KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Hamster]

level 1
Stratagemin2
Score hidden · 1 hour ago
For Chris Avellone: What was the hardest part about writing Nok-Nok? And did you get to write for any other characters?

level 2
ChrisAvellone
Score hidden · 46 minutes ago
A few things:

Getting the language right (it's a matter of mixing what people might mistake for guttural vs. throwing the "cunning" undercurrent - and other reasons explained in NN's dialogue). NN's viewpoint is that humans are the ones that mangle language, not goblins.

The second challenge was getting my head around the religions in Golarion and making sure the religious aspects (Lamashtu) was being delivered properly... I don't do a lot of religion-focused characters (or if I do, they're more focused on a cause, like Kaelyn, in Mask of the Betrayer), so sometimes that's a challenge for me - but hey, challenges and doing things outside your comfort zone I think improve one's craft, so that's good.

While I worked on other aspects of the writing (Alexander Mishulin and Alexander Komzolov, the Lead Writer did the pass of companions and their arcs, I wrote NN's specific arc with some changes and all the dialogue), I didn't write any other companions. I did backstory for one other companion (but we downscaled the initial list of companions in order to make sure we had time to polish the existing ones - it wasn't b/c the character was out of scope, it was an overall quality issue, and it's smart to adjust early - it's better to have companions that shine vs. a larger cast of weaker/shallow ones).

 

[Cross]

the game has taken efforts to reward those who pursue non-binary paths, which is great.

 

[bataille]

A good idea would be to ask whether the russians wrote the game in English or someone translated it for them. Seeing how one of the employees couldn't even pronounce the word character in the trailer, the texts may be either badly written or translated, and both of these scenarios are far from perfect.

 

[YanBG]

So what's the general consensus? Does the game have SJW stuff in it or not? I haven't really been following the development of this game, I'm on the fence, I seriously doubt a (Russian?) developer are into that, but have seen a few post that suggest the Pathfinder publisher have a diversity mandate of some kind and there are mandatory boxes to be ticked.

Yeah the publisher KOCH media are german but they were involved with KCD too, so who knows.

A good idea would be to ask whether the russians wrote the game in English or someone translated it for them.

Might have been in german, seeing the latest video was in that language.

 

[santino27]

A good idea would be to ask whether the russians wrote the game in English or someone translated it for them. Seeing how one of the employees couldn't even pronounce the word character in the trailer, the texts may be either badly written or translated, and both of these scenatios are far from perfect.

Chris Avellone Thoughts?

 

[aweigh]

a nice story with c&c

Just reading those words makes me shudder in revulsion nowadays.

 

[aweigh]

couldn't even pronounce the word character

Pronounciation and speaking is completely seperate from reading and writing a language. Your example has no bearing on the quality on the (possible) quality of the writing.

 

[bataille]

couldn't even pronounce the word character

Pronounciation and speaking is completely seperate from reading and writing a language. Your example has no bearing on the quality on the (possible) quality of the writing.

A person who lacks such basic knowledge (which in itself is likely a sign of absense of systematic education in the language) is very unlikely to possess the titanic grammatical, lexicological, or simply anecdotal corpus of information required to competently write half a million words for an RPG. It's such an obvious correlation. Preparing for 'seperate' galore in this ultimate classic.

 

[Hamster]

Seeing how one of the employees couldn't even pronounce the word character in the trailer

So it was you.

 

[deuxhero]

Some of the simple (not valuable) loot is varied. It is no more than 10% of the loot in the game. All the great stuff is handmade and handplaced

So something along the lines of the footlockers in the barracks will contain 2d8*10 GP worth of treasure (be it potions, gems, or other equipment) while minibosses and end-dungeon loot are fixed? About as good as we can get in this era of random loot decline.

 

[aweigh]

You don't need to know how to speak a language to write it. Speaking and writing are seperate skills.

 

[bataille]

Seeing how one of the employees couldn't even pronounce the word character in the trailer

So it was you.

View attachment 9610

Nope, it wasn't me. It's just the most jarring aspect of that trailer. People bound to notice these things.

The trailer is good, though. Very unorthodox when compared to the banal boring western stuff. Personally, I don't remember seeing a trailer that was about dealing 81 damage with a light pick or killing ogres using six wizards. The russky probably wrote the script themselves. It's one of the reasons I'm still veeeery optimistic about the game's general direction. Scepticism about the texts aside, I'm keeping fingers crossed for some Evil Islands goodness.

 

[YanBG]

Well i can play it in russian too(usually skip the dialogues anyway), so won't matter for me.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.rpgsite.net/interview/7...-avellone-on-storyline-writing-and-characters

Pathfinder: Kingmaker Interview with Chris Avellone on storyline, writing, and characters
by Adam Vitale, 20 September, 2018

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is set to release next week for PC - the first CRPG within the Pathfinder tabletop lore. We had a chance to ask a few questions with Narrative Designer Chris Avellone - known for his work on several Black Isle Studios and Obsidian Entertainment RPGs such as Icewind Dale and Pillars of Eternity. Here he discusses the game's storyline, writing, and characters.

Check out the interview with Chris below, and be sure to hit up our hands-on impressions of the game from PAX West last month.

RPG Site: What sets Pathfinder: Kingmaker apart from other CRPG storylines?

Chris Avellone: The setting, the companions, and the challenges you face set it apart - in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, it’s not about squaring off against an evil antagonist. It’s more nuanced than that, and presents the player with a lot of hard choices in being a leader and ruling a kingdom. And sometimes that means choosing the common good (or greater evil) over your own interests - or those of your companions and allies. Still, I think those choices are what make for the best stories.

RPG Site: What is your favorite aspect of Pathfinder: Kingmaker's writing?

CA: It’s just plain fun. The goblins in Kingmaker, for example, are an unusual take on the tried-and-true goblin trope, so being able to play around with that in companion writing (I wrote the goblin companion, Nok-Nok) was a blast. I haven’t had the chance to do so much comedy (mixed in with some more serious themes) since Fallout New Vegas: Old World Blues.

Also, Pathfinder as a franchise is very player-centric for a role-playing setting. It allows for a great deal of open-world exploration and allows the players to adventure at their own pace and literally create their own adventures - really, it’s encouraged. Sometimes RPGs can get bogged down on mandating a storyline or forcing a linear path, but Kingmaker bucks that trend, and I think that makes for a better RPG since it lets the player participate in the story more.

RPG Site: What other writing projects of yours would you compare Pathfinder: Kingmaker to?

CA: I’m not sure there’s a strict comparison, but it very much has the feel of the old Black Isle Studios isometric games we did with BioWare’s Infinity Engine. It has far more story than Icewind Dale, and more combat and system options than Planescape: Torment, however, so even the comparisons aren’t one-to-one.



RPG Site: Is Pathfinder: Kingmaker more about the world it takes place in or the characters within it?

CA: It’s about three things (at least) - one is your character’s journey and what decisions you make in creating a kingdom of your own … even if you abstain from ruling it. Secondly, there is a story playing out in the world that brings you in direct conflict with ancient forces at work - the intersection and unraveling of this plot is key to the adventure. Lastly, the game is also very much about your companions, and their presence adds an additional narrative layer to the game - they are woven into the plot, so they aren’t there simply as window dressing, they help move the story forward.

Those are only three things, however - the game is about much more than that, and it allows the player to explore other nations and cultures of Golarion (even ones outside the Stolen Lands - you’ll see these cultures play out with people you meet in the adventure who come to your kingdom as diplomats, travelers, merchants, and more).

RPG Site: Do I have to be familiar with Pathfinder lore to get the most out of Pathfinder: Kingmaker?

CA: No, that would be a difficult task - what I like about Pathfinder’s world is that it’s easy to get into, but as you explore it, there’s a lot of discoverable depth to it (there’s countless modules and sourcebooks related to the world of Golarion, the surrounding planes, and the adventures that take place within it). The game’s taken the same approach - it’s easy to get into, but as you explore the Stolen Lands, you’ll find an equal amount of depth in the allies, antagonists, and towns and nations you interact with.

RPG Site: Is choice (branching narrative paths) a factor in Pathfinder: Kingmaker's writing, or is the narrative given mostly a static one all players will experience?

CA: Definitely branching in multiple ways - through narrative choices, kingdom choices that impact the narrative, and alignment-based choices across the game. Kingmaker’s Creative Director (Alexander Mishulin) and the Lead Writer (Alexander Komzolov) worked very hard in introducing reactivity and branching quests from the start of the game to the finish, and it was great to be able to work with them on developing those quests.

-

Pathfinder: Kingmaker is set to release on September 25.

 

[Shadenuat]

unarthodox

unorthodox.

A person who lacks such basic knowledge (which in itself is likely a sign of absense of systematic education in the language) is very unlikely to possess the titanic grammatical, lexicological, or simply anecdotal corpus of information required to competently write half a million words for an RPG

especially on 5 languages, possibly including spanish.

 

[bataille]

Well i can play it in russian too(usually skip the dialogues anyway), so won't matter for me.

If they wrote it in Russian in the first place, though; otherwise, what's the point? I'd much rather play it in Russian as well since I'm at least C1 level proficient in it. However, the point is to avoid reading translations/texts written by non-native speakers.

 

[santino27]

couldn't even pronounce the word character

Pronounciation and speaking is completely seperate from reading and writing a language. Your example has no bearing on the quality on the (possible) quality of the writing.

That's fair, but there have been plenty of examples in the kickstarter updates of grammatical mistakes likely resulting from the writer not being a native english speaker. Obviously, kickstarter updates are probably less rigorously scrutinized than the game text, but I think the question is valid.

 

[deuxhero]

I hope the non-binary good/evil thing allows for something like a good kingdom that practices "no better friend, no worse enemy" instead of forgiveness.

 

[Tigranes]

bataille people make typos.

 

[bataille]

on

In.

Spoiler

 

[bataille]

bataille people make typos.

It's not the point. Nobody is perfect, but having a non-native English speaker writing the game is a pretty serious concern.

 

[YanBG]

So something along the lines of the footlockers in the barracks will contain 2d8*10 GP worth of treasure (be it potions, gems, or other equipment) while minibosses and end-dungeon loot are fixed? About as good as we can get in this era of random loot decline.

Hm non-random loot might be one of the reasons it could flop imo, how was that done OS2?

Re writing, they should just get JarlFrank, maybe for the dlcs?

 

[Tigranes]

bataille people make typos.

It's not the point. Nobody is perfect, but having a non-native English speaker writing the game is a pretty serious concern.

OK, but the fact that the guy made a typo is entirely irrelevant. It's not supporting evidence for your claim. If they made 80 typos, it might be.

At the end of the day, 90% of natural English speakers are shitty writers as well. And whether with Russians or Brits, the only way to really tell is to read their writing, not look at their PhDs or ask them to spell pulchritudinous.

 

[Shadenuat]

on

In.

Spoiler

maybe I left it there

on

purpose

bataille people make typos.

It's not the point. Nobody is perfect, but having a non-native English speaker writing the game is a pretty serious concern.

OK, but the fact that the guy made a typo is entirely irrelevant. It's not supporting evidence for your claim. If they made 80 typos, it might be.

At the end of the day, 90% of natural English speakers are shitty writers as well. And whether with Russians or Brits, the only way to really tell is to read their writing, not look at their PhDs or ask them to spell pulchritudinous.

why do people think they don't have translators, editors & bilinguists for the main, most important version of the game? Am I the only one here who finds the whole premise dumb?

 

[Lacrymas]

Except it's pretty well-known a lot of foreigners know the English language and its rules (however arbitrary they are) better than native speakers, soooooo. I can talk circles around an American acquaintance of mine.