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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

millenialboomer

millenialboomer

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Oct 29, 2020
Messages
11
InD_ImaginE said:
You can ham it in I think. While it doesn't have strategic layer, in the 2nd book of the AP you did save a fortress of Ranger or something. Can easily spin it in to include strategic layer there, controlling the Ranger vs the giants army.

Honestly I'd prefer they combine Raise and Return of the Runelords somehow into 1 epic game if they are going to do RUnelords at all.
Click to expand...

In regarding the strategic layer, the ogres before the giants would add a great "tutorial" strategic layer. You're spot on about the giants being perfect fodder for strategic layer; in fact, that's how I ran it using ultimate campaign modified for P2.

Regarding the combination of the two aps though... I don't know. It's a good idea, but I feel like it would be a bummer for people to miss out on a lot of the good stuff from the related APs. Combining Rise of the Runelords with Return of the Runelords isn't ideal because the latter's enjoyment is directly predicated on how much you know about what happened in Curse of the Crimson Throne. You'd have to also include Shattered Star for sure I think. Plus, the power levels at the end of any of those adventure paths are pretty titanic. Your power levels at the end of Rise would trivialize a lot Return I think at a minimum and if you didn't bequeath those power levels, the encounters wouldn't make sense (I fought a
what essentially amounts to a demigod of magic
but now some city guard are a threat? what?) Maybe... oh! Maybe you could introduce a sort of quasi generational mechanic?
If I recall correctly, the final encounter at the end of Rise doesn't exactly guarantee your survival anyway, so you could factor that into it.

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion based on the reactions I saw earlier in the thread and the love for Pathfinder1, but I honestly hope the next game is using the Pathfinder 2 ruleset. The increase in complexity to combat and deadliness of any given encounter would do a lot to ensuring there were less uninteresting trash fights. Even in the Alpha for WoTR, there are a lot of annoying encounters that don't mean anything and aren't fun spaced in between the interesting ones. They feel like chores; I think even the Real Time with Pause players can agree with me based on my experience with RTwP in WoTR. Pathfinder 2, by its very nature, might help with this.
 
~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T

~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T

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Serpent in the Staglands Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
millenialboomer said:
In regarding the strategic layer, the ogres before the giants would add a great "tutorial" strategic layer. You're spot on about the giants being perfect fodder for strategic layer; in fact, that's how I ran it using ultimate campaign modified for P2.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that, while chapters 3 and 4 (ogres and giants) works pretty well for a strategic layer, after Mokmurian is defeated at the end of chapter 4 there's no longer really an immediate threat anywhere, whether in Sandpoint, Magnimar, or Fort Rannick. Karzoug's impending awakening is a threat that can only be dealt with by actually going to Xin Shalast - chapter 5 is about acquiring equipment to deal with him and chapter 6 is going to defeat him. There aren't any armies left to fight once the giant army breaks up, so what are you going to use your Ranger army for at this point? It would seem kinda weird to just have the strategic layer for a third of the game in the middle.

Of course, Owlcat has made their own changes in their adaptations of the APs to make them work better for the games, so maybe they can adapt it to work. They'll need to make changes either way just to have an evil PC make sense. I'm just a little skeptical they would want to make a fairly drastic change to the plot of probably the most celebrated AP to make the strategic layer work.

Regarding the combination of the two aps though... I don't know. It's a good idea, but I feel like it would be a bummer for people to miss out on a lot of the good stuff from the related APs. Combining Rise of the Runelords with Return of the Runelords isn't ideal because the latter's enjoyment is directly predicated on how much you know about what happened in Curse of the Crimson Throne. You'd have to also include Shattered Star for sure I think. Plus, the power levels at the end of any of those adventure paths are pretty titanic. Your power levels at the end of Rise would trivialize a lot Return I think at a minimum and if you didn't bequeath those power levels, the encounters wouldn't make sense (I fought a
what essentially amounts to a demigod of magic
but now some city guard are a threat? what?) Maybe... oh! Maybe you could introduce a sort of quasi generational mechanic?
If I recall correctly, the final encounter at the end of Rise doesn't exactly guarantee your survival anyway, so you could factor that into it.
Click to expand...

Agreed with most of this, a generational mechanic sounds kinda cool, but overall I'm not sure combining APs will work out very well.
 
millenialboomer

millenialboomer

Literate
Joined
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Messages
11
~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T said:
I think the problem is that, while chapters 3 and 4 (ogres and giants) works pretty well for a strategic layer, after Mokmurian is defeated at the end of chapter 4 there's no longer really an immediate threat anywhere, whether in Sandpoint, Magnimar, or Fort Rannick. Karzoug's impending awakening is a threat that can only be dealt with by actually going to Xin Shalast - chapter 5 is about acquiring equipment to deal with him and chapter 6 is going to defeat him. There aren't any armies left to fight once the giant army breaks up, so what are you going to use your Ranger army for at this point? It would seem kinda weird to just have the strategic layer for a third of the game in the middle.

Of course, Owlcat has made their own changes in their adaptations of the APs to make them work better for the games, so maybe they can adapt it to work. They'll need to make changes either way just to have an evil PC make sense. I'm just a little skeptical they would want to make a fairly drastic change to the plot of probably the most celebrated AP to make the strategic layer work.
Click to expand...
That's a good point. Once you add the mechanic, typically people want more of it and to ramp it out, not for that part of the game to be "cleared." I suppose you could do something about
the current-era denizens of Xin Shalast who started worshipping Karzoug and make them into a threat? But honestly, the Giants are the bigger deal, thematic-wise.[/quote]
 
Desiderius

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Wrath isn’t like that at all. Up the difficulty if it’s boring. They haven’t even put in advanced mob abilities yet.
 

CaesarCzech

Scholar
Joined
Aug 24, 2018
Messages
445
As for games the IRA simulator that was the city Adventure path not the The Thieves one but the Cheliax resistance could be decent just downsize strategic layer. The pirate Adventure path would be decent if Obsiditards didnt decide to do it first.
 
Ghulgothas

Ghulgothas

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So Below
Morii said:
Lawntoilet said:
For anyone who was asking about Mythic Path alignments, here's what's what for the ones that are in the Alpha:
https://imgur.com/a/FTuqoyS
Click to expand...
This really doesn't make sense to me
Angel is CG? then why demons isn't CE? Lich is natural? I thought necromancy was evil in pathfinder?
Click to expand...
That's because with how this game is being designed, it won't be completable without ultimately committing to a Mythic path. With what we know of the requirements and potential for failure and lockout in the other paths, they're likely making Angel and Demon the contingency Mythics for good and evil respectively.
 
The Jester

The Jester

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Mister Familiar said:
Morii said:
Lawntoilet said:
For anyone who was asking about Mythic Path alignments, here's what's what for the ones that are in the Alpha:
https://imgur.com/a/FTuqoyS
Click to expand...
This really doesn't make sense to me
Angel is CG? then why demons isn't CE? Lich is natural? I thought necromancy was evil in pathfinder?
Click to expand...
That's because with how this game is being designed, it won't be completable without ultimately committing to a Mythic path. With what we know of the requirements and potential for failure and lockout in the other paths, they're likely making Angel and Demon the contingency Mythics for good and evil respectively.
Click to expand...
But Demon isn't even Evil its just Chaotic.
 
Cleric of Asmodeus

Cleric of Asmodeus

Learned
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387
The green check mark is just in the middle of each list, it’s not indicating the primary or default alignment or something t
 
Shinros

Shinros

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Messages
172
It's gameplay mechanics. At a certain point you have to pick a path. Angel and demon are the default routes. Good and evil.
 
Shinros

Shinros

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Lacrymas said:
Isn't Mortal Legend the contingency path?
Click to expand...

No, at a certain point in Alpha you have to pick a path. Angel and Demon are the contingency, Legend is a whole (boring) late game path in itself going by what I have seen from leaks.
 
Desiderius

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Something on our boy Regill:

upload_2020-11-3_8-27-2.png


An entire companion written (extraordinarily well) for the Codex.
 
Delterius

Delterius

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Entre a serra e o mar.
Morii said:
Lawntoilet said:
For anyone who was asking about Mythic Path alignments, here's what's what for the ones that are in the Alpha:
https://imgur.com/a/FTuqoyS
Click to expand...
This really doesn't make sense to me
Angel is CG? then why demons isn't CE? Lich is natural? I thought necromancy was evil in pathfinder?
Click to expand...
the alignments are open ended just as with clerics, who can be one step away from the alignment of their deity
 
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