KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[hell bovine]

When D&D transitioned from 2nd to 3rd editions, HPs basically doubled. Dealing direct damage as a wizard post 2nd edition is a very sub-optimal strategy. Saving throws were also changed, and feats granting significant advantages to avoid spell effects (evasion, slippery mind, etc.) took a lot of wind of the wizard's sails. IMO, the 2nd edition mixture of spells was also a bit kinder to mages. We no longer get Horror as a Level 2 spell, for example. Many defensive spells also got majorly nerfed between 2nd and 3rd.

Baldur's Gate also had a lot of items to pump your spells per day, and tons of wands that packed a punch (because HP were lower). Once you get up in levels, your 3rd edition wizard will actually have more spells per day, but it takes time. Regardless, it's all about pumping DC and going for save or suck and save or die spells. All things are secondary to DC. Wizards are still king, but not by much--especially in pathfinder, and even less so in a CRPG.

Another thing is, spells in BG2 always hit. Here not, and this is because it's in fact a more faithful transposition of PNP rules. Touch attach, ranged attack all this shit (they were present in the 2nd ed. as well, but were not implemented in IE games). It's good in PNP for reasons... mostly because it's a team game, and you need to help each others and work together, so better buff than try hit and miss shit. Here, there's no team... just 1 guy controlling everyone. Sooooo, I would have liked a BG approach tbqh (also obviously all the cheese, spell triggers, contingencies, MORE SPELLS, time stop and what not).

I really miss the epic lich/dragon battles from an Edwin perspective.

BG2 had touch spells too. It's just that no one bothered with anything but harm, and even then the preferred way was either time stop, or that warrior ability that gave automatic criticals. Otherwise your harm could miss.

 

[ga♥]

When D&D transitioned from 2nd to 3rd editions, HPs basically doubled. Dealing direct damage as a wizard post 2nd edition is a very sub-optimal strategy. Saving throws were also changed, and feats granting significant advantages to avoid spell effects (evasion, slippery mind, etc.) took a lot of wind of the wizard's sails. IMO, the 2nd edition mixture of spells was also a bit kinder to mages. We no longer get Horror as a Level 2 spell, for example. Many defensive spells also got majorly nerfed between 2nd and 3rd.

Baldur's Gate also had a lot of items to pump your spells per day, and tons of wands that packed a punch (because HP were lower). Once you get up in levels, your 3rd edition wizard will actually have more spells per day, but it takes time. Regardless, it's all about pumping DC and going for save or suck and save or die spells. All things are secondary to DC. Wizards are still king, but not by much--especially in pathfinder, and even less so in a CRPG.

Another thing is, spells in BG2 always hit. Here not, and this is because it's in fact a more faithful transposition of PNP rules. Touch attach, ranged attack all this shit (they were present in the 2nd ed. as well, but were not implemented in IE games). It's good in PNP for reasons... mostly because it's a team game, and you need to help each others and work together, so better buff than try hit and miss shit. Here, there's no team... just 1 guy controlling everyone. Sooooo, I would have liked a BG approach tbqh (also obviously all the cheese, spell triggers, contingencies, MORE SPELLS, time stop and what not).

I really miss the epic lich/dragon battles from an Edwin perspective.

BG2 had touch spells too. It's just that no one bothered with anything but harm, and even then the preferred way was either time stop, or that warrior ability that gave automatic criticals. Otherwise your harm could miss.

Obviously. But take melf's acid arrow. You would never miss with that. Unlike PF acid arrow. Or anything else, really.
And as I said, that's how PNP works, so PF:KG is actually more similar to PNP.

 

[Lawntoilet]

I wish mages felt like in bg2 though, here they are just support chars, buffing and debuffing

Why, can't you - once you hit level 5 - start fireballing everything in sight if you are inclined to do so? You might not be able to obliterate everything as easily as in BG2 but let's be honest, BG2 except for a few encounters, was an easy game. And remember, you started the game in BG2 already at level ~7 iirc. In BG1 mages supposedly died when a kobold farted in their direction, compare P:K at low levels with that.

Plus it was much easier to rest-spam in BG2 (despite the fact that you also supposedly were under time pressure to rescue Imoen/find Irenicus), which made mages way more powerful. In Kingmaker I try to push until my party hits Exhaustion all the time because I want to save as much time as possible for Kingdom stuff, and you can't take that many camping supplies into big dungeons because you need to save encumbrance weight to drag around all your loot (these are good things).

 

[ga♥]

Kingdom management is pissing me off. Forget that I am 80 hours in and my BP per week is 39 forcing me to sell everything to buy BP (probably already spent 300K or something)... every event ends in a Disaster or a Failure and I have it on easy. Seriously considering turning it on auto.

 

[hell bovine]

Obviously. But take melf's acid arrow. You would never miss with that. Unlike PF acid arrow. Or anything else, really.
And as I said, that's how PNP works, so PF:KG is actually more similar to PNP.

Well, I never bothered with the acid arrow in BG2 either. I'd say PK is more similar to IWD when it comes to magic users, but with more variety in spellcasters. Tristian with one level in serpentine is rocking hold person, for example, whereas you could not modify spells like that in IE games. Of course you won't get anything close to improved alacrity, but that was a game breaking ability.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Kingdom management is pissing me off. Forget that I am 80 hours in and my BP per week is 39 forcing me to sell everything to buy BP (probably already spent 300K or something)... every event ends in a Disaster or a Failure and I have it on easy. Seriously considering turning it on auto.

What are your kingdom stat levels and your advisor bonuses? Why are they so bad that you're always failing?

 

[Parabalus]

Any primer on the time limits in the game? Can I afford a single rest in Ch1 except the forced ones?

 

[ga♥]

Any primer on the time limits in the game? Can I afford a single rest in Ch1 except the forced ones?

A single rest? wtf? Time limits are really generous, especiallly Ch1. I basically did everything, ultra slow, going back and forth to places to check for new things, wandering around to find new location through perception and in the end I still had like a month left.

Its when the kingdom management starts that you should get anxious.

 

[ga♥]

Kingdom management is pissing me off. Forget that I am 80 hours in and my BP per week is 39 forcing me to sell everything to buy BP (probably already spent 300K or something)... every event ends in a Disaster or a Failure and I have it on easy. Seriously considering turning it on auto.

What are your kingdom stat levels and your advisor bonuses? Why are they so bad that you're always failing?

I don't think kingdom stats have anything to do with events success or not (am I wrong?). Shouldn't it be tied to advisors skill? And I even did the research to increase Tsanna skill (she's now like +7 on divine) and she fails everything! I have to save scum everytime.

 

[ArchAngel]

I wish mages felt like in bg2 though, here they are just support chars, buffing and debuffing

Why, can't you - once you hit level 5 - start fireballing everything in sight if you are inclined to do so? You might not be able to obliterate everything as easily as in BG2 but let's be honest, BG2 except for a few encounters, was an easy game. And remember, you started the game in BG2 already at level ~7 iirc. In BG1 mages supposedly died when a kobold farted in their direction, compare P:K at low levels with that.

When D&D transitioned from 2nd to 3rd editions, HPs basically doubled. Dealing direct damage as a wizard post 2nd edition is a very sub-optimal strategy. Saving throws were also changed, and feats granting significant advantages to avoid spell effects (evasion, slippery mind, etc.) took a lot of wind of the wizard's sails. IMO, the 2nd edition mixture of spells was also a bit kinder to mages. We no longer get Horror as a Level 2 spell, for example. Many defensive spells also got majorly nerfed between 2nd and 3rd.

Baldur's Gate also had a lot of items to pump your spells per day, and tons of wands that packed a punch (because HP were lower). Once you get up in levels, your 3rd edition wizard will actually have more spells per day, but it takes time. Regardless, it's all about pumping DC and going for save or suck and save or die spells. All things are secondary to DC. Wizards are still king, but not by much--especially in pathfinder, and even less so in a CRPG.

You should still be able to make casters that can deal huge amount of damage if that's your thing. Granted, there is more HP or mitigation around but also more tools to increase damage that weren't available in 2nd edition. The end result is that dealing damage with spells might be suboptimal - sure, correct. But did it become so weak to be an unworkable option? No, it did not.

As to mages being in general slightly weaker relative to other classes, I can only see it as a good thing. Overall in 2nd edition past early levels non-casters sometimes felt like a redundant addition to casters. They sometimes STILL do. But that's an old discussion, no need to go there.

We need one greater Maximize rod. Then we prepare a quickened spell and use that rod to cast it also maximized. Then we have another Empowered spell that we also use that rod to also cast maximized. That means more than 40d6 damage maximized of course in one round. From range.

 

[Thonius]

I am too drained from dicking around broken endgame to say anything about it, and I wanted to at least give my part on steam so maybe devs would think about it.

Long story short I wonder if they should try to salvage last true chapter, or scrap it completely and replace with something simplier.

Slogging around old areas fighting repeated monsters under effect of that curse is boring.

House At the Edge of Time had enough copypasted monster packs, but some parts of it were OK anyway. But it still overstays its welcome.

Endgame enemies are hilariously OP, and your party feels underleveled when fighting demigods/gods or just packs of CR19 critters. The slog before it is even more boring tho.



The only good news is - in the final final boss location I found Dart +5. And it works and has animation and everything.

If they made animations for darts then why the f*** aren't darts normally available from the start? In case of slings, as I understand, they didn't make the animations so that's A reason. But in this case... weird.

Rushed release. Same with slings, javelins. They had no time to make item balancing and shit.

 

[Incendax]

Damage spells are fine in Kingmaker. The sheer number of encounters you can start with a fireball (or equivalent) is massive, and damage spells often guarantee some damage in the early/mid game where melee attacks guarantee nothing.

That said, stacking buffs on a couple martial badasses turns them into wrecking balls.

 

[TheEntitledOne]

How is stealth in this game? Little more than scouting ahead for the party + Stealth attacks or is there more to it?

 

[ArchAngel]

Two things:
1. I just tried the Javelin I found. It works with shield in other hand and it has an animation and all... this game will need an Enhanced Edition before it is finished...
2. I managed to critically fail an Opportunity and got penalties for my Barony... whoever said you cannot get penalties from failing Opportunity was wrong

 

[ga♥]

How is stealth in this game? Little more than scouting ahead for the party + Stealth attacks or is there more to it?

I have no idea how it works in details, but you can scout, gain loot without a fight, get some skillcheck in dialogues, evade random encounters and some bonus to attacks (forget backstab 200x though). end.

 

[ga♥]

Two things:
1. I just tried the Javelin I found. It works with shield in other hand and it has an animation and all... this game will need an Enhanced Edition before it is finished...
2. I managed to critically fail an Opportunity and got penalties for my Barony... whoever said you cannot get penalties from failing Opportunity was wrong

1 - I gave the javelin to amiri; not impressed so far.
2 - Yeah, if you get a Disaster (and I get those a lot) you get penalties even from that.

Also, anyone know how to deal with the Giant of nok-nok quest? He's ravaging my lands since time immemorial... I assigned Kessen (warden) twice and the guards didn't find him, I assigned Amiri (general) and same outcome... what have I to do?

 

[Damned Registrations]

Think I will reroll as a druid. I was expecting a lot out of the bajillion uses of extended (and augmented and superior) monster summoning but it's value is way toned down due to the summons not being under your control. Can't use them to scout, or set off traps, or interupt ranged enemies, or trip or grapple dog pile shit. Can't even use it multiple times to summon a proper horde or pick various elements or anything.

 

[bataille]

Think I will reroll as a druid. I was expecting a lot out of the bajillion uses of extended (and augmented and superior) monster summoning but it's value is way toned down due to the summons not being under your control. Can't use them to scout, or set off traps, or interupt ranged enemies, or trip or grapple dog pile shit. Can't even use it multiple times to summon a proper horde or pick various elements or anything.

Druid is super underwhelming. Outside of providing a leopard/smilodon, it's just a bark- stoneskin and bull's strength generator. All those terrain spells are barely usable in real time. Might not be bad with elven proficiencies and all the archery feats, though.

 

[ga♥]

Think I will reroll as a druid. I was expecting a lot out of the bajillion uses of extended (and augmented and superior) monster summoning but it's value is way toned down due to the summons not being under your control. Can't use them to scout, or set off traps, or interupt ranged enemies, or trip or grapple dog pile shit. Can't even use it multiple times to summon a proper horde or pick various elements or anything.

Druid is super underwhelming. Outside of providing a leopard/smilodon, it's just a bark- stoneskin and bull's strength generator. All those terrain spells are barely usable in real time. Might not be bad with elven proficiencies and all the archery feats, though.

Really? I saw some Twitch stream of a guy with a "Defender of true world" perma morphed in a shambling mound and he stomped everything? I wanted to try that for my next build!

 

[ArchAngel]

Fuck. I was doing pre combat buffing and had Octavia cast Reduce Person on herself like usual. I then go to cast her next buff I see all spells icons are now gray and where there should be Octavia I got a Boar standing... fucking icons for Reduce Person and Baleful Polymorph are same

 

[Jarpie]

I don't get how people can fail quests due time, the time limits I've seen so far (Just got to the Varnhold) has been very generous so far. I wonder if that changes in the later chapters.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Kingdom management is pissing me off. Forget that I am 80 hours in and my BP per week is 39 forcing me to sell everything to buy BP (probably already spent 300K or something)... every event ends in a Disaster or a Failure and I have it on easy. Seriously considering turning it on auto.

What are your kingdom stat levels and your advisor bonuses? Why are they so bad that you're always failing?

I don't think kingdom stats have anything to do with events success or not (am I wrong?). Shouldn't it be tied to advisors skill? And I even did the research to increase Tsanna skill (she's now like +7 on divine) and she fails everything! I have to save scum everytime.

I believe the modifier is (Kingdom Stat Ranking)+(Advisor's Stat Modifier)+(Training).
For example when I hover over the +16 mod I have for Harrim it says "Divine +6 (Wis)"

 

[Serus]

Fuck. I was doing pre combat buffing and had Octavia cast Reduce Person on herself like usual. I then go to cast her next buff I see all spells icons are now gray and where there should be Octavia I got a Boar standing... fucking icons for Reduce Person and Baleful Polymorph are same

So she basically became

Suits her well.

 

[toro]

Any primer on the time limits in the game? Can I afford a single rest in Ch1 except the forced ones?

I wrote several times on this thread but I think it's worth repeating: ALWAYS USE CAMPING SUPPLIES!

Then you should use Galt Ragout or Fish-on-a-Stick in order to postpone Fatigue for 4 hours.

One last advice: Don't EVER full heal when camping! Go to the Inn and sleep for one night. The difference is like 6 days for full heal and 8 hours.

If you do thing semi-correct then you can clear the chapter1 map by day 45 and then you can just fuck around or kill the Stag Lord.

 

[toro]

Kingdom management is pissing me off. Forget that I am 80 hours in and my BP per week is 39 forcing me to sell everything to buy BP (probably already spent 300K or something)... every event ends in a Disaster or a Failure and I have it on easy. Seriously considering turning it on auto.

Have you done the Ancient Curse quests?