Pathfinder: Kingmaker sales and the single-player real-time-with-pause ceiling

[rusty_shackleford]

>I just wish it wasn't smeared with the trash fights RTwP tends to be infested with. Trash is usually associated with a dumpster, though.
Kingmaker isn't well balanced for the story mode difficulty. Nor is it will balanced for any of the lower difficulties, actually. The game is best to be played on Unfair. Hell, Unfair should be the base difficulty for the whole game. Throw in forced iron man mode too. In any case, you don't see me bloviating at people who play at the lower difficulties.

Kingmaker isn't well balanced at all because a large portion of the ruleset is missing or not implemented properly.
e.g., one of the most common tactics of using delay poison + cloudkill relies on broken mechanics.

 

[Pink Eye]

>I just wish it wasn't smeared with the trash fights RTwP tends to be infested with. Trash is usually associated with a dumpster, though.
Kingmaker isn't well balanced for the story mode difficulty. Nor is it will balanced for any of the lower difficulties, actually. The game is best to be played on Unfair. Hell, Unfair should be the base difficulty for the whole game. Throw in forced iron man mode too. In any case, you don't see me bloviating at people who play at the lower difficulties.

Kingmaker isn't well balanced at all because a large portion of the ruleset is missing or not implemented properly.

I can go over the mechanics of Pathfinder: Kingmaker and compare them to the Pathfinder RPG, if you so desire. But instead of doing that. I will instead say this, the biggest concessions the developers made were flanking and sneak attacks.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

>Why though?
I mistook that as a sleight. Apologies. Can never know when people are being contemptuous on the 'dex

Nah, it's good to have people who are passionate about games that aren't just shitposting*.

*I'd include both haters and pure fanboys into the latter category.

 

[Pink Eye]

>Why though?
I mistook that as a sleight. Apologies. Can never know when people are being contemptuous on the 'dex

Nah, it's good to have people who are passionate about games that aren't just shitposting*.

*I'd include both haters and pure fanboys into the latter category.

Eh, Kingmaker does have issues. But people are too busy arguing about the most ridiculous of stuff. It's hard to fathom if some of these individuals even played the game.

 

[Desiderius]

>I just wish it wasn't smeared with the trash fights RTwP tends to be infested with. Trash is usually associated with a dumpster, though.
Kingmaker isn't well balanced for the story mode difficulty. Nor is it will balanced for any of the lower difficulties, actually. The game is best to be played on Unfair. Hell, Unfair should be the base difficulty for the whole game. Throw in forced iron man mode too. In any case, you don't see me bloviating at people who play at the lower difficulties.

Kingmaker isn't well balanced at all because a large portion of the ruleset is missing or not implemented properly.
e.g., one of the most common tactics of using delay poison + cloudkill relies on broken mechanics.

Exception, rule, etc... Just don't cast Clouds. Easy fix.

 

[Desiderius]

>Why though?
I mistook that as a sleight. Apologies. Can never know when people are being contemptuous on the 'dex

Everyone is being contemptuous on the 'dex. The opposite of love isn't hate but indifference.

 

[Pink Eye]

>Why though?
I mistook that as a sleight. Apologies. Can never know when people are being contemptuous on the 'dex

Everyone is being contemptuous on the 'dex. The opposite of love isn't hate but indifference.

Eh, years of 4chan didn't prepare me for this. Someone call the captain, I'm pulling out!

 

[Pink Eye]

If we were to have an actual discussion on the weaknesses of Kingmaker's combat I'd go something like this:
>Game doesn't do a good job of responding to player tactics, i.e choke points are the most effective tactic. Due to the enemy lacking the sense to flush. Instead the enemy will rush one by one.
>Enemies stand around and let player initiate the fight; thus giving the player the advantage, unwillingly. This allows the player to force the game to fight under their terms.
>Once you reach mid game content, you'll be prebuffing, a lot. Therefore, you will be quite strong. Yet, enemy doesn't make an effort to dispel, or penetrate, your defenses and buffs.
>Enemy AI is quite weak, and will always run and auto attack. They're not as responsive as they should be.
>Flanking is criminally under utilized.
>Enemy spellcaster kits are severally under utilized in Kingmaker.
>Kingmaker lacks a diverse group of enemies. You will always see the same mobs. Which results in the same tactic, over and over again.
>Encounter Design is not very creative. In Tactical Turn Based games, developers can position enemies in a way that results in interesting engagements. Where else in Kingmaker, mobs are placed in close groups. This results in not much variation in how engagements play out. As you are always moving in one direction then auto attacking enemies to death.
>Enemies don't take advantage of the different classes and archetypes that Kingmaker provides. It's always the same "Barbarian","Rogue","Wizard", and so on. This in turn results in boring encounters.
>The highest difficulty, Unfair, doesn't make the game as punishing as it should. Once you've mastered it, it becomes mind numbingly easy. High difficulty modifiers should serve to constantly challenge the player. Not allow the player to stagnate in their tactical play. The player should always be adapting and learning.

Really, the whole "RTwP vs TB" is the most banal discussion that I've ever participated in regards to this game. We're on the Codex, are we not? Surely we can do better than "RTwP vs TB". I expect this kind of pedestrian trite from steam or 4chan.

 

[Shadenuat]

Pink if able ask them if they're going to implement "from 5 stinking clouds enemy is only affected by 1 of highest level", as in pnp

 

[Pink Eye]

Pink if able ask them if they're going to implement "from 5 stinking clouds enemy is only affected by 1 of highest level", as in pnp

I am going to save my feedback for the alpha. Which should be coming at the end of this month, hopefully. If they do another AMA or twitch stream where they ask questions; I will for sure see if I can spam them about that.

 

[Xamenos]

e.g., one of the most common tactics of using delay poison + cloudkill relies on broken mechanics.

That's not remotely true. Against enemies that matter Cloudkill is worse than Stinking Cloud. Cloudkill drains enemies only a couple CON each turn, leading to a veeeery slow death with the enemy being at full combat effectiveness for the entire duration. Meanwhile, with Stinking Cloud enemies are out of the fight entirely with only one lost fort save. And even if Delay Poison was implemented correctly, you'd never notice your character starting barfing a few hours after combat when Delay's duration runs out.

 

[Desiderius]

Pink if able ask them if they're going to implement "from 5 stinking clouds enemy is only affected by 1 of highest level", as in pnp

I am going to save my feedback for the alpha. Which should be coming at the end of this month, hopefully. If they do another AMA or twitch stream where they ask questions; I will for sure see if I can spam them about that.

Let me know how to sign up for the alpha too, pls.

 

[Pink Eye]

Pink if able ask them if they're going to implement "from 5 stinking clouds enemy is only affected by 1 of highest level", as in pnp

I am going to save my feedback for the alpha. Which should be coming at the end of this month, hopefully. If they do another AMA or twitch stream where they ask questions; I will for sure see if I can spam them about that.

Let me know how to sign up for the alpha too, pls.

I think Owlcat will be contacting the Codex about that kind of stuff. In case you missed the comment: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...-the-codex-crusade.131837/page-5#post-6600908
The most important bit:
>We will contact our rpgcodex fans regarding the rewards and their distribution later.

I could try spamming them in Discord and seeing if they respond, if you want.

 

[NJClaw]

Russians have been producing the world's finest literature for centuries.

Owlcat is a continuation of that tradition.

My aasimar seeing another aasimar and telling her "wow you are a fucking aasimar, I've never seen one before, wow, what's it like?" is the kind of surrealist shit I crave for.

 

[NJClaw]

If we were to have an actual discussion on the weaknesses of Kingmaker's combat I'd go something like this:
>Game doesn't do a good job of responding to player tactics, i.e choke points are the most effective tactic. Due to the enemy lacking the sense to flush. Instead the enemy will rush one by one.
>Enemies stand around and let player initiate the fight; thus giving the player the advantage, unwillingly. This allows the player to force the game to fight under their terms.
>Once you reach mid game content, you'll be prebuffing, a lot. Therefore, you will be quite strong. Yet, enemy doesn't make an effort to dispel, or penetrate, your defenses and buffs.
>Enemy AI is quite weak, and will always run and auto attack. They're not as responsive as they should be.
>Flanking is criminally under utilized.
>Enemy spellcaster kits are severally under utilized in Kingmaker.
>Kingmaker lacks a diverse group of enemies. You will always see the same mobs. Which results in the same tactic, over and over again.
>Encounter Design is not very creative. In Tactical Turn Based games, developers can position enemies in a way that results in interesting engagements. Where else in Kingmaker, mobs are placed in close groups. This results in not much variation in how engagements play out. As you are always moving in one direction then auto attacking enemies to death.
>Enemies don't take advantage of the different classes and archetypes that Kingmaker provides. It's always the same "Barbarian","Rogue","Wizard", and so on. This in turn results in boring encounters.
>The highest difficulty, Unfair, doesn't make the game as punishing as it should. Once you've mastered it, it becomes mind numbingly easy. High difficulty modifiers should serve to constantly challenge the player. Not allow the player to stagnate in their tactical play. The player should always be adapting and learning.

Really, the whole "RTwP vs TB" is the most banal discussion that I've ever participated in regards to this game. We're on the Codex, are we not? Surely we can do better than "RTwP vs TB". I expect this kind of pedestrian trite from steam or 4chan.

Yeah, I was thinking about creating a "Kingmaker and its objective flaws" thread and this summarizes all my points regarding gameplay. In the end, it all comes to the fact that AI is almost non-existent in this game. Apart from certain bosses, every single enemy behaves in the same exact way, from the first thylacine you encounter to the last wild hunt toon you have to slay.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Russians have been producing the world's finest literature for centuries.

Owlcat is a continuation of that tradition.

…by adapting a module written by americans?

 

[Pink Eye]

If we were to have an actual discussion on the weaknesses of Kingmaker's combat I'd go something like this:
>Game doesn't do a good job of responding to player tactics, i.e choke points are the most effective tactic. Due to the enemy lacking the sense to flush. Instead the enemy will rush one by one.
>Enemies stand around and let player initiate the fight; thus giving the player the advantage, unwillingly. This allows the player to force the game to fight under their terms.
>Once you reach mid game content, you'll be prebuffing, a lot. Therefore, you will be quite strong. Yet, enemy doesn't make an effort to dispel, or penetrate, your defenses and buffs.
>Enemy AI is quite weak, and will always run and auto attack. They're not as responsive as they should be.
>Flanking is criminally under utilized.
>Enemy spellcaster kits are severally under utilized in Kingmaker.
>Kingmaker lacks a diverse group of enemies. You will always see the same mobs. Which results in the same tactic, over and over again.
>Encounter Design is not very creative. In Tactical Turn Based games, developers can position enemies in a way that results in interesting engagements. Where else in Kingmaker, mobs are placed in close groups. This results in not much variation in how engagements play out. As you are always moving in one direction then auto attacking enemies to death.
>Enemies don't take advantage of the different classes and archetypes that Kingmaker provides. It's always the same "Barbarian","Rogue","Wizard", and so on. This in turn results in boring encounters.
>The highest difficulty, Unfair, doesn't make the game as punishing as it should. Once you've mastered it, it becomes mind numbingly easy. High difficulty modifiers should serve to constantly challenge the player. Not allow the player to stagnate in their tactical play. The player should always be adapting and learning.

Really, the whole "RTwP vs TB" is the most banal discussion that I've ever participated in regards to this game. We're on the Codex, are we not? Surely we can do better than "RTwP vs TB". I expect this kind of pedestrian trite from steam or 4chan.

Yeah, I was thinking about creating a "Kingmaker and its objective flaws" thread and this summarizes all my points regarding gameplay. In the end, it all comes to the fact that AI is almost non-existent in this game. Apart from certain bosses, every single enemy behaves in the same exact way, from the first thylacine you encounter to the last wild hunt toon you have to slay.

You should go ahead and create the thread. I am interested to see what criticisms you come up with.

 

[Desiderius]

Russians have been producing the world's finest literature for centuries.

Owlcat is a continuation of that tradition.

…by adapting a module written by americans?

While there are proverbially no second acts in American lives, nearly the opposite is the case in the land of Chekhov. So it's no surprise that the writing in P:K sets you up with companions who begin as caricatures of the Poz archetypes which have lately plagued Western games, then spends the rest of the game perceptively subverting those archetypes.

But nonetheless it is an American who ends up stealing the show. Avellone's Goblins are a treatment of Primal Evil through a child's eyes to rival Tolkien's Primal Good. Evil is much too important to be taken seriously, and every line from Nok-nok and friends and relatives (Kobolds and Mites) is a joy.

 

[Desiderius]

Russians have been producing the world's finest literature for centuries.

Owlcat is a continuation of that tradition.

My aasimar seeing another aasimar and telling her "wow you are a fucking aasimar, I've never seen one before, wow, what's it like?" is the kind of surrealist shit I crave for.

Angels in Golaria