Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[InD_ImaginE]

I find it ridiculous that they can't make a character builder or at least feats tree.

One of the biggest challenges in making a decent build is the lack of information unless you are familiar with the PnP system (oh to make a trip build I have to have at least 13 INT for this feats which is the prerequisite of taking the Trip feat, for example).

And their solution is... letting player copy build on Steam? Like people literally already do that through forums and such.

 

[fantadomat]

I find it ridiculous that they can't make a character builder or at least feats tree.

One of the biggest challenges in making a decent build is the lack of information unless you are familiar with the PnP system (oh to make a trip build I have to have at least 13 INT for this feats which is the prerequisite of taking the Trip feat, for example).

And their solution is... letting player copy build on Steam? Like people literally already do that through forums and such.

Ahhh you are complaining because you have to use your brain for a few minutes lol. Skill threes are retarded,the feats are fine,just read the description and you know what is doing .

 

[santino27]

I haven't played the alpha in a while, and that only briefly, but they could at least indicate on a given feat what other feats it serves as a pre-req for. Agreed that I spent a lot of time on Pathfinder rules sites for Kingmaker to figure some of that shit out, when the info really should be in-game.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I find it ridiculous that they can't make a character builder or at least feats tree.

One of the biggest challenges in making a decent build is the lack of information unless you are familiar with the PnP system (oh to make a trip build I have to have at least 13 INT for this feats which is the prerequisite of taking the Trip feat, for example).

And their solution is... letting player copy build on Steam? Like people literally already do that through forums and such.

Ahhh you are complaining because you have to use your brain for a few minutes lol. Skill threes are retarded,the feats are fine,just read the description and you know what is doing .

No, the problem is you don't know what you don't know, especially if you are not familiar with the PnP system.

To make a build I have to go to wiki to know what feats are available in the game because unless I already have the prerequisite, the feats don't even appear when you level up which means you don't even know what you are missing to begin with.

This information should be easily accessible in the game instead of requiring players to be familiar with PnP or have to look for information on 3rd party website. The easiest to make this visible is visualization through feats tree.

As of I am now I would have no issue building character becausee WoR has the same system and probably feats like PfK, but for new players these information are crucial to enjoying the game.

 

[fantadomat]

I find it ridiculous that they can't make a character builder or at least feats tree.

One of the biggest challenges in making a decent build is the lack of information unless you are familiar with the PnP system (oh to make a trip build I have to have at least 13 INT for this feats which is the prerequisite of taking the Trip feat, for example).

And their solution is... letting player copy build on Steam? Like people literally already do that through forums and such.

Ahhh you are complaining because you have to use your brain for a few minutes lol. Skill threes are retarded,the feats are fine,just read the description and you know what is doing .

No, the problem is you don't know what you don't know, especially if you are not familiar with the PnP system.

To make a build I have to go to wiki to know what feats are available in the game because unless I already have the prerequisite, the feats don't even appear when you level up which means you don't even know what you are missing to begin with.

This information should be easily accessible in the game instead of requiring players to be familiar with PnP or have to look for information on 3rd party website. The easiest to make this visible is visualization through feats tree.

As of I am now I would have no issue building character becausee WoR has the same system and probably feats like PfK, but for new players these information are crucial to enjoying the game.

LoL just check it out mate,don't be a popamolist decliner. It is not something hard to do. No need to dumbdown the game over you being a bit lazy.

 

[Delterius]

Documentation in game is dumbing down says edgyposterkid at forum for autists. More news at eleven.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

I find it ridiculous that they can't make a character builder or at least feats tree.

One of the biggest challenges in making a decent build is the lack of information unless you are familiar with the PnP system (oh to make a trip build I have to have at least 13 INT for this feats which is the prerequisite of taking the Trip feat, for example).

And their solution is... letting player copy build on Steam? Like people literally already do that through forums and such.

Ahhh you are complaining because you have to use your brain for a few minutes lol. Skill threes are retarded,the feats are fine,just read the description and you know what is doing .

No, the problem is you don't know what you don't know, especially if you are not familiar with the PnP system.

To make a build I have to go to wiki to know what feats are available in the game because unless I already have the prerequisite, the feats don't even appear when you level up which means you don't even know what you are missing to begin with.

This information should be easily accessible in the game instead of requiring players to be familiar with PnP or have to look for information on 3rd party website. The easiest to make this visible is visualization through feats tree.

As of I am now I would have no issue building character becausee WoR has the same system and probably feats like PfK, but for new players these information are crucial to enjoying the game.

LoL just check it out mate,don't be a popamolist decliner. It is not something hard to do. No need to dumbdown the game over you being a bit lazy.

Clarity of information and making them available in-game is not "popamole decliner" you edgy shitlord. It is a QoL feature so players will not be wasting their time. But sure, feel free to feel highty mighty because you like to waste your time just because it would look hardcore

 

[fantadomat]

I find it ridiculous that they can't make a character builder or at least feats tree.

One of the biggest challenges in making a decent build is the lack of information unless you are familiar with the PnP system (oh to make a trip build I have to have at least 13 INT for this feats which is the prerequisite of taking the Trip feat, for example).

And their solution is... letting player copy build on Steam? Like people literally already do that through forums and such.

Ahhh you are complaining because you have to use your brain for a few minutes lol. Skill threes are retarded,the feats are fine,just read the description and you know what is doing .

No, the problem is you don't know what you don't know, especially if you are not familiar with the PnP system.

To make a build I have to go to wiki to know what feats are available in the game because unless I already have the prerequisite, the feats don't even appear when you level up which means you don't even know what you are missing to begin with.

This information should be easily accessible in the game instead of requiring players to be familiar with PnP or have to look for information on 3rd party website. The easiest to make this visible is visualization through feats tree.

As of I am now I would have no issue building character becausee WoR has the same system and probably feats like PfK, but for new players these information are crucial to enjoying the game.

LoL just check it out mate,don't be a popamolist decliner. It is not something hard to do. No need to dumbdown the game over you being a bit lazy.

Clarity of information and making them available in-game is not "popamole decliner" you edgy shitlord. It is a QoL feature so players will not be wasting their time. But sure, feel free to feel highty mighty because you like to waste your time just because it would look hardcore

Sure more info is fine,wanting skill threes and shit is not.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Feat tree is literally just visualization of information that you can get from tables. It is easier to the eye, it allows users to get the same information quicker without having to check the table one by one.

Users will still end up with the same conclusion with less time spent.

It's not that they are changing the pathfinder system, they will still use the very same system they are using now. They are just giving the information in a clear and concise way.

But I guess for edgy shitlord that would "make the game too easy" or whatever.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

Feat tree is literally just visualization of information that you can get from tables. It is easier to the eye, it allows users to get the same information quicker without having to check the table one by one.

Users will still end up with the same conclusion with less time spent.

It's not that they are changing the pathfinder system, they will still use the very same system they are using now. They are just giving the information in a clear and concise way.

But I guess for edgy shitlord that would "make the game too easy" or whatever.

Additionally I found that Kingmaker’s tool tips were lacking in general. I am not a weapons enthusiast, so it would be nice if they could give a description of Bardiche or Falchion or any of those (ok I know Falchion, but there are some weapons that I have no idea what they are) with typical hit dice and type, ie is it two-handed, is it small or large, that kind of stuff.

 

[Silly Germans]

A feat tree would be great, especially for those class specific feat lists. A option to allocate skill points automatically to a scheme that you can set once would also be great. Having to distribute them with every level up took quite some time, especially when you were trying to test builds. Let me set that once and then carry it to the next level with the option to adjust it. A char builder tool would be a good addition no matter what. All they have to do is to take a look at that NWN2 website where you could try out builds.

 

[LannTheStupid]

To make a build I have to go to wiki to know what feats are available in the game because unless I already have the prerequisite, the feats don't even appear when you level up which means you don't even know what you are missing to begin with.

How so?

Have you ever tried to press the button "Hide / Show unavailable" at the bottom of the list of feats during any level up?

I understand that it could have been done more obvious, but come on!

it would be nice if they could give a description of Bardiche or Falchion or any of those (ok I know Falchion, but there are some weapons that I have no idea what they are) with typical hit dice and type, ie is it two-handed, is it small or large, that kind of stuff.

Again: of all the requests you've made the only thing lacking on a weapon information card is description and may be Earth (of even Golarion) historical background. All the relevant in-game information is aready there.

Is it a week of reddit user raids on the Codex or what?

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

To make a build I have to go to wiki to know what feats are available in the game because unless I already have the prerequisite, the feats don't even appear when you level up which means you don't even know what you are missing to begin with.

How so?

Have you ever tried to press the button "Hide / Show unavailable" at the bottom of the list of feats during any level up?

I understand that it could have been done more obvious, but come on!

it would be nice if they could give a description of Bardiche or Falchion or any of those (ok I know Falchion, but there are some weapons that I have no idea what they are) with typical hit dice and type, ie is it two-handed, is it small or large, that kind of stuff.

Again: of all the requests you've made the only thing lacking on a weapon information card is description and may be Earth (of even Golarion) historical background. All the relevant in-game information is aready there.

Is it a week of reddit user raids on the Codex or what?

If I’m wrong please tell me, but when you choose Sword Saint (or whatever it’s called in PF) and then you select the weapon you want to specialize in, the tooltip does not tell you anything. You have a huge list of weapons, and if you hover over them with your mouse, it just gives you a description of the feat, not the weapon itself. It would be nice to give a description of the weapon, because I don’t know the difference between a Falcata and a Fauchard off the top of my head.

 

[LannTheStupid]

dacencora When you choose a weapon specialization for your character it is presumed that you know what to choose from. And if you don't then you postpone this decision until you either find something desirable for your melee character or you acquire some meta knowledge.

I see no way and no reason to present a player with all possible weapons on the level up screen. Some weapons are better left as nice surprises, some might not be available in your particular game run, and spoiling you end game items on the starting level-ups is, basically, spoiling a game.

Additionally, you can add character respec on the difficulty options screen and use it if your feats are not what you want.

 

[Delterius]

dacencora When you choose a weapon specialization for your character it is presumed that you know what to choose from.

I don't see why the UI can't show the basic stats for the weapons either. For one, knowing which ones, hell, which types of spears even, have reach would be pretty nice sometimes.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

dacencora When you choose a weapon specialization for your character it is presumed that you know what to choose from. And if you don't then you postpone this decision until you either find something desirable for your melee character or you acquire some meta knowledge.

I see no way and no reason to present a player with all possible weapons on the level up screen. Some weapons are better left as nice surprises, some might not be available in your particular game run, and spoiling you end game items on the starting level-ups is, basically, spoiling a game.

Additionally, you can add character respec on the difficulty options screen and use it if your feats are not what you want.

I think it is not too much to ask that they say something like this:

Falcata
Cost: 18 gp Weight: 4 lbs.
Damage: 1d6 (small), 1d8 (medium) Critical 19-20/x3 Type: slashing
Category: one-handed Proficiency: exotic
Weapon Group: heavy blades

That is from the Pathfinder rulebook. I get what you are saying about "it is presumed that you know what to choose from" but I had never played Pathfinder at all before playing Kingmaker. On the opposite side, you have Baldur's Gate, which similarly brought new players into AD&D, and I think they appropriately gave you enough information. I think that Neverwinter Nights similarly, was properly informative for new 3E players. Pathfinder Kingmaker was not informative enough, in my opinion.

Also this:

I see no way and no reason to present a player with all possible weapons on the level up screen. Some weapons are better left as nice surprises, some might not be available in your particular game run, and spoiling you end game items on the starting level-ups is, basically, spoiling a game.

They are already present at the first level up. You can choose Sword Saint and then choose Falcata. That does not in any way suggest that there are Falcatas present in the game, or even plentiful. So your base assumption is incorrect, because they do make all weapons available, they just don't give you any explanation about them.

 

[mediocrepoet]

When I started PFK, I had to Google PF tabletop wikis for what some of the weapons were/did and similarly with spell levels. The information is already in the game, being able to pop it up for feat and ability selection should be both easy and expected. You shouldn't have to alt tab or pull your phone to figure out basic information because of easily correctable UI flaws.

 

[LannTheStupid]

For one, knowing which ones, hell, which types of spears even, have reach would be pretty nice sometimes.

Well, and then you're getting the Master Fauchard all of a sudden. So your choice is: respec, ignore, choose posptoned weapon spec right now, or use because you've specced properly due to meta knowledge. This is the same choice as on the first level up.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

For one, knowing which ones, hell, which types of spears even, have reach would be pretty nice sometimes.

Well, and then you're getting the Master Fauchard all of a sudden. So your choice is: respec, ignore, choose posptoned weapon spec right now, or use because you've specced properly due to meta knowledge. This is the same choice as on the first level up.

But it shouldn't need meta knowledge for weapon specialization. That's the whole point we are making here. It was a poor UI choice. The information is readily available in any PF rulebook, and all other tabletop-inspired games have been giving descriptions of feats and weapons for decades. It seems odd that you are fighting making the rules more clear to the player.

It doesn't make the game more "hardcore". If you were playing Pathfinder tabletop, if you asked your DM what the attributes of a Falcata were, he would tell you.

 

[mediocrepoet]

For one, knowing which ones, hell, which types of spears even, have reach would be pretty nice sometimes.

Well, and then you're getting the Master Fauchard all of a sudden. So your choice is: respec, ignore, choose posptoned weapon spec right now, or use because you've specced properly due to meta knowledge. This is the same choice as on the first level up.

Knowing what uniques are in the game is a far different thing than knowing what a weapon type does. For example, mixing up fauchard and falcata is possible and easily avoided by having some sort of tool tip showing that one is a pole arm with x, y, z and the other is a sword with x, y, z.

I think you don't even understand the complaint.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I think you don't even understand the complaint.

Highly likely. I'm OK with google, wiki and information gathering in general. I do not want them to spend resources to draw a separate dynamic screen with the feats tree. And if it is not dynamic then it's enough to add such a tree as a set of Encyclopedia pages, which is not different from a google doc and will not help to choose the weapon specialization anyway.

 

[Lilliput McHammersmith]

I think you don't even understand the complaint.

Highly likely. I'm OK with google, wiki and information gathering in general. I do not want them to spend resources to draw a separate dynamic screen with the feats tree. And if it is not dynamic then it's enough to add such a tree as a set of Encyclopedia pages, which is not different from a google doc and will not help to choose the weapon specialization anyway.

Well I think we are actually talking about two different complaints.

Someone said they wanted a Feat tree screen because the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough.

I agreed that the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough and gave an example of weapon specialization in the level up screen.

Whether or not a tree is feasible, it would at least make sense to give good descriptions of weapon types, like if a Falcata is a one-handed sword or a two-handed polearm.

 

[NJClaw]

I think you don't even understand the complaint.

Highly likely. I'm OK with google, wiki and information gathering in general. I do not want them to spend resources to draw a separate dynamic screen with the feats tree. And if it is not dynamic then it's enough to add such a tree as a set of Encyclopedia pages, which is not different from a google doc and will not help to choose the weapon specialization anyway.

Right, they should focus their efforts to implement stuff that actually matters, like gory dismemberment animations for kitsune npcs.

I'm talking about tails chopped off so that you can make a hat out of them. Uhhhhh, yes. After a critical hit you immediately skin them alive to make a beautiful carpet. Ahhhhh, yes.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Right, they should focus their efforts to implement stuff that actually matters, like gory dismemberment animations for kitsune npcs.

I full-heartedly agree that when a Kitsune NPC dismembers someone the animation should be especially gory. And with flowers, too.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I agreed that the in-game descriptions were not descriptive enough and gave an example of weapon specialization in the level up screen.

Whether or not a tree is feasible, it would at least make sense to give good descriptions of weapon types, like if a Falcata is a one-handed sword or a two-handed polearm.

Well, then my point of contention is mostly a place where you want the game to feed you this information. The level up screen is already overloaded, very dynamic and crucially important to character progress. There is a lot of code behind it, and it should be very robust and reliable to allow crazy combinations someone might come up with while making character progression bug free.

What you want is static information that can be put into much lower priority environment and still be in-game - like in-game Encyclopedia. Yes, this will force you to cancel level up and look for the documentation. Yes, opening a third-party site might be even more convenient in this case. But unless they completely redesign the level-up process I do not want them to spend resources and risk character breaking bugs just for people who cannot write down basic weapon features on a piece of paper. Or to plan the character progression for a couple of levels.