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Pathfinder: Kingmaker's combat is more of a clusterfuck than Deadfire's

fantadomat

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LoL butthurt to the max. Still sour that kingmaker sold better and people are still playing it LoL. What a sad little cunt you are. Also you are just showing a hand picked screenshots to back your agenda. Deadfire was clusterfuck and not only in effects. The fucking combat log is unreadable at best.

:npc:

literally picking a screenshot of one of the fights where the chaos of the spread of oil and fire is the fucking point

also D:OS 2 sold better than both these games :mixedemotions:
:nocountryforshitposters:
Nigga every battle in dos2 turns in to a cluster fuck,everyone gets covered in gas,fire,ice,slime and what not. You are just butthurt and disingenuous.
 

ArchAngel

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While I agree that certain battles can become clusterfucks in Kingmaker, especially in late game that above image is not a clusterfuck, not even close.

Also most clusterfucks can be solved by turning off all the extra shit that shows up over everyone's heads.
 
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Safav Hamon

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My experience with Kingmaker (chapter 5) is that literally every single encounter devolves into a mess of colors after a few seconds. There are also way more trash mobs than Pillars 1, which I didn't think was possible.

maxresdefault.jpg


369EBFE7126168C2044395F5B7FE5EFA2EB2B299


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Seriously, this is the most incomprehensible combat I've ever experienced. Far worse than Baldurs Gate was.
 
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Sharpedge

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My experience with Kingmaker (chapter 5) is that literally every single encounter devolves into a mess of colors after a few seconds. There are also way more trash mobs than Pillars 1, which I didn't think was possible.
Pillars of Eternity is only trash mobs, even the boss encounters can be classed as them since its simply a case of applying the same formulaic solution for every single fight. There is nothing difficult or innovative about them, its just a case of using the same solution everywhere, regardless of whatever abilities the boss may have. The thing is, the combat system is not necessarily bad, it just feels like the fights within the game are lacking something to actually make you need to think. This is similar to how mage fights in Pathfinder are a let down, but Pillars manages to pull off the let down on a game wide scale.
 
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Safav Hamon

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Both Pillars 1 and Kingmaker consist mostly of trash mobs, but Kingmaker being twice as long has twice as many of them.

Obsidian has constantly evolved the series encounter design since The White March, and the last two Deadfire expansions have more interesting fights than both games combined.
 
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Sharpedge

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Both Pillars 1 and Kingmaker consist mostly of trash mobs, but Kingmaker being nearly twice as long has twice as many of them.

The encounter design in The Whitch March, Deadfire, Seeker Slayer Survivor, and Forgotten Sanctum crushes the shit out of both games.
You mean those encounters in deadfire where I would take tea breaks while the npcs were having their turns because it took forever and nothing interesting or relevant happened?
 

Sharpedge

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You say that, but Deadfire's AI moves a lot faster than DOS and XCOM.
You're right, but at least those games respect your time and combat is over within a reasonable amount of time, the damage:hp ratio of the deadfire megabosses puts them solidly in the sponge category. If a game wants to make boss fights go on for half an hour plus, the boss better have interesting mechanics that change as the fight goes on. Multiple phases, changing tactics, the works. After the first 2 rounds of combat with the deadfire bosses you have seen pretty much all of the mechanics, with maybe the exception of Hauami o Whe, where after you kill the first ooze you realize that it is all just a horrible joke being played on you.
 
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Safav Hamon

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Sharpedge said:
If a game wants to make boss fights go on for half an hour plus, the boss better have interesting mechanics that change as the fight goes on. Multiple phases, changing tactics, the works.

For the record, every boss does have unique mechanics and/or special phases. To name a few...

- Beleranga permanently debuffs everytime you kill one of her spider minions
- Neriscrylas 1 will cast stacking Llengraths Safeguard at around 50% health
- There are several heroes you can recruit to help you during the Neriscrylas 2 fight
- Sigilmaster Auranic uses obelisks for her spells, which become vunerable after being used. Destroying an obelisk makes her permanently lose that spell.
- Hauani O Whe will split himself into two enemies, and will merge back when one gets 50% health
- Dorudagan self heals with his own delayed fireball attacks
- The Guardian of Ukaizo will summon Engwithan Titans at several stages of the fight
- There are destructible shields during the Scyorielphas fight that will protect you from her attacks.
- There are two detructable burrows during the Giant Cave Grub fight that spawn infinite reinforcements
- Concelhaut has a reflection spell during the first 30 seconds of the fight, and is blocked by two death sigils
- The Tyrant of Decay uses obelisks to change his elemental attacks. He becomes invulnerable for 30 seconds every time he uses one
- The Oracle of Wael has destructible machines that heal her during the fight.

Which boss fights in Pathfinder: Kingmaker have similar unique mechanics?
 
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Sharpedge

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Sharpedge said:
If a game wants to make boss fights go on for half an hour plus, the boss better have interesting mechanics that change as the fight goes on. Multiple phases, changing tactics, the works.

For the record, every boss does have unique mechanics and/or special phases. To name a few...

- Beleranga permanently debuffs everytime you kill one of her spider minions
- Neriscrylas 1 will cast stacking Llengraths Safeguard at around 50% health
- There are several heroes you can recruit to help you during the Neriscrylas 2 fight
- Sigilmaster Auranic uses obelisks for her spells, which become vunerable after being used. Destroying an obelisk makes her permanently lose that spell.
- Hauani O Whe will split himself into two enemies, and will merge back when one gets 50% health
- Dorudagan self heals with his own delayed fireball attacks
- The Guardian of Ukaizo will summon Engwithan Titans at several stages of the fight
- There are destructible shields during the Scyorielphas fight that will protect you from her attacks.
- There are two detructable burrows during the Giant Cave Grub fight that spawn infinite reinforcements
- Concelhaut has a reflection spell during the first 30 seconds of the fight, and is blocked by two death sigils
- The Tyrant of Decay uses obelisks to change his elemental attacks. He becomes invulnerable for 30 seconds every time he uses one
- The Oracle of Wael has destructible machines that heal her during the fight.

Which boss fights in Pathfinder: Kingmaker have similar unique mechanics?
Out of everything you listed, the only thing that actually matters is the infuriating ooze splitting mechanic, the rest of it is summarily dealt with by the application of self buffs (which occurs on the first round of combat). Infinite adds that spawn -> get ignored until the boss is dead, the trash in pillars matters so little you can completely ignore its existence, except for the boss trash, which also does very little but just takes 50 turns to die. And if you are trying to call something like, "boss casts a spell which only functions when it is on low hp when it is on low hp" a unique mechanic, that really is a stretch. It is more a case of it happens to have that specific spell in its spell book and that is the only point at which the spell does something.

Also, did you really try to justify those obnoxiously long fights with single mechanics? I think you missed the plural in the, "lots of mechanics" bit of it. Sure, Pathfinder doesn't do much better, but the fights don't take forever either. The one fight that does take a while is the Lantern King and it has multiple phases with different mechanics in each phase, which is what the fights in Pillars should have done.
 
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fantadomat

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If a game wants to make boss fights go on for half an hour plus, the boss better have interesting mechanics that change as the fight goes on.
Drakensang :obviously::obviously::obviously:

No game have given the satisfaction after beating a boss as much as Drakensang! I still remember the feeling of cold sweaty balls for 30 minutes fight,only to get crush as the boss enters his next phase. Also that no seal fight in river of time :argh:.
 
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Safav Hamon

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Also, did you really try to justify those obnoxiously long fights with single mechanics?

I don't consider 15 minutes obnoxious, which is the longest it has ever taken me to defeat a boss (Beleranga). There are solo players beating them in that much time on youtube.
 
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Sharpedge

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Also, did you really try to justify those obnoxiously long fights with single mechanics?

I don't consider 15 minutes obnoxious, which is the longest it has ever taken me to defeat a boss (Beleranga). There are solo players beating them in under 20 minutes in RTwP.
Soloing them in RTwP is a lot less time consuming, sure. I have done both, but are you really trying to defend the fights by saying, "they don't take so long if you play in the game mode that I Safav Hamon think is bad?" I soloed the game 4 times. Once on release, once when they added the beast of winter, once when they added seeker, slayer, destroyer and now with the forgotten sanctum. The 4th time, was in turn based and technically I didn't finish every fight since I hated Hauami o Whe in RTwP and there is no way I am subjecting myself to that tedium in turn based. I can do it, but I am not doing it again when I hated that fight the first time. RTwP does a lot to hide the flaws of those fights sure, but if you didn't notice in RTwP that there isn't much happening in those fights then try soloing it in turn based. The repetitiveness very quickly sets in.
 
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Safav Hamon

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Solo any game that's designed for parties and it's going to be tedious.

The megabosses aren't exactly easy either. Sure with enough knowledge of exploits you can solo them, but the vast majority of players will struggle with even a full party.
 
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Safav Hamon

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Anyways, this thread has been derailed. Let's get back on the topic of RTwP being an incomprehensible mess...

Swamp_Witch_Hut_Wisp_Bolt.jpg
 

Shadenuat

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Anyways, this thread has been derailed. Let's get back on the topic of RTwP being an incomprehensible mess...
maxresdefault.jpg


now I wish we could find the correct dialogue node which makes Safav kill himself and end this loop.



also it is so nice to see screenshots with nearly infinite summons by enemies and party as well as spells - something you simply are forbidden to do in Sawyer's masterpiece.
 

Sharpedge

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Solo any game that's designed for parties and it's going to be tedious.

The megabosses aren't exactly easy either. Sure with enough knowledge of exploits you can solo them, but the vast majority of players will struggle with even a full party.
Except most of the time it isn't. BG 1 and 2 are not tedious to solo, it is in fact a pleasure to do so. Kingmaker is also not tedious to solo. I could name a few others but that is besides the point. As far as the megabosses not being easy, from my perspective I disagree.

Now, as for this...
Anyways, this thread has been derailed. Let's get back on the topic of RTwP being an incomprehensible mess...

Swamp_Witch_Hut_Wisp_Bolt.jpg
And this:
Darth Roxor

You can play Deadfire in turn based, whereas Kingmaker only has clusterfuck as an option.
Allow me to quote this:
Also, did you really try to justify those obnoxiously long fights with single mechanics?

I don't consider 15 minutes obnoxious, which is the longest it has ever taken me to defeat a boss (Beleranga). There are solo players beating them in under 20 minutes in RTwP.

Are you trying to say here that when playing PoE 2 you have to choose between either having a clusterfuck of a screen in RTwP or having tedious fights that take forever? It doesn't seem like much of a choice.
 

Shadenuat

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Are you trying to say here that when playing PoE 2 you have to choose between either having a clusterfuck of a screen in RTwP or having tedious fights that take forever?
Yes.

To be honest, the PoE RTwP is both clusterfuck and tedious at the same time though.
 
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Safav Hamon

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That tag should be applied to everyone that defended this shit as being good combat.

ac2abcbb1783eed57ddcf92e83a1b77b0e42ae11.jpeg


Are you trying to say here that when playing PoE 2 you have to choose between either having a clusterfuck of a screen in RTwP or having tedious fights that take forever?

No, because the game's not tedious if you play it with a full party like intended.

Megabosses are supposed to be the toughest challenges in the series. It's not a big deal that the 0.2% of players that solo can't beat them in ten minutes.
 
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Safav Hamon

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I see that tag is correctly applied to you then, since you told me that I should be playing PoE 2 on it to make the game less tedious.

Can we get an intellectual dishonesty tag?

RTwP is shit. End of Story. Good day.

5c33d4c05507f_PEua6Kw.jpg
 
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