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Peter Thomas confirms no Friendly Fire in Dragon Age 2

aries202

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It is clear to me, at least from the combat shown, that Bioware is trying to pander (reach? out?) two audiences at once. The traditional roleplaying crowd (us maybe?) and the people who just want to press a button and see or watch 'something awesome happening' e.g. the more action-oriented players i.e. the ones that play gears of war, fable 3 and call of duty, maybe.

To me, even the strategic combat looks generic and I'm not sure I'm ever going to by DA2...
 
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I find it amusing that from the huge list of bullshit game design decisions most butthurt reaction from biofags is caused by that if you play mage you'll get Carver (on the right), and if you chose to play warrior or rogue - Bethany (on the left):
Carver-1.jpg


Those are PC's brother and sister, respectfully, and they are supposed to be twins. Bioware cannot into character design. Or maybe just don't give a shit about it.
 

grotsnik

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Stainless Veteran said:
I find it amusing that from the huge list of bulshit game design decisions most butthurt reaction from biofags is caused by that if you play mage you'll get Carver (on the right), and if you chose to play warrior or rogue - Bethany.

Huh. I guess it's true, then...people really don't like their games having more content than can be seen in one playthrough.
 

JarlFrank

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Dantus12 said:
The conversation in DA2 plays out much like that in Mass Effect, with players selecting a paraphrase of a dialog option from various points on a wheel. Hoping to avoid those situations where you think you're being flirty but end up sounding like a jerk, the wheel in DA2 adds an icon in the center to give you a better idea of the vibe you're about to convey. A heart is flirty, angel's wings indicate your goody-goody nature, and so on. There's still a bit of wiggle room, but you should always end up saying pretty much exactly what you meant to say. (During my playthrough, I wanted to just tell someone I thought they were cute and ended up inviting them to bed, but flirting is open to all manner of interpretation, I suppose.


This is for all the people that complained about "accidentally" sleeping with
Zevran.:roll:
______________

How about... wait for it... actually spelling out what you're going to say in the dialogue options *gasp*?
Or maybe this idea is just too innovative and uncommon since it has never been used effectively in any game before, right?
 
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grotsnik said:
Huh. I guess it's true, then...people really don't like their games having more content than can be seen in one playthrough.
I don't think that's the case, at least not for those biofags who are ranting right now in aforementioned thread.
Firstly, there are fanfic writers and some-such, who already fantasized about characters's personalities (nevermind that they know next to nothing about them, but on the other hand - that is Bioware, master of recycled character types, so they may have a point). They view Carver as this:
pokemoncarver.png

And secondly:
Alistiar and Morrigan are both great characters. If you could only pick up Alistiar as a mage and Morrigan as a warrior or rogue, people* would still sit at the character creation screen thinking "I want to play a mage... but do I want Alistiar as a companion? Maybe I want Morrigan."

And the thing is, that's not fun for me. When I create a character, I want to be thinking about making them look the way I like. I want to check out what various cool things I might be able to do and figure out the best way to allocate my points.

Instead, I'll be agonizing about my mini-Vermire. After all, my choice of class now determines who lives or dies. Seriously. You've taken an element of the game that used to be all about my wants and turned it into an important plot consideration.
 

Havoc

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I like the fact that choosing a class is a choice with consequences... too bad the consequences are retarded.
 

Tycn

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I can see the 1000 page thread complaining about not being able to fuck your sister (/brother) already.
 
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Azrael the cat said:
Overweight Manatee said:
herostratus said:
How many other games have made friendly fire toggleable?

I can't remember having played any. Of course, some would introduce FF in higher difficulty levels, but so does DA2. For all the things you can bash DA2 for, non-toggleable FF is the most irrelevant.

No, but you can bash DA2 for not having friendly fire on any difficulty other then Nightmare. DA had FF on normal difficulty. That is a considerable amount of dumbing down. The toggleable-ness of FF is only humorous in light of Gaider's quote earlier in the thread about how turning it on could mess up stupid people.
[......]
I'm sorry, but... There are many weighty things to bash DA2 for. And yet you keep grasping at straws trying to justify the most laughably irrelevant one? Would you also write half an essay bashing Hitler for his fashion sense?

Lost influence -30
 

Volourn

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So, people are whining that BIO - as usual - includes C&C that matters. Typical Codex bullshit.
 

Vaarna_Aarne

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Tycn said:
I can see the 1000 page thread complaining about not being able to fuck your sister (/brother) already.
INNOVASHUN dictates that you can have them romance a third character for fuckscenes.
 

Kaanyrvhok

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Crooked Bee said:
Fuck, even the devs cannot into challenge anymore. :(

Maybe they were playing the console version. It was signifigantly harder than the PC version... There was no pause movement.
 

Kaanyrvhok

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Volourn said:
So, people are whining that BIO - as usual - includes C&C that matters. Typical Codex bullshit.

If the second C is not related to the first it doesnt matter.
 

Pika-Cthulhu

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Stainless Veteran said:
Some interesting quotes fromEscapist's DA2 preview:
The combat in Origins had many failings, beginning with its unbalanced difficulty. "Was the default setting, especially on PC, too hard? Yeah," admits Laidlaw. "'Normal' felt more like 'Hard' to me."

I guess we were wrong when we said Game devs no longer make games that they want to play, and instead focus on popamole for the Lowest common Denominator. The Devs are the lowest common denominator. Fancy that!

The design team also decided to inject a bit of common sense into the combat. "If you're a mage, and you're carrying around this big stick, why can't you hit someone with it?" asks Laidlaw, pointing out that ranged combatants, like mages and archers, had little recourse when the fighting got up close and personal.

Yes, you carry a big stick as your focus of Magic, and hitting things with this big stick and potentially breaking it, thus rending your ability to focus your magic moot, is sensible. Oh, wait, you dont need the staff to cast? Why have staff then? Why not have a shield and sword? A bow? As for archers, shortsword.

Also, why is your range getting hit? Oh, right, Failed tactical gameplay due to button mash playsytle. We are rewarded with INNOVASHUN because the fucktards that want all action cannot into keeping their lines straight and protecting their weaker assets.

The linear progression of the skill trees in Origins meant that you frequently had to spend valuable points on talents you never had any intention of using so that you could get to the one you actually wanted. It was a well-established and accepted system, but it oftentimes sapped a lot of the enjoyment out of leveling up. The skill trees in DA2 are actually webs, more circular in nature and offering more than one path to the really Hot Stuff skills

More streamlining, not so horrible though.

Kirkwall is awash in color and composed like artwork. Matt Goldman took inspiration from sources as diverse as Akira Kurosawa's Throne of Blood and Pieter Breugel's "Triumph of Death." The aim is to not only make players "excited about what they're seeing," says Laidlaw, but also to "make sure that the story being told is about the character, and that the scenery is drawing focus to the people."

Wait, those low res backgrounds are there to make people look at the characters?

In Origins, you were a nameless, voiceless hero, but in DA2, you are the silky-toned Hawke, a change that may be jarring to those who favored Origins's old school approach to characterization. Which, as Laidlaw tells it, is not that many players. "People generally hated the silent protagonist," he says, but that wasn't the only reason to adopt a main character who could speak for themselves; Having the hero stand stoically while drama erupted all around them "seemed to be doing a disservice to the storytelling."

Read: Mass Effect Players love Shepherpderp and we decided to make it more like Mass Effect.

The conversation in DA2 plays out much like that in Mass Effect, with players selecting a paraphrase of a dialog option from various points on a wheel. Hoping to avoid those situations where you think you're being flirty but end up sounding like a jerk, the wheel in DA2 adds an icon in the center to give you a better idea of the vibe you're about to convey. A heart is flirty, angel's wings indicate your goody-goody nature, and so on. There's still a bit of wiggle room, but you should always end up saying pretty much exactly what you meant to say. (During my playthrough, I wanted to just tell someone I thought they were cute and ended up inviting them to bed, but flirting is open to all manner of interpretation, I suppose.)

Failure in accurately displaying dialogue choices from one game imported to another game.

Because it needs saying again

The combat in Origins had many failings, beginning with its unbalanced difficulty. "Was the default setting, especially on PC, too hard? Yeah," admits Laidlaw. "'Normal' felt more like 'Hard' to me."

"'Normal' felt more like 'Hard' to me."

"'Normal' felt more like 'Hard' to me."
 

CrimHead

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Volourn said:
So, people are whining that BIO - as usual - includes C&C that matters. Typical Codex bullshit.

Sibling sex/personality dependent on your class

yes this makes sense
 

PorkaMorka

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Taking friendly fire out of RPGs is really stupid.

Can't you just have your warrior run in and get all the monsters focused on him, then drop like 3 fireballs on top of him?

That's dumb.
 

Kaanyrvhok

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Pika-Cthulhu said:
I guess we were wrong when we said Game devs no longer make games that they want to play, and instead focus on popamole for the Lowest common Denominator. The Devs are the lowest common denominator. Fancy that!


You just now figuring that out? I know someone that did feedback testing for Fable 2. All of the testers told them that the golden quest trail was condescending and the game would be better off with a Fable 1 map and no trail at all. One of the devs wrote out a reply to the testing team explaining why the trail was necessary. The argument in the letter was that people didn’t want to follow a detailed maps to get to where they wanted, they just wanted to pretend to follow a map so the map was better presented in the abstract. Then it got better. They argued that people would subconsciously want a trail to follow so they weren’t concerned with conscious criticism.

One of the testers responded like a codexer and wrote out a bug stating that it was too difficult to follow the trail and the map at the same time. They responded by adding a toggle for the trail

When the testers used words like difficult and frustrated the devs bunched their panties up and made changes.


Yes, you carry a big stick as your focus of Magic, and hitting things with this big stick and potentially breaking it, thus rending your ability to focus your magic moot, is sensible. Oh, wait, you dont need the staff to cast? Why have staff then? Why not have a shield and sword? A bow? As for archers, shortsword.

Blame 2nd edition D&D, MMOs and JRPGs. To be fair they said a bit of common sense.
 

Pika-Cthulhu

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Kaanyrvhok said:
You just now figuring that out? I know someone that did feedback testing for Fable 2. All of the testers told them that the golden quest trail was condescending and the game would be better off with a Fable 1 map and no trail at all. One of the devs wrote out a reply to the testing team explaining why the trail was necessary. The argument in the letter was that people didn’t want to follow a detailed maps to get to where they wanted, they just wanted to pretend to follow a map so the map was better presented in the abstract. Then it got better. They argued that people would subconsciously want a trail to follow so they weren’t concerned with conscious criticism.

One of the testers responded like a codexer and wrote out a bug stating that it was too difficult to follow the trail and the map at the same time. They responded by adding a toggle for the trail

When the testers used words like difficult and frustrated the devs bunched their panties up and made changes.

Sadly, I am slightly naive and consider the devs to actually be gamers who enjoy challenge, and the executives and publishers the LCD casual fucks that need it explained in plain English in massive fonts on what to do. I think I have confused my Ideal world where the Devs make the content challenging and have the PR/Marketing/Publisher scum tell them to tone it down for more Sales and accessibility with the reality that some devs (if not, most or all) are just meek fucking scumbags making dumbshit for the massive crowds to inflate their 'rockstar ego' status and posturing. That or they really dont want management to descend from the heavens to come down and meddle when they get yet another report that a tester found some difficult, or that the sales figures for their last game was out and the competition made more money because the game was made so that a baby teething on the controller could win, so they are pre-empting the visit from the suits by making the game dumbshit from the get go. If that is the case (and I make no assertion that it is, just that my imagining of the situation through piecemeal information, fractured thinking, and sub-Clevian intelligence and deduction), I dont know whats worse, Devs being retards who make games they like to play (Super easymode) or Devs having their balls removed and being hamstrung by corporate greed into sacrificing their vision.

Blame 2nd edition D&D, MMOs and JRPGs. To be fair they said a bit of common sense.

True, I was applying ideas of my own conception of a fantasy world into one that they have created. Mea culpa.
 
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Kaanyrvhok said:
Blame 2nd edition D&D, MMOs and JRPGs. To be fair they said a bit of common sense.
2nd edition ADnD? Dude, WTF? In some rare instances yeah, mages can bash thing with quarterstaff, I remember first TT module that I had played, our party's wild mage once bashed orc shaman with his staff to death. It was an epic moment exactly because nobody expected that to work, and t only worked because of critical roll and low character and monster levels.
But saying that mages go hitting things with the stick left and right in 2d ADnD? :retarded:
 
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CrimHead said:
Volourn said:
So, people are whining that BIO - as usual - includes C&C that matters. Typical Codex bullshit.

Sibling sex/personality dependent on your class

yes this makes sense

I don't see how it doesn't make sense, either; it's just a design decision about which companions your guy can get.

However, I am greatly amused that Bioware fans are more worried about this sort of fanficcy shit than removing the only thing that kept mages from being gods (with friendly fire, they're merely demigods).

Edit: I also love how Gaider knows that, somewhere out there, there's a player that doesn't know that being able to hit his companions with his nukes is a bad thing and that will make battles more difficult. I seriously wouldn't consider that even in my wildest nightmares. That's why he's a developer, I guess.

edit 2:
chzr said:
Hard - Able to be beaten playing the entire party sub-optimally, either controlling directly or using custom AI tactics.

:?

Tbh I don't remember any recent games that couldn't be beaten unless you are playing optimally - even if you are kind of a shitty player you can still eventually beat the game.

By sub-optimally he probably means making weird class / skill choices and still be able to finish the game (as in, reach the credits, not reach 100% completion) without too much frustration.
 
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Stainless Veteran said:
I find it amusing that from the huge list of bullshit game design decisions most butthurt reaction from biofags is caused by that if you play mage you'll get Carver (on the right), and if you chose to play warrior or rogue - Bethany (on the left):
Carver-1.jpg


Those are PC's brother and sister, respectfully, and they are supposed to be twins. Bioware cannot into character design. Or maybe just don't give a shit about it.

You can just smell the incest mod from here, can't you?
 

Crooked Bee

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Kaanyrvhok said:
Crooked Bee said:
Fuck, even the devs cannot into challenge anymore. :(

Maybe they were playing the console version. It was signifigantly harder than the PC version... There was no pause movement.

Really? Well, console games *are* harder than PC games nowadays, unfortunately, so that just may make sense.

CrimHead said:
Sibling sex/personality dependent on your class

Ah, I already imagine all the butthurt. :roll:
 

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