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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Pope Amole II

Nerd Commando Game Studios
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RPGcodex really should have a codex.
The Brotherhood of the Codex must protect its esoteric knowledge from the rabble, 33rd degree 'dexer friend. :obviously:

Then the codex codex should be hidden behind the potato. Esoteric knowledge is nice & stuff but nothing compares to potato.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Hell yeah:

Owlcat Games said:
We will add an extra tier specially for RPG Codex, even if they are all taken on the Kickstarter page.

For instance, if you raise $5K to get a Design a Quest tier – we will add one more quest to our dev roadmap, regardless of the fact that this tier is sold out.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Owlcat's reactivity engine: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2768783

Wrangling Schrödinger's Cats: In-Game Events

Dear Pathfinders,

In our last Kickstarter campaign, we posted an article about the process of creating locations and the tools we used. Today we're going to tell you about how in-game events work to take the player from one map to another, from one chapter to the next.

In our games, we put a lot of effort into the world’s reactivity to the player's actions, and how the world changes in relation to those actions. Events that happen for one player may not happen at all for another, or they may happen but in a slightly different way, or with different characters. The possibilities are vast, and every one of them has got to work. One of the writers at Bioware once joked about the complexities of writing for games by saying: “Imagine that you have to write a scene where one potentially dead character talks to another potentially dead character about an event that might have happened or might have not.” It sounds absurd, but this is our reality. Events are non-linear and all of the player’s actions need to be taken into account and provoke an appropriate response in the game world. The addition of mythics adds another layer of complexity when developing the world’s reactivity.

3b0d49d1f3a2f7a40ca6da25f43eab01_original.jpg

We have our own scripting engine to work with the game world, which operates under the “Event–Condition–Action” principle. This means that we can set a list of events for every map, and we can assign a set of actions and conditions for every event, e.g. the “Monster killed” event, with the condition “Amiri in party,” and the action “Amiri says she could have handled it easily on her own.” Conditions and actions are also used in other contexts, such as when determining which dialogue options to display.

6d9c338fd256735e083fdb396b34e793_original.jpg

Whenever the player makes any kind of choice, the game has got to somehow remember this choice for future reactions. In Pathfinder: Kingmaker, we used something called “UnlockableFlags” to do this. These are special flags that are saved as the player makes choices, and each flag can have a number value assigned to it. For example: when talking to a merchant, the player can get lower prices on goods in one of three ways: trick the merchant (1), persuade the merchant (2), or threaten the merchant (3). If the player has the “PricesLowered” flag with the value 2, that means the player persuaded the merchant to lower their prices. In situations where there is an opportunity for the world to react to this flag, we check to see if the flag is there and its value, if any. For instance, if you return to the same merchant, they will compliment you on your haggling skills. Many game projects use similar tools to our flag system, it’s a good and intuitive way to handle reactivity.

Flags can be used in many different ways, such as for quest objectives or for lines and responses in dialogues that the player has seen and selected.

d620d3094c6ac2570e1f85c5a79c85ce_original.jpg

With our scripting system, we can check various moments in the game and assign flags to them, changing the world to reflect the current state of things: characters will appear and disappear, someone will change their position, or an animation will be triggered. We can change the position of objects, the lighting, the music, and much more. All this usually takes place in the final few seconds of loading an area. Dialogue options are unlocked or hidden in real time as you talk to characters.

There were a total of 2,103 flags in Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Keeping track of so many variables was a real challenge. When we started working on Wrath of the Righteous, we thought a lot about the best way to structure our presentation of game conditions, and how we could simplify working with all these variations. Our thought process led us to create our “Etude System” (if you’re wondering why it’s called that... it’s a long story). The system is already up and running, but we still need to add some of its functionality.

In Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous, the state of the world at any given moment won’t be presented as a set of unrelated flags, but as tree of “etudes,” where events branch off and lead to various conditions for the world. Every etude in the tree represents a minor or major event or condition of the game world. Unlike flags, etudes can monitor entire scenes and events within them. For example, the “Meet new companion” etude can be responsible for characters and starting cut scenes and dialogues that are triggered by this meeting. Previously, this meeting would have been entirely separate, and each time the player visited the location, a check would have been run to see if the “Meet new companion” flag was present in any of several areas, in order to start the whole process. Now, you just need to trigger the “Meet new companion” event and the event itself is already configured within an etude. If the etude is triggered, the event can take place (the player can meet the companion), if it is not triggered, the event can’t take place (the meeting can’t happen).

08b9067de0f74bdd27592657a32d69a7_original.jpg

This also means we now also have a tool for visualizing the player’s path through the story. When we load a save in the editor, we can clearly see the player’s choices and the state of the world in the current moment: what chapter the player is in, what important information they gained in previous chapters, which companions the player has and how each companion’s story is unfolding, what locations the player has visited, etc. It’s hard to overestimate the value of being able to grasp all of these different elements at a glance, and this will be doubly true when we reach the bug testing stage of the project.

In the screenshot below:

  • Green — events that are happening now.
  • Black — events that haven’t happened yet.
  • Yellow — events that have ended.
  • Blue — events that are waiting for certain conditions to be met before they can happen.
756d26bbe97c1f5ea3d3166bf25b9ee0_original.jpg


Of course, etudes are much more complex that what we’ve described here, but going into detail would require a whole separate article. Our etudes system is an experiment, and some of our greatest hopes are riding on it. We are confident that our experiment will be successful, and our team will gain a powerful tool for creating non-linear events, and you will get a more vibrant and responsive world to explore.

To arms, crusaders!

Owlcats

a2c1517a9007f74c818899c4d89a9213_original.png
 

Shadenuat

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finally something truly interesting. too bad they don't go into detail about this. I remember my pathetic work with integers on aurora engine and 200+ flags even for small sized adventure lol. and then 20 h Sea dao mod that broke everywhere was also eye opening how difficult it is to do reactivity in games.

the bokken broken was also probably due to all the flags creating a fucking mess. the worst part is that you still need to do so much by hand to make any sort of consistent and believable reactivity inside a story.
 

Riddler

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Bubbles In Memoria
Seems to me like owlcat has a prime opportunity to capitalise on this. There is a lot of anger/butthurt.
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth

Pink Eye

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
I read this 100 times and still don't understand it. Can someone explain it to me?

tl;dr They've found a better way to program choice & consequence. That means the game might have better choice & consequence or at least it'll be less buggy.
Whoa! Awesome! I am excited for more choices and consequences in my RPGs!
 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
I read this 100 times and still don't understand it. Can someone explain it to me?

tl;dr They've found a better way to program choice & consequence. That means the game might have better choice & consequence or at least it'll be less buggy.

To expand on this... it's much harder to handle choice and conseqence when it's all handled piecemeal (the flag system), so they've developed a more systemic implementation that should be easier to maintain and test.
 

frajaq

Erudite
Joined
Oct 5, 2017
Messages
2,596
Location
Brazil
yeah i'm more excited for WotR than BG3 right now

cant believe I just typed this
Why? PKM is miles better than both DOS and DOS2. It is logical Owlcat next game in same engine is better than Larians next game in same engine.

doesnt really apply it to me because I enjoyed D:OS 2 a LOT, but BG 3 looks completely unappealing

meanwhile WotR looks to build upon a good chunk of Kingmaker systems plus a lot more character options
 

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