Turn-Based Tactics Phantom Doctrine - "tactical Cold War conspiracy thriller" by Hard West devs

[ArchAngel]

Is misinformation possible? Like you uncover a secret that your agent is on both sides of the fence, when in reality he isn't and it was planted here to fuck your paranoia.

Nope. We had some experiments in various systems where the information was fuzzy, end none of those worked well. What fucks with your paranoia usually is the fact that all agents have secret perks - which need revealing, and could be either special talents or effects of enemy brainwashing.

IIRC something cool LW2 did was that resistance members could be Faceless spies, and if you suspected that a particular individual was a spy (quite difficult to figure out) you could deliberately send them into harm's way on the tac layer.

Except it was impossible to know who exactly was the faceless spy and not all non combat units were part of defense missions.

 

[norolim]

misogyny

 

[agris]

no fig leaves on the codex.

 

[ArchAngel]

Why dansgaming, that guy is a terrible at games :D
On the other hand he is kind of entertaining to watch and much less SJW than CohhCarnage.

But still you should have found a popular turn based streamer instead like Beagle.

 

[veevoir]

So release date when? No agenda here, asking for a friend.

 

[xmd1997]

So release date when? No agenda here, asking for a friend.

So far they said summer 2018. Considering they're starting streaming promotions and will no doubt give more streamers access to the game closer to release I'm betting my money on a July window.

 

[veevoir]

It is currently 27 degrees in Warsaw. Summer is here.

 

[Alienman]

DansGaming. Pretty large streamer. How much did you have to pay to get him to play? I can play it for free

 

[ArchAngel]

That was a fun stream, game is looking good and fun. Also I hope you can make it harder than what Dan played through or is that only because of tutorial + first missions?!

 

[veevoir]

It seems though like a lot is being thrown at the player at once once they unlock the base, is there some kind of "tutorial repository" when you can read on game mechanics?

Also - there was one tutorial on strategic map screen that popped up but did not pause time (I think the one about story missions being forever).

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

That was a fun stream, game is looking good and fun. Also I hope you can make it harder than what Dan played through or is that only because of tutorial + first missions?!

Yes, beginning is slightly easier. Most fixes I make nowadays is making hard harder, tho.

It seems though like a lot is being thrown at the player at once once they unlock the base, is there some kind of "tutorial repository" when you can read on game mechanics?

Nope, I assume someone will setup a wiki for the game at some point instead But seriously though, not worth doing if you want to do it well, and no point making it shitty.

Also - there was one tutorial on strategic map screen that popped up but did not pause time (I think the one about story missions being forever).

Yes, thank you, we noted that. You're from Warsaw, so chance is you've heard our shrieks carried by the nightly winds.

 

[ushas]

Oh, how come missed this one. Looks good!
Another Phantom game to look forward to.

That was a fun stream, game is looking good and fun. Also I hope you can make it harder than what Dan played through or is that only because of tutorial + first missions?!

Yes, beginning is slightly easier. Most fixes I make nowadays is making hard harder, tho.

Is the game designed for hardcore ironman play? Too many strategy games nowadays are dumbed down for the games journalist/streamer crowd and throw the numerate and literate under the bus.

Though won't mind the start to be on the easier side if the game is designed to become progressively harder in the course of play.

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

Is the game designed for hardcore ironman play?

Well, uhh, how does one do that, exactly?

 

[mwnn85]

^^ There's IRON MAN option listed on the New Game menu (You cannot save or load manually - restart the campaign on game over)

Just watched that DansGaming stream. (linked)
I don't suffer fools lightly but how dense does one have to be in order to make the game appear unnecessarily difficult and/or bad?
It's as if all the tutorial info was read and the information went in and out without any comprehension taking place.
Has he never watched a single episode of Mission Impossible or Danger Man ?

Shoots the place to shit in the opening mission failing the stealth objective, misses out on secret info and weapon parts; the tutorial mission just before specifically mentions that using a loud weapon triggers combat.
Maybe the game should add a big bold pop up message that there's no benefit to entering combat and getting shot to pieces.
Attempts to exit through a perma-locked door despite the game telling him to jump over the high wall a minute before.

On the info board segment he's drawing lines all over the place without even looking at why the pieces have linked together.
Smokes the first enemy agent with a headshot + rifle burst getting completely surrounded/outgunned in the process. Capturing is clearly the smart choice.
And surely the first base upgrade has to be agent capacity as more will be needed to send all over the map/complete missions. (it looks like 10 agents max on game start)
It's got to be satire? The lights are on but nobody's home.



Gameplay wise, again I liked what I saw/heard.
I've not yet seen how money is made in the game.
Is it through certain missions? Through gaining influence or blackmail? Can you manufacturer items to sell?
At the start of the game it looks like a tiny cash trickle. (+40 per day/hour/minute?)

Hope the game has a realistic damage setting to punish the above idiocy.
I'd actually make it so the number of evac locations is reduced to 1 if combat is triggered (i.e. the furthest/worst evac point)
Maybe even make the enemy guards converge around the evac point.

Add more physical/electonic/mechanical security on missions to prevent the player from simply walking up to an objective in infiltration mode via an unguarded roof/backdoor/etc.
Perhaps be a bit more liberal with trespassing zones.

It just doesn't look that hard to judo chop an isolated enemy agent and jump out of a window with the evac van spawning right next door.
I don't really see how you can fix the issue to be honest since the game uses distinct combat/infiltration rules.
As opposed to something like Jagged Alliance where the enemy troops are always looking to shoot you but stealth is possible/advisable.
I don't think suggestions from real time games like Metal Gear or Splinter Cell can help either =\

 

[mwnn85]

Is the game designed for hardcore ironman play?

Well, uhh, how does one do that, exactly?

I think you combine IRON MAN with REALISTIC DAMAGE and end up with HARDCORE IRON MAN.
Or perhaps he was making some other kind of funny suggestion

 

[veevoir]

Add more physical/electonic/mechanical security on missions to prevent the player from simply walking up to an objective in infiltration mode via an unguarded roof/backdoor/etc.
Perhaps be a bit more liberal with trespassing zones.

It just doesn't look that hard to judo chop an isolated enemy agent and jump out of a window with the evac van spawning right next door.

You do realize that not only that was first non-tutorial mission, but also apparently of easiest kind - get 1 guy? I'm actually shocked by his luck in that mission, btw.
What I did not like is that there was no way to go full stealth as the guy was holed up in a way that discovers whoever opens the door. Unless there are some tricks in the game to manipulate opponents positions (I think I saw distract skill, can it lure enemies?)

As for evac - a lot of evac points is offset by the fact that you need to wait for evac if you call it too late and the evac point can be burned if you call too early. I agree though that it would be interesting ig some points in the selection would be disabled once alarm is raised (if the game warns about them beforehand, eg. when you check evac point some have note "inaccessible when discovered")

 

[ArchAngel]

Add more physical/electonic/mechanical security on missions to prevent the player from simply walking up to an objective in infiltration mode via an unguarded roof/backdoor/etc.
Perhaps be a bit more liberal with trespassing zones.

It just doesn't look that hard to judo chop an isolated enemy agent and jump out of a window with the evac van spawning right next door.

You do realize that not only that was first non-tutorial mission, but also apparently of easiest kind - get 1 guy? I'm actually shocked by his luck in that mission, btw.
What I did not like is that there was no way to go full stealth as the guy was holed up in a way that discovers whoever opens the door. Unless there are some tricks in the game to manipulate opponents positions (I think I saw distract skill, can it lure enemies?)

As for evac - a lot of evac points is offset by the fact that you need to wait for evac if you call it too late and the evac point can be burned if you call too early. I agree though that it would be interesting ig some points in the selection would be disabled once alarm is raised (if the game warns about them beforehand, eg. when you check evac point some have note "inaccessible when discovered")

What luck? when shooting? game does not have a random roll to see if you hit or not. I compares your accuracy and enemy awareness and if you got more you do damage (reduced by cover).

 

[veevoir]

Add more physical/electonic/mechanical security on missions to prevent the player from simply walking up to an objective in infiltration mode via an unguarded roof/backdoor/etc.
Perhaps be a bit more liberal with trespassing zones.

It just doesn't look that hard to judo chop an isolated enemy agent and jump out of a window with the evac van spawning right next door.

You do realize that not only that was first non-tutorial mission, but also apparently of easiest kind - get 1 guy? I'm actually shocked by his luck in that mission, btw.
What I did not like is that there was no way to go full stealth as the guy was holed up in a way that discovers whoever opens the door. Unless there are some tricks in the game to manipulate opponents positions (I think I saw distract skill, can it lure enemies?)

As for evac - a lot of evac points is offset by the fact that you need to wait for evac if you call it too late and the evac point can be burned if you call too early. I agree though that it would be interesting ig some points in the selection would be disabled once alarm is raised (if the game warns about them beforehand, eg. when you check evac point some have note "inaccessible when discovered")

What luck? when shooting? game does not have a random roll to see if you hit or not. I compares your accuracy and enemy awareness and if you got more you do damage (reduced by cover).

No, luck when moving around. He did a lot of reckless moves like running in front of a staircaise opening etc.. if he didn't figure the rooftop way that mission would go sideways quickly.

 

[ushas]

Is the game designed for hardcore ironman play?

Well, uhh, how does one do that, exactly?

I think you combine IRON MAN with REALISTIC DAMAGE and end up with HARDCORE IRON MAN.
Or perhaps he was making some other kind of funny suggestion

hard + ironman?

 

[ushas]

That's a good point.

 

[mwnn85]

You do realize that not only that was first non-tutorial mission, but also apparently of easiest kind - get 1 guy? I'm actually shocked by his luck in that mission, btw.
What I did not like is that there was no way to go full stealth as the guy was holed up in a way that discovers whoever opens the door. Unless there are some tricks in the game to manipulate opponents positions (I think I saw distract skill, can it lure enemies?)

In my view going loud on a mission is a bit akin to failure, a bit like a shadowrun gone bad.
It's not unwinnable but it should become much tougher.
Ideally they'd would've had to fight or evade all the cops and any remaining guards/reinforcements to escape.
He could've actually timed the van to arrive (3 turns), delayed a turn, shot the enemy agent, leaped out the window and escaped before anyone could've responded.
That's why I think that some changes to where the evac zone can appear are needed.

What I did not like is that there was no way to go full stealth as the guy was holed up in a way that discovers whoever opens the door. Unless there are some tricks in the game to manipulate opponents positions (I think I saw distract skill, can it lure enemies?)

As you say the game triggered combat mode when they were spotted opening the door but before the player turn had ended.
There is a distract skill on the bar; I guess you have to stay out of sight at all times, distract with one agent, takedown from behind with another?
Perhaps he could've used silenced weapons and breached the room - there were two doors?

Now obviously he gave his location away by shooting the place up. What I'm wondering is:
> Do you get the rest of your turn to kill an alerted enemy silently? (avoiding combat mode)
> Do all other enemies on the map know your agent's positions immediately from the spotter or do they stick to their independent hearing/line of sight rules?
> Does combat/infiltration mode work like a switch? Once you alert one enemy, you basically alert the whole group? Do they continue to patrol the map passively or do they all switch to actively hunting your agents?
> Once in combat mode do enemies become telepaths? Do they share information? (i.e. radio) Is it possible to still use stealth/evasion and/or surprise?

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

I've not yet seen how money is made in the game.
Is it through certain missions? Through gaining influence or blackmail?

You have some passive income, but mostly cash is forged by your agents.

Can you manufacturer items to sell?

Yes, although that helps only just a little.

I'd actually make it so the number of evac locations is reduced to 1 if combat is triggered (i.e. the furthest/worst evac point)

Actually, we welcome the player to engage in open combat. It's a completely different approach to missions, but totally feasible and heavily supported by mechanics.

It just doesn't look that hard to judo chop an isolated enemy agent and jump out of a window with the evac van spawning right next door.
I don't really see how you can fix the issue to be honest since the game uses distinct combat/infiltration rules.

We just introduced a rule that only allows you to take down a target with lower HP.

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

> Do you get the rest of your turn to kill an alerted enemy silently? (avoiding combat mode)

Only if you do simultaneous attack.

> Do all other enemies on the map know your agent's positions immediately from the spotter or do they stick to their independent hearing/line of sight rules?

Your position is shared between enemies who see you and those who don't see you.

> Does combat/infiltration mode work like a switch? Once you alert one enemy, you basically alert the whole group? Do they continue to patrol the map passively or do they all switch to actively hunting your agents?

Once they know about you, it only gets worse.

> Once in combat mode do enemies become telepaths? Do they share information? (i.e. radio) Is it possible to still use stealth/evasion and/or surprise?

See above: enemies share information, but you can still evade them if you break line of sight.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

How many unlockable backgrounds are there? I noticed on the LP linked that there's at least one (I imagine the background is from one of the two organizations in the game).

Difference between regular story and extended/expanded?

God damn this looks good though.

 

[Kacper Szymczak]

How many unlockable backgrounds are there?

there are 3 total (CIA, KGB, Mossad) main differences being the opening (first 1/4 of the game), and other narrative changes throughout the campaign

Difference between regular story and extended/expanded?

in extended you get to the bottom of things! not that regular doesn't do it, but there's a second plot under the plot!
some cinematics change, some events are explored more deeply, and there's some additional gameplay after the last mission