Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

Also, I don't want to add fuel to the fire. Some comments from the kickstarter site, confirmed that they were donating one dollar in order to spam about TB.

The Jeycie Team

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't hate JA, but do you really think that D&D out of the box is actually a good tactical wargame in comparison? Good enough to cum in pants cause now you roll your attack dice in tb?

I don't really believe that, or that TB mode makes Pathfinder inherently better.

In comparison to what? JA? I do think D&D has the potential to be a great game, but it requires superb encounter and dungeon design, some class pruning, along with a level cap of 9 or so, and slow leveling.

 

[Shadenuat]

So nothing you will get in PK or this new game

 

[LannTheStupid]

I want to start a campaing about voting for Kitsune race! And for sexy Kitsune kung fu monks!

 

[ga♥]

You would imagine with all the people with no reflexes spamming for turd based the KS would be 10 milions now... oh it barely moved after the announcement, who could have guessed it.

 

[Shadenuat]

Well, time to see if TB people are going to put their money where their mouth is

This is the only good thing which might come out of this I guess. Let's see if the famous 30k unique mod downloads would at least bring into Moscow an extra half a million $.

 

[LannTheStupid]

If any reflexes had ever been required for the RTwP mode I would have been the first to refund Kingmaker.

 

[ArchAngel]

I finished PK + dlc on Unfair with TB mod. I am a know fanboi of Arcanum and also played Deadfire with TB.

Not only is encounter design bad, but action economy is screwed, game becomes too easy + too long, enemy AI is terrible and combat lacks any interesting options to actually validate sequential actions (no counter spelling, no prepared actions, no cover, no elevation, positioning, no anything).

The only thing what TB is good for is to help pnp masters who DMd for 20 years who have problems with landing their fireball in RTwP and so "wizards suck".
Most of tactics involved to win anything was 1 spell to make enemies walk slowly to you and then have all party kill them 1 by 1; or use 1 high initiative caster to win any combat in 1-2 rounds, with all enemies ded/disabled instantly.

It's fun for novelty but if you want actual fun TB game might as well give Vince some cash for his colony shep game.

I think your expectations are just too big. This is a cRPG based on tabletop that does not have hardcore TB combat. There is no reason that devs would make a game that is suddenly this crazy TB game (or even this crazy RTwP game).
The point is to tell a story, roleplay and have combat where you just need to pay attention, not do master chess player calculations in your head. Even in tabletop "genius" tactical play is casting improved invisibility+fly and then bombarding enemies from complete safety.

Go play Long War for Xcom Enemy Within on hardest difficulty ironman if you want a really tough tactical challenge.

 

[King Crispy]

The argument isn't to make Pathfinder turn-based. That argument, should it have existed at all, is now rendered moot. It should have been reserved for the embryonic stages of the first game (and was likely given due diligence then).

The argument now is to not ruin what is a working system. Succumbing to pressure to add something that is surely an afterthought (since it's clear this wasn't an option when PF2 was conceived/announced) "adds" nothing other than blur to the focus. It's going to distract and nothing else, unless Owlcat can somehow pull off what no one else has ever done before.

RTwP and TB can't live together in harmony. Not on my piano keyboard, oh Lord, or anywhere else. While it's a noble notion to attempt to please everyone, anyone with wisdom knows you can only please half of the people some of the time.

 

[ArchAngel]

The argument isn't to make Pathfinder turn-based. That argument, should it have existed at all, is now rendered moot. It should have been reserved for the embryonic stages of the first game (and was likely given due diligence then).

The argument now is to not ruin what is a working system. Succumbing to pressure to add something that is surely an afterthought (since it's clear this wasn't an option when PF2 was conceived/announced) "adds" nothing other than blur to the focus. It's going to distract and nothing else, unless Owlcat can somehow pull off what no one else has ever done before.

RTwP and TB can't live together in harmony. Not on my piano keyboard, oh Lord, or anywhere else. While it's a noble notion to attempt to please everyone, anyone with wisdom knows you can only please half of the people some of the time.

They will work just as well as it works in PKM but now with even better UI. The game will be as hard as in table top minus players being a bunch of retards that sat together and trying to come up with a battleplan between drinking soda/beer, eating pizza and talking about movies/whatever.. so in effect even easier than tabletop.

 

[Shadenuat]

I think your expectations are just too big

DOS1 with fun spell interactions would be fine for me. Anything would be fine provided TB mechanics make combat more engaging than in RT.

The point is to tell a story, roleplay and have combat where you just need to pay attention

we're playing computer game, combat is main gameplay here.

 

[Dodo1610]

As long as they focus on one gameplay and make it absolutely clear that the TB mode is optional and not the way you are supposed to play it I am okay with it.

Anywhere because some people wrote fake news here: all races from Kingmaker will return including the Tieflings from the DLC + new Dhampirs and the winner of the furry vote (Kitsune/Catfolk/Ratfolk)

 

[ArchAngel]

I think your expectations are just too big

DOS1 with fun spell interactions would be fine for me. Anything would be fine provided TB mechanics make combat more engaging than in RT.

The point is to tell a story, roleplay and have combat where you just need to pay attention

we're playing computer game, combat is main gameplay here.

I played DOS1 on 2nd hardest difficulty and it was pretty easy and mindless gameplay as well. And I didn't even abuse shit with stuff like carrying around barrels and preparing battlefields. I just used whatever gimmick devs left there to use.
I prefer PKM system when you carry your own gimmicks all the time in the form of your spells and you get to choose which one you want to use for this battle instead of devs telling you.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Even in tabletop "genius" tactical play is casting improved invisibility+fly and then bombarding enemies from complete safety.

You can't do that anymore in 5e due to concentration mechanics, not without another caster helping at least.
Up to you whether that is a good thing I suppose.

 

[deuxhero]

Anywhere because some people wrote fake news here: all races from Kingmaker will return including the Tieflings from the DLC + new Dhampirs and the winner of the furry vote (Kitsune/Catfolk/Ratfolk)

They should include Changelings as a stretch goal. That's the last non-furry race of significant popularity without a major issue in implementation (always evil of Goblins/Drow/Orc, flight is the only reason it's worth a damn of Slyph), and has the variety of alternate attribute setups that Aasimar/Tiefling/Dhampir have.

 

[The_Mask]

RTwP and TB can't live together in harmony. Not on my piano keyboard, oh Lord, or anywhere else. While it's a noble notion to attempt to please everyone, anyone with wisdom knows you can only please half of the people some of the time.

I say cautious optimism. As a guy with a lot of k's in his name once said... I think his name was Kafka, but I can't remember: negative thoughts are a poor exercise of imagination. I'm paraphrasing. I also don't even know what that means... but what I do know is that right now it's all imagination.

Let's see if they work their asses off to make it reality. One cannot have too many good RPGs, can they?

 

[Shadenuat]

mounts! double reactivity! class race religion reactivity! lich reactivity! crusade minigame! tb mod! pokemon evolving pets!

yes with all our many years experience of developers promises we can obviously see THIS WILL ALL GO VERY WELL

 

[King Crispy]

No offense, sorinmask, but your post is a perfect illustration of what I'm talking about. You're refusing to take a stance one way or another on the issue, resulting in a rather wishy-washy conclusion and one that relies on nothing but hopes and dreams.

Good for you, I guess, but D&D simulators are srs business, pal. I want it right the first time.

 

[Pink Eye]

Okay. I would like to throw my two cents into this debate, because apparently, I am going to suffer this argument for the rest of the campaign. So thanks Owlcat, for causing this. First off, Owlcat promised that the game will be RTWP exclusively, which means that encounter design will be balanced for RTWP. RTWP has a history of having trash encounters. But that is due to how fast actions occur in a real time system. However, now we have a game that can be played by both RTWP and TB. The two systems are incompatible because, they each have different philosophies and different ideologies towards balance, all of which contrast each other. How will balance be approached towards someone who will play exclusively Turn Based or Real Time with Pause? Will there be promises that the developers will re-balance encounters for TB? What about RTWP? I understand that the rule set is inherently built for turn based, however, Kingmaker's encounters were made specifically for RTWP. Mechanics in Kingmaker were also re-balanced to support RTWP. For example, the changes to flanking. With the support of TB being optional, and being able to be turned on whenever. How will mechanics support that? Will TB players all of a sudden use a different system that is closer to PNP? And what about RTWP players, will there be concessions to RTWP.

I wanted Owlcat to improve upon RTWP, by making it better, via modifying the mechanics, re-balancing the encounters. People complained that RTWP was too hard to follow, or that it was too hard to micromanage. So why not address those concerns. Instead we're giving a system that won't improve or evolve upon the RTWP system.

This is a mess. That's all I am going to say on the matter.

 

[King Crispy]

Thanks for re-stating everything from the last two pages, Pink Eye.

 

[Pink Eye]

Thanks for re-stating everything from the last two pages, Pink Eye.

Hey, you're welcome.

 

[Pink Eye]

Original thought and all.

 

[Lacrymas]

mounts! double reactivity! class race religion reactivity! lich reactivity! crusade minigame! tb mod! pokemon evolving pets!

yes with all our many years experience of developers promises we can obviously see THIS WILL ALL GO VERY WELL

If they are smart, they are going to remove the pokemon and the mount combat tbh. Even though I pledged after I read about TB, I was on the fence either way and I'm not going to be very mad (just a little bit) if they cancel that as well. A focused game is much better than trying to do everything at once and failing at each one. Yes, I'd prefer it to only be TB instead of only RTwP, but that's not going to happen.

 

[Shadenuat]

I just wish for a world where developers can make elegant, refined games where everything falls into place like a polished piece of a puzzle made by a fine craftsman.

And players accepting good games and not shouting for dumb shit like MOUNTS DRAGON ARMOR ROMANCES whatfuckever.

I just want good basic gameplay.

 

[Sarkile]

Okay. I would like to throw my two cents into this debate, because apparently, I am going to suffer this argument for the rest of the campaign. So thanks Owlcat, for causing this. First off, Owlcat promised that the game will be RTWP exclusively, which means that encounter design will be balanced for RTWP. RTWP has a history of having trash encounters. But that is due to how fast actions occur in a real time system. However, now we have a game that can be played by both RTWP and TB. The two systems are incompatible because, they each have different philosophies and different ideologies towards balance, all of which contrast each other. How will balance be approached towards someone who will play exclusively Turn Based or Real Time with Pause? Will there be promises that the developers will re-balance encounters for TB? What about RTWP? I understand that the rule set is inherently built for turn based, however, Kingmaker's encounters were made specifically for RTWP. Mechanics in Kingmaker were also re-balanced to support RTWP. For example, the changes to flanking. With the support of TB being optional, and being able to be turned on whenever. How will mechanics support that? Will TB players all of a sudden use a different system that is closer to PNP? And what about RTWP players, will there be concessions to RTWP.

I wanted Owlcat to improve upon RTWP, by making it better, via modifying the mechanics, re-balancing the encounters. People complained that RTWP was too hard to follow, or that it was too hard to micromanage. So why not address those concerns. Instead we're giving a system that won't improve or evolve upon the RTWP system.

This is a mess. That's all I am going to say on the matter.

I assume it will work similar to the mod where it's just an option tacked on top of the base game, especially since they referenced the mod. Any improvements made to the base game should carry through to the TB mode as well.