficulty stays intact without resorting to bloat. Ironically, the massive bloat PF:KM tacks on in unfair might actually make things fair for the AI by mid-game, as the incredible amount of stat enhancement that the game's items give you are so extreme.

 

[Efe]

Silent Wolf encounter is actually pretty fun in the early game

Can't say I'm a fan of encounters that are designed so clumsily that meta knowledge is the best counter (which you demonstrate by blocking 2nd wave of attackers that are supposed to charge into your back line).

 

[Pink Eye]

Silent Wolf encounter is actually pretty fun in the early game

Can't say I'm a fan of encounters that are designed so clumsily that meta knowledge is the best counter (which you demonstrate by blocking 2nd wave of attackers that are supposed to charge into your back line).

Micromanaging aggro almost cost me my monk's life! So it wasn't so easy, you know!

 

[Pink Eye]

Sharpedge Pink Eye Typically whatever setting is core rules+1. I rarely play difficulties like Unfair on any game--certainly not on RPGs. Gameplay turns into a cluster of meta-knowledge, exploits, AI abuse, and cheese due to stepping outside the design boundaries of the system. I just can't find it fun. One reason I've stayed enchanted with the Baldur's Gate series for so long, is because the AI from the SCS mods is so good, that difficulty stays intact without resorting to bloat. Ironically, the massive bloat PF:KM tacks on in unfair might actually make things fair for the AI by mid-game, as the incredible amount of stat enhancement that the game's items give you are so extreme.

>AI from the SCS mods is so good, that difficulty stays intact without resorting to bloat
Play Chalice 2. Seriously, go play it. It has pretty good AI and no there's no bloat or trash encounters. Every single encounter you face is hard as balls.

 

[Cryomancer]

On BG2, people say that is impossible to beat the game without a cleric, however, I soloed the game on Legacy of Bhaal(EE) as a necromancer. PFKM I tried to solo the game but failed... The reasons are many

• Resting on pfkm is far more complicated
• You don't start the game on mid level contrary to BG2:SoA. Lv 1 casters suffers a lot.
• There is no ultra powerful spells like Chain Contingency and Stop Time
• A lot of enemies will only take the full damage of a finger of death on a critical. You can't cast two lower resist + greater malison and make even a dragon have around 60% of chance of OHdying by FoD.
• There is no long duration summons
• There is no familiar who can detect nasty traps and without a cleric to heal attribute damage, a lot of damage to your INT/CHA(wiz/sorc) can mean that you can no longer cast spells
• Enemies cast way more nasty spells like feeblemind
• Enemies with 35+ SR are not uncommon and contrary to BG2, there are no LR to lower his "magic resistance"

I an not complaining about any information posted here. Only explaining why I failed on soloing the game as a caster. In fact, I like some trap designs and that you can't rest scum. But there are people who soloed the game as a sorcerer.

 

[Pink Eye]

>There is no familiar who can detect nasty traps
I am pretty sure there are familiars that increase perception. Which is required to detect traps.

 

[Raghar]

Play Chalice 2. Seriously, go play it. It has pretty good AI and no there's no bloat or trash encounters. Every single encounter you face is hard as balls.

And that's a problem. Playing a RPG as a nice game about detailed world is better than playing a puzzle game that uses characters and stats.

 

[Pink Eye]

Play Chalice 2. Seriously, go play it. It has pretty good AI and no there's no bloat or trash encounters. Every single encounter you face is hard as balls.

And that's a problem. Playing a RPG as a nice game about detailed world is better than playing a puzzle game that uses characters and stats.

I don't understand. I think Chalice 2 is a very good game. The first module was mostly combat and puzzles, yeah. However, I believe Pierre will fix that with the other modules. If you're someone like me who does nothing but play Kingmaker on Unfair then Chalice 2 is a solid recommendation.

 

[Cryomancer]

Play Chalice 2. Seriously, go play it. It has pretty good AI and no there's no bloat or trash encounters. Every single encounter you face is hard as balls.

And that's a problem. Playing a RPG as a nice game about detailed world is better than playing a puzzle game that uses characters and stats.

I don't understand. I think Chalice 2 is a very good game. The first module was mostly combat and puzzles, yeah. However, I believe Pierre will fix that with the other modules. If you're someone like me who does nothing but play Kingmaker on Unfair then Chalice 2 is a solid recommendation.

How many hours do you have on kingmaker?

 

[Pink Eye]

I have 2.4 k hours in Kingmaker. I am also currently doing a youtube lets play as well. Playing games is a hobby of mine. I like to invest a lot of time into my hobby. Anyways, hopefully when Pierre fixes Chalice 2 I'll be able to invest more time into it. But for now I tapped out after beating it and spending two hundred hours on it.

 

[Sharpedge]

On BG2, people say that is impossible to beat the game without a cleric, however, I soloed the game on Legacy of Bhaal(EE) as a necromancer. PFKM I tried to solo the game but failed... The reasons are many

• Resting on pfkm is far more complicated
• You don't start the game on mid level contrary to BG2:SoA. Lv 1 casters suffers a lot.
• There is no ultra powerful spells like Chain Contingency and Stop Time
• A lot of enemies will only take the full damage of a finger of death on a critical. You can't cast two lower resist + greater malison and make even a dragon has like 60% of chance of OHdying by FoD.
• There is no long duration summons
• There is no familiar who can detect nasty traps and without a cleric to heal attribute damage, a lot of damage to your INT/CHA(wiz/sorc) can mean that you can no longer cast spells
• Enemies cast way more nasty spells like feeblemind
• Enemies with 35+ SR are not uncommon and contrary to BG2, there are no LR to lower his "magic resistance"

I an not complaining about any information posted here. Only explaining why I failed on soloing the game as a caster. In fact, I like some trap designs and that you can't rest scum. But there are people who soloed the game as a sorcerer.

Depending on how you want to go about it (and what difficulty you try to do it on) it can range from being fairly easy to solo on an Arcane Caster early on to very difficult. For the purposes of explaining my "method," I will assume you are playing on unfair. If you are trying to solo with a wizard or non sylvan sorcerer, you will probably have a difficult time at the beginning. With that being said, carefully choosing the order in which you enter zones will greatly reduce your difficulty. If you are curious, here is a brief early game "tutorial" if you will, which I have stuck inside of spoilers.

Spoiler

1. Turn of XP sharing immediately after starting the game.
   
2. Early on you will probably want a few vanish potions, the purpose of which is so that if you are ambushed while traveling the overland map, you can escape.
3. You will obviously want to purchase some camp supplies.
4. Since you are solo, your 3 most important stats are perception, trickery and persuasion. If you have more than 3 points to allocate on level up, you can put them into other things but you really do want these. Perception has the highest priority of the 3.
   
5. After clearing Olegs, head to the undead who wants you to kill the Stag Lord. In the process you will meet the "Lantern King." This should also give you your third level up, provided you have turned off XP sharing.
6. If you are good aligned, head to the Thorn Ford and convince Kessel with the [Good] Dialogue option. If you are not good, but you are a caster that has an animal companion, you can head there and kill him as well. Otherwise, head to the Stag Lord's Father's house.
7. After clearing this out, head to the Old Sycamore. Tartucio won't be on the map yet, but you can clear out the area to gain 1-2 levels. You should be able to get to level 5 here. The first 2nd level spells you want are mirror image and, surprisingly, probably burning arc. The reason being is because it does damage to enemies even if they make the save, which will happen most of the time on unfair and as you are solo you will over level areas quickly and even if they make the save it will kill them.
8. After this you can head to the Tomb where Tartucio was. He will have left it by now, but that is ok. With access to level 2 spells clearing it out shouldn't be much of a hassle. You can also follow him out of the Tomb.
9. After this, head back to the Sycamore and clear the underside. After doing this you should be level 7 or 8. You will want resist energy for the fight with tartucio. I find a fairly easy way to clear this fight is to cast it on yourself, run right next to him and have him fireball himself as well as all the kobalds. They take double damage from the spell due to the unfair damage scaling, because he is casting it and it ends the fight almost immediately.
10. Clear the temple of Elk.
11. Somewhere between 7 and 10 you should try to free Octavia and Rag.
12. Clear up the remaining zones, then go deal with the Stag Lord.

Everything after 9 should be relatively easy, since at this point you are over the level of every enemy you will encounter.

It is worth noting that if you are playing solo, there are 2 zones where you will be forced to have a party. The first is when you are in the Season of Bloom and 1 person needs to kill the flower in the dream while the other kills it in reality. The second is doing the puzzles in that 1 crypt in the Varnhold Vanishing, however if you have an animal companion it is possible to solve them solo.

 

[Delterius]

Kineticists can do the rest.

they can do everything tbh

 

[Cryomancer]

The second is doing the puzzles in that 1 crypt in the Varnhold Vanishing, however if you have an animal companion it is possible to solve them solo.

Amazing post. Only a detail. I have heard that figurines can solve that puzzle too, however, I never got a figurine this point in the game.

 

[amurath]

On BG2, people say that is impossible to beat the game without a cleric, however, I soloed the game on Legacy of Bhaal(EE) as a necromancer. PFKM I tried to solo the game but failed... The reasons are many

• Resting on pfkm is far more complicated
• You don't start the game on mid level contrary to BG2:SoA. Lv 1 casters suffers a lot.
• There is no ultra powerful spells like Chain Contingency and Stop Time
• A lot of enemies will only take the full damage of a finger of death on a critical. You can't cast two lower resist + greater malison and make even a dragon has like 60% of chance of OHdying by FoD.
• There is no long duration summons
• There is no familiar who can detect nasty traps and without a cleric to heal attribute damage, a lot of damage to your INT/CHA(wiz/sorc) can mean that you can no longer cast spells
• Enemies cast way more nasty spells like feeblemind
• Enemies with 35+ SR are not uncommon and contrary to BG2, there are no LR to lower his "magic resistance"

I an not complaining about any information posted here. Only explaining why I failed on soloing the game as a caster. In fact, I like some trap designs and that you can't rest scum. But there are people who soloed the game as a sorcerer.

Depending on how you want to go about it (and what difficulty you try to do it on) it can range from being fairly easy to solo on an Arcane Caster early on to very difficult. For the purposes of explaining my "method," I will assume you are playing on unfair. If you are trying to solo with a wizard or non sylvan sorcerer, you will probably have a difficult time at the beginning. With that being said, carefully choosing the order in which you enter zones will greatly reduce your difficulty. If you are curious, here is a brief early game "tutorial" if you will, which I have stuck inside of spoilers.

Spoiler

1. Turn of XP sharing immediately after starting the game.
   
2. Early on you will probably want a few vanish potions, the purpose of which is so that if you are ambushed while traveling the overland map, you can escape.
3. You will obviously want to purchase some camp supplies.
4. Since you are solo, your 3 most important stats are perception, trickery and persuasion. If you have more than 3 points to allocate on level up, you can put them into other things but you really do want these. Perception has the highest priority of the 3.
   
5. After clearing Olegs, head to the undead who wants you to kill the Stag Lord. In the process you will meet the "Lantern King." This should also give you your third level up, provided you have turned off XP sharing.
6. If you are good aligned, head to the Thorn Ford and convince Kessel with the [Good] Dialogue option. If you are not good, but you are a caster that has an animal companion, you can head there and kill him as well. Otherwise, head to the Stag Lord's Father's house.
7. After clearing this out, head to the Old Sycamore. Tartucio won't be on the map yet, but you can clear out the area to gain 1-2 levels. You should be able to get to level 5 here. The first 2nd level spells you want are mirror image and, surprisingly, probably burning arc. The reason being is because it does damage to enemies even if they make the save, which will happen most of the time on unfair and as you are solo you will over level areas quickly and even if they make the save it will kill them.
8. After this you can head to the Tomb where Tartucio was. He will have left it by now, but that is ok. With access to level 2 spells clearing it out shouldn't be much of a hassle. You can also follow him out of the Tomb.
9. After this, head back to the Sycamore and clear the underside. After doing this you should be level 7 or 8. You will want resist energy for the fight with tartucio. I find a fairly easy way to clear this fight is to cast it on yourself, run right next to him and have him fireball himself as well as all the kobalds. They take double damage from the spell due to the unfair damage scaling, because he is casting it and it ends the fight almost immediately.
10. Clear the temple of Elk.
11. Somewhere between 7 and 10 you should try to free Octavia and Rag.
12. Clear up the remaining zones, then go deal with the Stag Lord.

Everything after 9 should be relatively easy, since at this point you are over the level of every enemy you will encounter.

It is worth noting that if you are playing solo, there are 2 zones where you will be forced to have a party. The first is when you are in the Season of Bloom and 1 person needs to kill the flower in the dream while the other kills it in reality. The second is doing the puzzles in that 1 crypt in the Varnhold Vanishing, however if you have an animal companion it is possible to solve them solo.

You can also do Ratnook Hill for early XP if you don't mind reloading. Waterlogged lowland gives you a chunk of XP as well. Yes, the wyvern figurine from Womb of Lamashtu can be used to complete the Sepulchre of Forgotten Heroes solo in combination with Haste/Expeditious Retreat.

 

[Sharpedge]

On BG2, people say that is impossible to beat the game without a cleric, however, I soloed the game on Legacy of Bhaal(EE) as a necromancer. PFKM I tried to solo the game but failed... The reasons are many

• Resting on pfkm is far more complicated
• You don't start the game on mid level contrary to BG2:SoA. Lv 1 casters suffers a lot.
• There is no ultra powerful spells like Chain Contingency and Stop Time
• A lot of enemies will only take the full damage of a finger of death on a critical. You can't cast two lower resist + greater malison and make even a dragon has like 60% of chance of OHdying by FoD.
• There is no long duration summons
• There is no familiar who can detect nasty traps and without a cleric to heal attribute damage, a lot of damage to your INT/CHA(wiz/sorc) can mean that you can no longer cast spells
• Enemies cast way more nasty spells like feeblemind
• Enemies with 35+ SR are not uncommon and contrary to BG2, there are no LR to lower his "magic resistance"

I an not complaining about any information posted here. Only explaining why I failed on soloing the game as a caster. In fact, I like some trap designs and that you can't rest scum. But there are people who soloed the game as a sorcerer.

Depending on how you want to go about it (and what difficulty you try to do it on) it can range from being fairly easy to solo on an Arcane Caster early on to very difficult. For the purposes of explaining my "method," I will assume you are playing on unfair. If you are trying to solo with a wizard or non sylvan sorcerer, you will probably have a difficult time at the beginning. With that being said, carefully choosing the order in which you enter zones will greatly reduce your difficulty. If you are curious, here is a brief early game "tutorial" if you will, which I have stuck inside of spoilers.

Spoiler

1. Turn of XP sharing immediately after starting the game.
   
2. Early on you will probably want a few vanish potions, the purpose of which is so that if you are ambushed while traveling the overland map, you can escape.
3. You will obviously want to purchase some camp supplies.
4. Since you are solo, your 3 most important stats are perception, trickery and persuasion. If you have more than 3 points to allocate on level up, you can put them into other things but you really do want these. Perception has the highest priority of the 3.
   
5. After clearing Olegs, head to the undead who wants you to kill the Stag Lord. In the process you will meet the "Lantern King." This should also give you your third level up, provided you have turned off XP sharing.
6. If you are good aligned, head to the Thorn Ford and convince Kessel with the [Good] Dialogue option. If you are not good, but you are a caster that has an animal companion, you can head there and kill him as well. Otherwise, head to the Stag Lord's Father's house.
7. After clearing this out, head to the Old Sycamore. Tartucio won't be on the map yet, but you can clear out the area to gain 1-2 levels. You should be able to get to level 5 here. The first 2nd level spells you want are mirror image and, surprisingly, probably burning arc. The reason being is because it does damage to enemies even if they make the save, which will happen most of the time on unfair and as you are solo you will over level areas quickly and even if they make the save it will kill them.
8. After this you can head to the Tomb where Tartucio was. He will have left it by now, but that is ok. With access to level 2 spells clearing it out shouldn't be much of a hassle. You can also follow him out of the Tomb.
9. After this, head back to the Sycamore and clear the underside. After doing this you should be level 7 or 8. You will want resist energy for the fight with tartucio. I find a fairly easy way to clear this fight is to cast it on yourself, run right next to him and have him fireball himself as well as all the kobalds. They take double damage from the spell due to the unfair damage scaling, because he is casting it and it ends the fight almost immediately.
10. Clear the temple of Elk.
11. Somewhere between 7 and 10 you should try to free Octavia and Rag.
12. Clear up the remaining zones, then go deal with the Stag Lord.

Everything after 9 should be relatively easy, since at this point you are over the level of every enemy you will encounter.

It is worth noting that if you are playing solo, there are 2 zones where you will be forced to have a party. The first is when you are in the Season of Bloom and 1 person needs to kill the flower in the dream while the other kills it in reality. The second is doing the puzzles in that 1 crypt in the Varnhold Vanishing, however if you have an animal companion it is possible to solve them solo.

You can also do Ratnook Hill for early XP if you don't mind reloading. Waterlogged lowland gives you a chunk of XP as well. Yes, the wyvern figurine from Womb of Lamashtu can be used to complete the Sepulchre of Forgotten Heroes solo in combination with Haste/Expeditious Retreat.

I included the Ratnook Hills in the "Clear up the remaining zones" tidbit. :D I wasn't aware about the Wyvern Figurine being able to complete that, its good to learn something new.