Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

I agreed that the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough and gave an example of weapon specialization in the level up screen.

Whether or not a tree is feasible, it would at least make sense to give good descriptions of weapon types, like if a Falcata is a one-handed sword or a two-handed polearm.

Well, then my point of contention is mostly a place where you want the game to feed you this information. The level up screen is already overloaded, very dynamic and crucially important to character progress. There is a lot of code behind it, and it should be very robust and reliable to allow crazy combinations someone might come up with while making character progression bug free.

What you want is static information that can be put into much lower priority environment and still be in-game - like in-game Encyclopedia. Yes, this will force you to cancel level up and look for the documentation. Yes, opening a third-party site might be even more convenient in this case. But unless they completely redesign the level-up process I do not want them to spend resources and risk character breaking bugs just for people who cannot write down basic weapon features on a piece of paper. Or to plan the character progression for a couple of levels.

Yeah I don't think you understand what I am saying, or you are being intentionally obtuse. There is already a tooltip when you hover over the weapons. Why would that tooltip tell you that the Sword Saint gets to pick a Weapon Specialization, rather than saying: "Falcata - a small curved blade 1d6"?

Right now the tooltip tells you information that you already have because the game tells you what a Sword Saint is on the class selection guide. What you are suggesting is akin to suggesting that they not tell you what the attributes of a class are because that can be in an encyclopedia.

Should they remove class descriptions and race descriptions so that the level up screen is more "robust"?

What you are suggesting is pretty retarded.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Well, if you want to continue this discussion post a screenshot where you want your tooltip to appear. Or consider me obtuse - I'm OK with that.

 

[NJClaw]

I agreed that the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough and gave an example of weapon specialization in the level up screen.

Whether or not a tree is feasible, it would at least make sense to give good descriptions of weapon types, like if a Falcata is a one-handed sword or a two-handed polearm.

Well, then my point of contention is mostly a place where you want the game to feed you this information. The level up screen is already overloaded, very dynamic and crucially important to character progress. There is a lot of code behind it, and it should be very robust and reliable to allow crazy combinations someone might come up with while making character progression bug free.

What you want is static information that can be put into much lower priority environment and still be in-game - like in-game Encyclopedia. Yes, this will force you to cancel level up and look for the documentation. Yes, opening a third-party site might be even more convenient in this case. But unless they completely redesign the level-up process I do not want them to spend resources and risk character breaking bugs just for people who cannot write down basic weapon features on a piece of paper. Or to plan the character progression for a couple of levels.

Yeah I don't think you understand what I am saying, or you are being intentionally obtuse. There is already a tooltip when you hover over the weapons. Why would that tooltip tell you that the Sword Saint gets to pick a Weapon Specialization, rather than saying: "Falcata - a small curved blade 1d6"?

Right now the tooltip tells you information that you already have because the game tells you what a Sword Saint is on the class selection guide. What you are suggesting is akin to suggesting that they not tell you what the attributes of a class are because that can be in an encyclopedia.

Should they remove class descriptions and race descriptions so that the level up screen is more "robust"?

What you are suggesting is pretty retarded.

They shouldn't even tell you which classes and races you can pick. Just a blank text field where you have to manually enter a valid race-class combination.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The breadth of the Pathfinder system being difficult to penetrate is a valid criticism. To trip you need the Trip feat, which requires Combat Expertise, which requires an INT of at least 13. A player will never even see the Combat Expertise feat if they have 12 Int, and would go the whole game never knowing why the game won't let their fighter trip someone. A tree would assuage this problem. The reality is that in Pathfinder, you have to stumble upon something and work your way backward, or consume the whole ruleset up front. Neither is a good idea.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Seems another one has never pressed "Show unavailable" button. OK.

This is the first stage of the redditation of the Codex.

 

[Delterius]

le talent tree meme hehe xD

edit: thanks for the gold kind stranger

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Well, if you want to continue this discussion post a screenshot where you want your tooltip to appear. Or consider me obtuse - I'm OK with that.

OK here we go.

When you select Tiefling as your race, in the character creation screen it asks you to choose a heritage. Here, it shows you the specific attributes of each heritage:

Spoiler

And here is what it says when you are selecting a weapon specialization:

Spoiler

It seems like they simply forgot to add the weapon details. Not sure how that's "wanting the game to spoon-feed" me.

EDIT: On reflection, I believe this happens for all sub-feats. Again, I think that it was an oversight. Something I hope they fix for WOTR.

 

[LannTheStupid]

No, they did not forget it. They did not want to add more stuff to already cramped place.

They also should not add descriptions of all schools of magic for spell focus, of spells for spell specialization, and of possible feats acquired through "bard tricks" (or whatever) and through Kineticist's elements.

Having said that I am grateful that you took your time to illustrate your ideas. I do not agree with you, but it made a good discussion.

 

[Lawntoilet]

No, they did not forget it. They did not want to add more stuff to already cramped place.

They also should not add descriptions of all schools of magic for spell focus, of spells for spell specialization, and of possible feats acquired through "bard tricks" (or whatever) and through Kineticist's elements.

Having said that I am grateful that you took your time to illustrate your ideas. I do not agree with you, but it made a good discussion.

If they replaced the (redundant) "Sword Saint can pick one weapon" blurb with the weapon description it wouldn't take up any extra space at all.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

No, they did not forget it. They did not want to add more stuff to already cramped place.

They also should not add descriptions of all schools of magic for spell focus, of spells for spell specialization, and of possible feats acquired through "bard tricks" (or whatever) and through Kineticist's elements.

Having said that I am grateful that you took your time to illustrate your ideas. I do not agree with you, but it made a good discussion.

If they replaced the (redundant) "Sword Saint can pick one weapon" blurb with the weapon description it wouldn't take up any extra space at all.

Exactly. I’m not sure what’s the big deal here.

 

[Sweeper]

Name one fucking CRPG that didn't handle weapon focus/specialization like this.
If you mind it so much just read a fucking weapons list and shut the fuck up about it.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Name one fucking CRPG that didn't handle weapon focus/specialization like this.
If you mind it so much just read a fucking weapons list and shut the fuck up about it.

Not sure who that's directed at.

 

[Cryomancer]

"shadow demon"

There is a plane of shadows on pathfinder?

Edit : yes https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Gamemastering/environment/the-planes/#TOC-Shadow-Plane1

But a shadow demon is a demon from the abyss or shadowfell?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Name one fucking CRPG that didn't handle weapon focus/specialization like this.
If you mind it so much just read a fucking weapons list and shut the fuck up about it.

Not sure who that's directed at.

At casuals, indiscriminately.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Name one fucking CRPG that didn't handle weapon focus/specialization like this.
If you mind it so much just read a fucking weapons list and shut the fuck up about it.

Not sure who that's directed at.

At casuals, indiscriminately.

Where I'm lost is the "name on CRPG that didn't handle weapon focus like this"

Does he mean, without any information on the kind of weapon it is? Because I can name several. But I'm not sure he's referring to me.

 

[Sweeper]

Not sure who that's directed at.

I agreed that the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough and gave an example of weapon specialization in the level up screen.

Whether or not a tree is feasible, it would at least make sense to give good descriptions of weapon types, like if a Falcata is a one-handed sword or a two-handed polearm.

Does he mean, without any information on the kind of weapon it is?

Oleg's got a shit ton of basic weapons for sale, and you could always hold out from taking a weapon focus feat, by the end of chapter 1 you'd have seen the wast majority, if not all weapon types.

It's largely a non-issue.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Not sure who that's directed at.

I agreed that the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough and gave an example of weapon specialization in the level up screen.

Whether or not a tree is feasible, it would at least make sense to give good descriptions of weapon types, like if a Falcata is a one-handed sword or a two-handed polearm.

Haha ok.

CRPGs that do not give you a huge list of weapons in the character level up without any description:

• Fallout 1
• Fallout 2
• Baldur’s Gate 1
• Baldur’s Gate 2
• Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2
• Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2
• Dungeon Rats/AoD
• Wasteland 2

And many more. All of the above games allow you to specialize in weapon or weapon groups.


Also PFKM does not give you descriptions of spell schools in the level up screen, again this is not found in Baldur’s Gate, Pillars of Eternity, Neverwinter Nights, etc because all of these games give you a good description of their spell schools in the level up screen.

EDIT: OK I might be wrong, both Neverwinter Nights games do not tell you anything about the weapons when you are picking the weapon specialization feats. I am likely just proving my cultural bias here, because I recognize most, if not all, the weapons on the list in both NWN games, but there are many I do not recognize on PFKM's.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Not sure who that's directed at.

I agreed that the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough and gave an example of weapon specialization in the level up screen.

Whether or not a tree is feasible, it would at least make sense to give good descriptions of weapon types, like if a Falcata is a one-handed sword or a two-handed polearm.

Does he mean, without any information on the kind of weapon it is?

Oleg's got a shit ton of basic weapons for sale, and you could always hold out from taking a weapon focus feat, by the end of chapter 1 you'd have seen the wast majority, if not all weapon types.

It's largely a non-issue.

You can’t skip picking a Chosen Weapon for your sword saint level 1, so yeah this whole “just wait to specialize” suggestion is dumb

 

[Sweeper]

Do they also give you the stats of every unique weapon and/or weapon type? Cause dude, you could be specing into an objectively inferior weapon group.
Oleg sells 50+ masterwork weapons, before the end of chapter 1.
You've got a shitton of stuff to criticize Kingmaker for, but this is a very, very minor thing.

You can’t skip picking a Chosen Weapon for your sword saint level 1, so yeah this whole “just wait to specialize” suggestion is dumb

So? Look up a list.
Fuck.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Do they also give you the stats of every unique weapon and/or weapon type? Cause dude, you could be specing into an objectively inferior weapon group.
Oleg sells 50+ masterwork weapons, before the end of chapter 1.
You've got a shitton of stuff to criticize Kingmaker for, but this is a very, very minor thing.

I may be wrong, as I was about the NWN games, as I edited my post above, but you are right. This is not one of my biggest beefs or anything, just a minor annoyance.

 

[Sweeper]

This is not one of my biggest beefs or anything, just a minor annoyance.

Kingmaker is fucking filled with them, and I actually love it more because of it.
I just imagine the screeching of the filtered Larianfag and I smile.

 

[The Jester]

"shadow demon"

There is a plane of shadows on pathfinder?

Edit : yes https://www.d20pfsrd.com/Gamemastering/environment/the-planes/#TOC-Shadow-Plane1

But a shadow demon is a demon from the abyss or shadowfell?

Unlike many demons, shadow demons are incorporeal. When a particularly envious and evil mortal soul is pulled into the Abyss, it is transformed, split apart, and combined with other souls until what emerges is little more than jealous malevolence without the impediment of a physical body.

 

[mediocrepoet]

In an era where games don't come with printed manuals and often not even pdf manuals, suggesting a tool tip for a better user experience is somehow heresy rather than an objective improvement... Interesting.

I suppose the most inclined game is one where there are no tool tips, just unexplained icons and you're expected to trial and error through it, eh?

 

[Cryomancer]

Nobody is asking with invasive popups "hey, you found a swarm of insects. Try torches, bombs and AOE spells", but honestly, I an playing Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager and have to read the manual to remember what a spell can do is annoying... Have more information about weapons is not bad.

Hell, one thing which I love on pathfinder is the combat log which shows exactly why i lost or won a encounter. On P&P you have that type of information, why with the CRPG adaptation should be different?

 

[Lacrymas]

In-game documentation of the rules is always a good thing. Did anyone criticise KotC for having all that information readily available? If so, that's dumb.