Interview Pete Hines: Oblivion delivered what was promised

[The Rambling Sage]

People enjoy voicing their annoyance with Pete, especially when every other site praises Oblivion and the forums are mostly filled with preteens thinking its the Second Coming of Christ.

Doing something just because every other site is doing the opposite is just as moronic as doing something because everyone else is doing it. Reverse dumbfuckery is still dumbfuckery.

Actually, it is not. Or it is, but you misrepresented the situation.

You see, if they were voicing their annoyance just because every other site was singing praises, you would have a point. Now, if they are voicing their annoyance just because their are annoyed, and then while they are annoyed every other site is singing praises, then your comment does not compute.

Your opponent in that case said, in fact: "People enjoy voicing their annoyance with Pete" to begin the phrase you quoted. That implies that the Annoyance is the original cause. Then he said, or wrote in this case: "especially when every other site praises Oblivion" - offering an explanation not of the cause, but of why they choose to voice their annoyance instead of just going on to other things.

So being, as you are, unable to win the discussion by fair means, as that would need you to stop being an idiot and actually offer an argument, you misrepresent your opponent's posture to then attack your own representation of it, instead of his real posture. That actually means you are a falacious loser, a moron, a sofist, and a retard unable to have a point by means other than outright lying. I hope you like being that, because if not you are just screwed up.

But, since you obviously prefer hitting straw men because even arguments as simple as that one can kick your ass without even trying, i think you are so royally screwed up it doesn't really matter.

Have fun being an idiot. You have no choice.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Damn but I hate psuedo-intellectuals.


Every other site is going on and on about oblivion, which has been quoted as directly affecting the Codexers response. Or continued response. No other bad RPG has recieved this kind of slamming from codexers. Its because everyone else is so overwhelmingly positive about it, and because its so successful, that they feel the need to undertake this never ending crusade. It directly corresponds to the other sites praise. As VD said "If you have a problem with the bitching, blame the media". Indicating the response of other gaming media to Oblivion/Bethesda is dictating his course of action in this regard. Learn to read?

Sorry buddy, would you like to try again, this time with an actual decent argument? +5 points for trying though.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

Damn, but I hate intellectuals.

Fixed.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Well, you're definately not in that category Dementia. You can't even manage to copy all the words when you quote me.


BTW, that "Fixed" joke? Also really, really tired. It might have been funny originally, but now every monkey in the Codex is aping it.

 

[elander_]

There's never too few bitching. This is something that can always be improved.

 

[Dementia Praecox]

I am a retard

Fixed.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

Blah

Sorry, but it does not seem that your answer has anything to do with what i criticized. I was not discussing the oblivion thingy, but the argument of yours i quoted. You reasoning was flawed in essence and procedure.

He said "We do A because of B and -A."

In this case: We enjoy voicing our annoyance with Pete because we obviously are annoyed with Pete and then every other site on the 'net is singing praises.

To simplify: We bitch because we are annoyed about oblivion/guy and everyone else seems happy about it/him.

You converted that in "We do A because they do -A." And then gave an answer.

In this case: You are doing it because the rest of the 'net does the opposite.

To simplify: You bitch because everyone else praises.

See the difference? Basicly you removed the "annoyed" from the formula, making it into "they bitch to be different" instead of "they bitch because they have this opinion no one else is voicing." You simplified the argument to defacement before trying to tackle it in your own terms. If you really think that isn't a falacious argument, you really need to check your Logic before you hurt yourself. More.

And the pseudo-intelectual thing is a falacious argument, too, since the rest of your response did not even touch the matter being discussed. So i have to thank you for proving my point beyond the shadow of doubt. But i think pets do not know what an Argumentum Ad Hominem is, so i will just smile a condescending smile and call it a day.

 

[Naked Ninja]

No fool. They -keep- bitching because everyone else praises. Keep is the keyword. Concentrate, stop grinning condescendingly at your monitor, and read what I'm saying, slowly. They -continue to bitch-, continue being the keyword, long after its become old and stale, because everyone else on the internet thinks Oblivion is great.

Do you see now how being a pseudo-intellectual leads to shooting yourself in the foot?

 

[Micmu]

We have another pretty princess

 

[Lumpy]

What's interesting is that 90% of the people bitching in this thread have joined after March 2006. Coincidence? I think not.
:che:

 

[The Rambling Sage]

No fool. They -keep- bitching because everyone else praises. Keep is the keyword. Concentrate, stop grinning condescendingly at your monitor, and read what I'm saying, slowly. They -continue to bitch-, continue being the keyword, long after its become old and stale, because everyone else on the internet thinks Oblivion is great.

Do you see now how being a pseudo-intellectual leads to shooting yourself in the foot?

You are still talking like i care about what they do, while i care about how you deformed the argument and worded your counter argument. I am discusing argumentation. You are discussing bitching about oblivion. You still think this discussion you and me are having is about pete, oblivion, and the codex, while it is about you being a falacious idiot.

Once more: He said "We do A because of B and -A" and then you converted it to "We do A because of -A" without developing your argument around the progression of His wording to Your wording. So, you missrepresented his argument to your convenience. Conclusion: You made a falacious argument. Then, that makes you into an idiot who can't carry his arguments in the original context, and has to make-believe that someway the context stoped being important just because - When the context was what created the "crusade" in the first place.

Crusades do not happen just because. It is not "They are not having a crusade, so we will have one to be different!" nor "they are having one so we will too just to not be less than them" - In this context and level, crusades are the physical manifestation of wronged ideals, concepts, or beliefs. You called it a crusade, so i am playing in your terms.

Now, i quote you: 'As VD said "If you have a problem with the bitching, blame the media". Indicating the response of other gaming media to Oblivion/Bethesda is dictating his course of action in this regard.'

And, again, you were misrepresenting the situation. You are saying that the media is the cause, as it is "dictating his course of action." While, really, that is not the original cause. The original cause is that they believe something sucks. No one else seems to believe it. They voice their opinion because no one else will. The media/TESF/fanboys double their praise. The codex double their bitching.

Now, listen/read VERY carefully:

You are still saying: They -keep- bitching because everyone else praises.

I am saying: They -keep- bitching because they think X, and everyone else -keeps- praising.

You said "They do THIS because the universe does the OPPOSITE of THIS."

The situation is "They do THIS because they hate THAT and the universe does the OPPOSITE of THIS in respect to THAT."

In your representation, they are having a reaction to the proverbial universe.

In reality, they are having a reaction to THAT - reaction heightened by the proverbial universe's reaction to THAT.

Thus, you are missrepresenting the situation because it serves your argument. Thus, you are being a sofist. Then, you are a retard who can't win an argument without resorting, consiously or not, to underhanded tactics and outright lying.

You are seing the situation without the causes, i am seeing the causes and how you ignored them. You can't talk about something outside it's context - And that is what you are doing. He INCLUDED the context in his argument, and you IGNORED it alltogether in your response, thus defacing what he said, thus missrepresenting his position, thus recurring to a falacious argument.

Is basic logic so hard for you to grasp? Do i need to draw you a freaking chart?

Fuck it. If you still can't see what i am saying here, be my guest. You are an idiot, says this most holy tribunal. The evidence is before all the codex to peruse as they wish.

 

[Elhoim]

Having studied "scientific thinking" (direct translation from a subject in university), which included logical thinking and common falacies, I agree with The Rambling Sage.

 

[psycojester]

I still feel my argument of "if you don't like it leave" was more concise than Rambling Sages. Seriously why not go post on a forum about Tractor maintenance you won't hear a single soul comment on Oblivion or Pete Hines.

 

[kingcomrade]

psycojester u r a neocon jew redneck. love it or leave it is for retards

 

[psycojester]

If leaving a forum involved packing up all your belongings, leaving friends and family and the cost of airfares and freight for your stuff then yes i'd say it would be for retards.

 

[kingcomrade]

shut up stupid

 

[Naked Ninja]

My word, you are still at it Rambler? Let me make it even plainer for you. There are two aspects to deal with. One is what originally caused people to insult Oblivion. That is because it sucks as an RPG, and people are disappointed and feel lied to by Bethesda. Fair enough. I have no problem with that, nor have I ever denied this, as you claim, in your rediculously long psuedo-intellectual argument. Read back to my previous statements, my complaint has always been that this crap is boring and repetitive now, not that it is untrue.

The 2nd aspect is what -keeps- people posting and making the same insults about Oblivion, week after week, long after it has all been said, long after it goes past funny and out into repetitive and boring. What makes them keep doing that in this -specific- case, about this specific game/company, even though there are plenty of other crappy failed attempts at RPGs which they could be commenting on? Why does this game draw so much more flak than any other, why does it continue to draw so much flak? And the answer is, as quite a few people other than myself have indicated already, but which you completely ignore in your attempt to prove your own cleverness, that the rest of the gaming media loves Oblivion, which infuriates Codexers, and results in them never getting bored of mudcrab jokes. Hell, you know that the two factors are directly related, as you said in your post : " The media/TESF/fanboys double their praise. The codex double their bitching. ". Really? So one factor directly influences the other, as I've said? No shit. Seems you need to retake your logic course fellow.


Now, if you want to argue this point some more, fine, just please stop putting "Fuck it, I'm not debating this any more with you because you're dumb" or something similar at the end of your posts. Its pretty pointless, since you are a pseudo-intellectual, and pseudo-intellectuals always have an overwhelming desire to get in the last word, a desperate need to prove their own cleverness to the world, as is obvious from your posts, because, despite claiming that you were giving up arguing with me because I'm stupid, you continue to do so.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

A lot of crap about the problem with oblivion, blah blah, that has nothing to do with the point at hand

Now, repeat with me:

The Rambling Sage does not care about Oblivion. The Rambling Sage cares about how Naked Ninja used a badly constructed argument. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am discussing your ARGUMENTATION.

You are answering to me about Oblivion, the Codex, Pete, Crusading, Media, and some other things. That also is a Falacious Argument.

Now, answer to me why your Argument was not falacious. Please. That's the topic of our (you, me) discussion. All the other things i said were a deconstruction of what he said, and what you answered to it. Or more so: in what you turned his argument before answering it.

Now, again, so you do not get confussed once more:

My tesis: Your arguments are falacious.

Your counter-argument must be: Why your arguments are not falacious.

Example: "I, Naked Ninja, consider my arguments not to be falacious because they were built in such and such way, and based in such and such thing."

Now, leaving that aside:

you said in your post : " The media/TESF/fanboys double their praise. The codex double their bitching. ".

No, i didn't. Once more, you are being falacious: You take part of an argument, take it outside of it's context, and then answer to your own version of it, instead of mine.

And yes, we have two aspects to deal with. But that is NOT what i am talking about.

I am saying: He included both aspects in his argument. You acted as if he only included one.

Oh, and...

Its pretty pointless, since you are a pseudo-intellectual, and pseudo-intellectuals always have an overwhelming desire to get in the last word, a desperate need to prove their own cleverness to the world, as is obvious from your posts, because, despite claiming that you were giving up arguing with me because I'm stupid, you continue to do so.

Argumentum Ad Hominem, again. So, please: Why am i a Pseudo-Intelectual? Other than just because you think i am. I say you are a falacious, sofist retard, and provided a tesis to go with such claim. Now, please, provide me with a tesis that goes with how am i a pseudo-intelectual - And what does it have to do with you being a falacious retard.

I claimed i would stop arguing with you. But then i come to the forums when i am bored, to pass time, and i am really having fun in my own wicked way. I am weak. I can't say no to some fun, since fun equates to pleasure of some kind, and my mind just does not compute ignoring pleasure. That is not being pseudo-intelectual. That's being hedonist. Mea culpa, i am so. So, shut the fuck up. Idiot.

And a desperate need to prove my cleverness to the world? I am not being clever. I am acusing you of being a falacious, uneducated retard, with a good deal of documentation and two thousand years of logic and argumentation backing my claim. Since i had the reasons to do so, i had the evidence to prove it, and you were fair play since you were in a position of weakness, why not? That's not being pseudo-intelectual, and that is not proving my cleverness to the world. That is having sociopathic tendencies, and guess what? I have those, diagnosed and documented. So, shut the fuck up. Idiot.

If those are the only points behind your tesis of me being a pseudo-intelectual, you are in trouble. And next time you try to analize my personality, try to study a bit on personality disorders and pathologies, since mine are quite obvious, before and then make a good, amusing, interesting Ad Hominem. Those are quite fun to read. But so far, shut the fuck up, you ignorant, uneducated, plain, witless, falacious idiot. So many adjectives! Want to win some more? I have those in droves.

Now, are you going to answer my original arguments as they are, or are you going to accept you are a falacious idiot, unable to understand the difference between a correct argument and a sofism?

If so, be my guest. As i said, i find this discussion to be incredibly amusing, in my own wicked way.

 

[Naked Ninja]

The other thing I love about psuedo-intellectuals is how they can't help but prove you right. You tell them exactly what they are going to do, and they know that to do it will prove you right, but they simply can't resist, because their need to prove themselves correct totally outweighs their logic :D. I've answered your point my man, completely and plainly, you simply can't see it because you don't want to. I don't need to argue with you about argumentation, that is an act of mental masturbation reserved for pompous psuedo-intellectuals. And no, I didn't lie, you did indeed post that, and yes, it is relevant.

Now come fellow. Stop trotting out your "my wicked pleasures" nonsense, its no less silly than your smiling condescendingly at your monitor stuff. You're carrying this argument of yours on to silly extremes because you can't stand to admit defeat. You need to prove yourself, and every comment I make that hits close to that truth amplifies that need. Don't flatter yourself by calling it a "sociopathic tendancy", its plain old low self esteen and insecurity.

I have no need to study further to figure you out, your kind is common as dirt on the internet. Can't post on a forum anywhere without tripping up on at least 5 of you guys. :D

 

[elander_]

You enlightened us all NN. We now see the wrongs of our doings and feel shame. For real.

Edit: Yo, no joke, naked Ninja savior of the Codex.

 

[Naked Ninja]

Well, I'm glad I could help.

 

[psycojester]

Saviour you say? This looks like a job for nails, a hammer and a giant wooden lower caste t

 

[Shagnak]

"He's not the saviour, he's just a naughty boy!" ...erm...ninja.

But seriously. I like Mr Ninja. He shows spunk. And I don't mean that in the porno way.

If you want to be an asshole, at least have some flair about it

See that?
That's some fucking good advice. You fucking sheep.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

You tell them exactly what they are going to do, and they know that to do it will prove you right, but they simply can't resist, because their need to prove themselves correct totally outweighs their logic.

Uh? Sorry? I explained why, and you are offering no argument against that. You are completely ignoring it and going on inside your own little world. Falacious argument, but do not worry. I already lost the count.

I've answered your point my man, completely and plainly, you simply can't see it because you don't want to.

No, you did not. But you are obviously unable to understand why, even when i already explained it to you. You are being falacious, i am showing you once and again why. Falacies are not subjective things, kid. We are not discussing "art" here.

Out of curiosity, are you of an academic background? Do you even know what a falacious argument is and what does it imply?

Stop trotting out your "my wicked pleasures" nonsense.

Quote me. Again, you are turning something i said into another thing.

This is fun, in a wicked way =/= My wicked pleasures.

Fun, in my own wicked way =/= My wicked pleasures.

Also, figurative language. You fail at reading comprehension.

than your smiling condescendingly at your monitor stuff

Figurative Language. And again, you are misquoting not just without context, but twisting what was said to your liking. Are you just unable of having a fair discussion?

Don't flatter yourself by calling it a "sociopathic tendancy", its plain old low self esteen and insecurity.

You have a degree on the topic? Because you obviously did not understand the phrasing, and then you do not know anything about personality disorders if you do not understand that phrasing i used, or the concept behind. I would love to explain you the wording, the jokes, and the facts, but since you are so convinced of your own qualities, please debunk my paragraph all by yourself.

I mean, i am sure you can actually provide me with some evidence of your claims.

I have no need to study further to figure you out

You obviously need, since you just make claims without a single evidence or deep reasoning backing them. Oh, yes, other than anecdotical evidence that has zero value in any discussion on falacies.

Another case of "plain fellow" logic. Do not use cheap "street level" reasoning with me, please. If you want to win, do so: Show me why you are right. Back it with something more meassurable than your oppinion. In this same place, when i misjudged someone/something and i was showed wrong, i just backed from the discussion without any fuss. Also, i abandoned discussions, and the forums altogheter, when the fun stoped flowing for some reason.

That, actually, debunks by itself your claims about me being obssesed with winning and needing to prove myself, in oposition to mine claim of just doing this for fun. Peruse the forums yourself to see other examples that destroy your so called argument. Or, show me evidence that points the contrary is true. Opinions matter not.

Now, we can continue this discussion tomorrow if you want. My boredom time already went by and you are not deserving of my not boredom one. I'm going to have more constructive fun.

And, this is the first discussion about falacies someone tries to win using falacies. I just need to keep the discussion going and pointing at every single falacy to prove my point. I can already make you a list with the "academic" names of every single one along with the quote.

You are vomiting so many falacies in each post that i do not even have to work for proving that you are a falacious retard. That's why this is fun, in a wicked way, and not a wicked pleasure.

To demonstrate that you were a falacious, sofist idiot was the entire point of the discussion. That is why we are discusing Argumentation, not just because. Since falacies are arguments, it is impossible to show the point (you are falacious) without explaining arguments.

See you later.

 

[Naked Ninja]

"In this same place, when i misjudged someone/something and i was showed wrong, i just backed from the discussion without any fuss. Also, i abandoned discussions, and the forums altogheter, when the fun stoped flowing for some reason."

That would be the final phase in the Psuedo-Intellectuals "need-to-be-right" tactic. Unable to win, losing face again and again and unable to deal with it like an adult, he says the proverbial "screw you guys, I'm going home!" and leaves the place of debate, so he doesn't have to face the humiliation (amplified by his own insecurity) of his defeat anymore. Another example of this tactic would be, when faced with inevitable check-mate in chess, instead of losing graciously, he instead kicks over the board in a stupid attempt to deny his opponent's victory.

That's why this is fun, in a wicked way, and not a wicked pleasure.

Your ability to quibble semantics is awesome, I bow to you good sir! Truly, you have deconstructed my arguments like some sort of specially designed argument-deconstructing-machine!

I'm going to have more constructive fun.

Lol guy, stop fooling yourself, nothing in this thread has been the slightest bit constructive.