Peter Thomas confirms no Friendly Fire in Dragon Age 2

[Excommunicator]

So, people are whining that BIO - as usual - includes C&C that matters. Typical Codex bullshit.

Sibling sex/personality dependent on your class

yes this makes sense

A case of completely missing the point of what choice & consequence is all about. Here we have designers picking some superficial trait (let's face it, what chances are there that these twins are anything but male/female version of the same character?), and arbitrarily linking it to a decision made by the player - one that not only has no logical connection, and therefore cannot be reasoned to exist without prior knowledge, but also one which by the very nature of the implementation RESTRICTS variability (taking away whatever dynamic might be able to exist if the player had been able to mix and match class with the gender of their twin-companion). There is just no though process put in this beyond "let us just make it different for different classes because that would be cool, and seem like more choices".

I imagine there will be some offhand remarks in the game about how the gender relates back to the class pick/origin whatever, but all I see is a blatant but interesting example of how amateur the design process can be over there.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Ah, I already imagine all the butthurt.

At least it'll force some people to play as the guy.

Seriously, I go to a site looking for mods and among the top downloads there's always some variation of "sexy armor for females". If a game company really wants to make a blockbuster, they need to get rid of the keyboard commands, so you can calmly play the game with one hand on the mouse and the other on your dick / vagina.

 

[made]

So, people are whining that BIO - as usual - includes C&C that matters. Typical Codex bullshit.

Sibling sex/personality dependent on your class

yes this makes sense

A case of completely missing the point of what choice & consequence is all about. Here we have designers picking some superficial trait (let's face it, what chances are there that these twins are anything but male/female version of the same character?), and arbitrarily linking it to a decision made by the player - one that not only has no logical connection, and therefore cannot be reasoned to exist without prior knowledge, but also one which by the very nature of the implementation RESTRICTS variability (taking away whatever dynamic might be able to exist if the player had been able to mix and match class with the gender of their twin-companion). There is just no though process put in this beyond "let us just make it different for different classes because that would be cool, and seem like more choices".

I imagine there will be some offhand remarks in the game about how the gender relates back to the class pick/origin whatever, but all I see is a blatant but interesting example of how amateur the design process can be over there.

Isn't it obvious that it's a design decision meant to limit the number of mages in the group because it's easier than making classes equally useful or desirable? They can always rely on fanboys to justify it as C&C and whatnot.

 

[Pika-Cthulhu]

I find it amusing that from the huge list of bullshit game design decisions most butthurt reaction from biofags is caused by that if you play mage you'll get Carver (on the right), and if you chose to play warrior or rogue - Bethany (on the left):

Those are PC's brother and sister, respectfully, and they are supposed to be twins. Bioware cannot into character design. Or maybe just don't give a shit about it.

You can just smell the incest mod from here, can't you?

Mod? Its Bioware, it will be DLC!!!

 

[Angthoron]

I find it amusing that from the huge list of bullshit game design decisions most butthurt reaction from biofags is caused by that if you play mage you'll get Carver (on the right), and if you chose to play warrior or rogue - Bethany (on the left):

Those are PC's brother and sister, respectfully, and they are supposed to be twins. Bioware cannot into character design. Or maybe just don't give a shit about it.

You can just smell the incest mod from here, can't you?

The way they look, I'd say it was an incest mod that begat them.

 

[Excommunicator]

The guy on the right looks as if he has just realised that he is being put into a Bioware game. I almost feel sorry for him.

Also the woman seems to be streaming tears, so maybe she found out too.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

The guy on the right looks as if he has just realised that he is being put into a Bioware game. I almost feel sorry for him.

You're quite right on his account, but I think that this picture fits your description better:

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I hope it will feature a sister rape?

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Is there some kind of different origin depending on whether you are a mage or not that leads to one of them getting killed? It would at least make sense, though still leaving the fact that its a moronic gameplay decision. But everything I have heard is that all origins are out.

The guy on the right looks as if he has just realised that he is being put into a Bioware game. I almost feel sorry for him.

Also the woman seems to be streaming tears, so maybe she found out too.

 

[Radisshu]

They are the PC's siblings? Won't their faces change based on your character design, then?

 

[Silellak]

I find it amusing that from the huge list of bullshit game design decisions most butthurt reaction from biofags is caused by that if you play mage you'll get Carver (on the right), and if you chose to play warrior or rogue - Bethany (on the left):

Those are PC's brother and sister, respectfully, and they are supposed to be twins. Bioware cannot into character design. Or maybe just don't give a shit about it.

You can just smell the incest mod from here, can't you?

The way they look, I'd say it was an incest mod that begat them.

 

[Azrael the cat]

So, people are whining that BIO - as usual - includes C&C that matters. Typical Codex bullshit.

Sibling sex/personality dependent on your class

yes this makes sense

A case of completely missing the point of what choice & consequence is all about. Here we have designers picking some superficial trait (let's face it, what chances are there that these twins are anything but male/female version of the same character?), and arbitrarily linking it to a decision made by the player - one that not only has no logical connection, and therefore cannot be reasoned to exist without prior knowledge, but also one which by the very nature of the implementation RESTRICTS variability (taking away whatever dynamic might be able to exist if the player had been able to mix and match class with the gender of their twin-companion). There is just no though process put in this beyond "let us just make it different for different classes because that would be cool, and seem like more choices".

I imagine there will be some offhand remarks in the game about how the gender relates back to the class pick/origin whatever, but all I see is a blatant but interesting example of how amateur the design process can be over there.

Agreed, but I don't think it's that big a deal either. I didn't really see it as a C+C attempt - it's more of a way to guarantee that every build has a 'complementary' class available to it as a party member early in the game. It's the same reasoning that developers used to apply when always making the first party member either a jack-of-all-trades, or a class that has broad utility. In Arcanum, Virgil is a healer with neutral magic/tech, so that he's of some use to just about any starting build (though he becomes less useful if you continue down the tech path and his spells start failing). In PS:T Morte is a fighter with a tanking ability - a cleric would have even broader utility, but FFG's utility is based on being the only source of healing spells in the game, and so Morte is the class with the 2nd broadest utility (if he was, say, a mage, he'd be useful to str/con builds but utterly useless for any build that needs a tank). Similarly, here I just figured it was a case of having the NPC suited for ranged stuff if the PC is a melee-type, and having him suited to melee stuff if the PC is a ranged-type.

I assume that the differences between them are probably pretty small. But even if they aren't, the cost of voicing and writing for the companion NPCs probably isn't that great - it's a Bioware game, so companion interaction is most likely limited to occasional non-interactive banter lines and a new conversation unlocked each chapter/main-quest-hub. As a C+C choice it's silly. But as a party-building choice, it's a bit of a non-event.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

They are the PC's siblings? Won't their faces change based on your character design, then?

Even if they wanted to pull a Liam Neeson, the woman already showed up in DA1.

 

[Excommunicator]

I don't think it is a big deal either, although I know nothing about this complementary class thing as I am not following the details of the game, and I have no interest in the game specifically, I only skim for the design related things found in the news posts.

 

[CrimHead]

A case of completely missing the point of what choice & consequence is all about. Here we have designers picking some superficial trait (let's face it, what chances are there that these twins are anything but male/female version of the same character?), and arbitrarily linking it to a decision made by the player - one that not only has no logical connection, and therefore cannot be reasoned to exist without prior knowledge, but also one which by the very nature of the implementation RESTRICTS variability (taking away whatever dynamic might be able to exist if the player had been able to mix and match class with the gender of their twin-companion). There is just no though process put in this beyond "let us just make it different for different classes because that would be cool, and seem like more choices".

I imagine there will be some offhand remarks in the game about how the gender relates back to the class pick/origin whatever, but all I see is a blatant but interesting example of how amateur the design process can be over there.

A case of completely missing stupidly obvious sarcasm.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Btw, I don't think these two are the same character with sex surgery. The guy is wearing mage robes, and the girl was a Duelist (Rogue prestige class) in DA1.

Nevermind, I was confusing the characters due to non existant personalities similar haircut.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

They are the PC's siblings? Won't their faces change based on your character design, then?

I think I've seen a thread on bioforums, gushing with thanks to devs because if you chose to play a black character, your siblings will have a black skin too. Other than that - dunno, I think they are to lazy to implement model changes based on PC's appearance. And we all remember how it turned up with Bethesda and Foll3.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Btw, I don't think these two are the same character with sex surgery. The guy is wearing mage robes, and the girl was a Duelist (Rogue prestige class) in DA1.

I think you've confused Bethany with Isabela.

Bethany

Isabela

Ack. Once again I'm in awe with sheer idiocy of their outfits. Gritty mature fantasy, my ass.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

As a C+C choice it's silly. But as a party-building choice, it's a bit of a non-event.

As a party building choice it's a dumbed down for consoletards (or dumbed down for developers, rofl) choice that takes the decision making out of the player's hands. Assuming that the player gets to choose how the NPCs level up and that their sibling is always with them, there is effectively no strategic difference between whether the player is a mage or warrior beyond mild starting stat differences because the counterpart will always be usable.

Ack. Once again I'm in awe with sheer idiocy of their outfits. Gritty mature fantasy, my ass.

What do you mean it isn't mature? How much more blood splatter does Bioware have to add before you can admit that DA2 is the most mature game ever?

 

[Raghar]

I've started playing unpatched version on 'hard' (finished the game when it got patched though) and the only tough fight was Dragon!Flemeth.

To both questions, yes I have. I was actually so stupid to buy the game on release, and to play it straight away. I remember the only fight that actually posed some kind of a challenge on "normal" (that is the settings I usually select for my first playthrough of a game, expecting it to be somewhat challenging but not insanely so, which would be for "hard") was Dragon Flemeth (like Stainless Veteran Said), which I had to redo a grand total of 1 times (after the first failure, I mean).

You didn't kill her, neither of you.

Spoiler

What loot she had?

I roleplayed, didn't care about word tank, aggro or whatever, never seen much money, and spread spell selection as a mage quite a bit. I had quite difficult times, until about level 12-15 when I actually get these high level spells.
I wonder, I have fast CPU, which explains few differences. A fast CPU means more cycles for AI, not that it would matter in Bioware game. Or perhaps it was because I didn't bother to minimax, and simply tried to pay attention to story which sucked.

AFAIK that ogre in that tower was doable two ways. 1. You noticed that skill one of these soldiers had. 2. Ogre grabbed him and ignored screams "don't eat him...", thus running around happened faster and ogre was able to get in few whacks as well.

BTW how did you like a fight with Ser Cauthrien? When I look back at my playthrough, I in fact played ironman.

I wouldn't call unpatched normal mode of Dragon age easy, it might be called tedious. However any more HP, or attack power for opponents would only make it more tedious, not qualitatively more difficult.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

I wouldn't call unpatched normal mode of Dragon age easy, it might be called tedious. However any more HP, or attack power for opponents would only make it more tedious, not qualitatively more difficult.

The problem was that 95% of all fights in DA played out exactly the same. Once you learned to beat one of them you were able to beat all of them. And mages, of course, basically reduced the difficulty by 1 level for each one you had in your party.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

You didn't kill her, neither of you.

Spoiler

What loot she had?

I roleplayed, didn't care about word tank, aggro or whatever, never seen much money, and spread spell selection as a mage quite a bit. I had quite difficult times, until about level 12-15 when I actually get these high level spells.
I wonder, I have fast CPU, which explains few differences. A fast CPU means more cycles for AI, not that it would matter in Bioware game. Or perhaps it was because I didn't bother to minimax, and simply tried to pay attention to story which sucked.

AFAIK that ogre in that tower was doable two ways. 1. You noticed that skill one of these soldiers had. 2. Ogre grabbed him and ignored screams "don't eat him...", thus running around happened faster and ogre was able to get in few whacks as well.

BTW how did you like a fight with Ser Cauthrien? When I look back at my playthrough, I in fact played ironman.

I wouldn't call unpatched normal mode of Dragon age easy, it might be called tedious. However any more HP, or attack power for opponents would only make it more tedious, not qualitatively more difficult.

Are you retarded? What are we, third graders? "Nyah-nyah-nyah you totaly didn't"? Mesuring penises with fucking DAO? Wtf, man, couldn't you find some more worthy taunt? Wizardry 7 Beast of a 1000 eyes, for example?
I finished DAO a year ago, you expect me to remember its fucking uninspired loot? Well, I do remember that Flemeth dropped a key to the chest in her shack, which contained her book and some shit, I don't remember what exactly.
And why the fuck are you using fucking spoiler tag? FFS.

 

[Radisshu]

Seriously, though....

Raghar, how old are you?

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

2nd edition ADnD? Dude, WTF? In some rare instances yeah, mages can bash thing with quarterstaff, I remember first TT module that I had played, our party's wild mage once bashed orc shaman with his staff to death. It was an epic moment exactly because nobody expected that to work, and t only worked because of critical roll and low character and monster levels.
But saying that mages go hitting things with the stick left and right in 2d ADnD?

They should have let them to use the staffs in DA:O and every other weapon instead you have unlimited magic burst like an Asian MMO, or Gauntlet. 3rd edition D&D is they said fuck it. Wizard wants to use a sword let em; can even take a level in a martial class and use it well.

Why add a bit of common sense? Why not inject a good dose. Remove all foolish weapon and armor restrictions and let people play the game. I swear DA is designed by anal, cowardly, conservatives. Its overly structured for the sake of balance, and tradition while still trying to be the new shit.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Really? Well, console games *are* harder than PC games nowadays, unfortunately, so that just may make sense.

DA:O had incompetent and unimaginative design. As concerned as they were for making the game accesible to the console audiance they failed to include a basic and useful control that would have made combat a lot easier and better. So they patched the game and reduced the difficulty instead of simply adding the control.