KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Grotesque]

Why should the hit chance be lower? You are always targeting a specific part of your opponent anyway with a weapon. The parts you didn't target being hidden don't automatically lower your chance to hit. Usually the chest or the head. What should change if they have individual body part targeting (but isn't it boss only?) should be the areas you can target.

I don't understand much what you're saying but of course it should be lower.

The smaller the body surface area exposed to the cone base/circle, the smaller the chance to hit that body surface.
If the body is obstructed/covered more and more behind a corner, the smaller and smaller the chance to hit the body area.

 

[luinthoron]

What should change if they have individual body part targeting (but isn't it boss only?) should be the areas you can target.

Unless you're a sniper, that's for the bosses only, yes. Snipers do have the ability to target specific body parts of other targets as well. As for the targetable parts changing depending on what you can see, this was present even in the first early demo version where your soldiers were shown not to be able to target boss body parts that were hidden even behind the rest of its body, for example.

I don't understand much what you're saying but of course it should be lower.

The smaller the body surface area exposed to the cone base/circle, the smaller the chance to hit that body surface.
If the body is obstructed/covered more and more behind a corner, the smaller and smaller the chance to hit the body area.

He does agree with this, he just argues that for a trained shooter the cone base should be small enough that the chance to hit should be lower by nowhere near as much as the total hidden percentage of the body.

 

[Grotesque]

He does agree with this, he just argues that for a trained shooter the cone base should be small enough that the chance to hit should be lower by nowhere near as much as the total hidden percentage of the body.

Then the question is how large the base circle is compared to the body and more important, where is it automatically centered on the enemy at close/mid range because I think it is positioned at the center of mass of the target.
Maybe I am wrong but I don't think the game is programmed to take into account only the exposed body area and to center the base cone at that area for maximum hit chance.

What I think how the game calculates hit chances is that at first stage the base of the cone is aimed on the center of target mass and it doesn't take into account cover (thus the high hit chance in the picture), after the weapon is fired it takes into account only the shots that connect to the body. In the video can be clearly seen that many shots land at the corner of the building.
So the probability to hit is flawed.

Another thing I can't understand how the damage is known before the weapon is fired if bullets have probabilistic trajectories.
Even with a hit chance of 80 %, there is still a small chance to inflict zero damage (miss) with a 3 rounds burst for example.

Anyway, there are too many unknowns about how the game mechanics work.

 

[34scell]

Why not just have free aim with the reticle showing the potential spread? This all seems like a bit of a headache if it's anyway going to be in the game.

 

[27]

Why not just have free aim with the reticle showing the potential spread? This all seems like a bit of a headache if it's anyway going to be in the game.

Like I said above - that is still planned. Just wasn't finished by the time they had to have the demo build complete.

 

[Jaedar]

why does it use Firaxis Xcom's 2 AP point?

It doesn't

And yet, by removing the ability to fire twice per turn at the cost of moving very little, you've essentially recreated a lot of the tactical restrictions the 2 AP system came with.

 

[ArchAngel]

He does agree with this, he just argues that for a trained shooter the cone base should be small enough that the chance to hit should be lower by nowhere near as much as the total hidden percentage of the body.

There is a big difference between a trained shooter and combat experienced shooter. They should be like you said once they level up in the game and can hold their shit no matter what aliens send at them.

 

[Togukawa]

why does it use Firaxis Xcom's 2 AP point?

It doesn't

And yet, by removing the ability to fire twice per turn at the cost of moving very little, you've essentially recreated a lot of the tactical restrictions the 2 AP system came with.

True. What is exactly the difference with nuxcom? The fact that you don't have to first set waypoints and then move, but can immediately move to your waypoint? If not for the pod system of nuxcom, it wouldn't even matter.

Will it at least be possible for mods to fix it, or will shooting ends turn be hardcoded?

 

[UnstableVoltage]

why does it use Firaxis Xcom's 2 AP point?

It doesn't

And yet, by removing the ability to fire twice per turn at the cost of moving very little, you've essentially recreated a lot of the tactical restrictions the 2 AP system came with.

True. What is exactly the difference with nuxcom? The fact that you don't have to first set waypoints and then move, but can immediately move to your waypoint? If not for the pod system of nuxcom, it wouldn't even matter.

Will it at least be possible for mods to fix it, or will shooting ends turn be hardcoded?

There's nothing to fix. Working as intended.

 

[Mazisky]

UnstableVoltage

Is some geoscape\strategic gameplay video planned in the near future?

 

[UnstableVoltage]

UnstableVoltage

Is some geoscape\strategic gameplay video planned in the near future?

I don't know about the "near future". A lot of development focus has/is currently going into the tactical part as we had to get the demo ready, and the early pre-alpha build will mostly just be tactical battles - as a result, we don't really have a playable version of the strategic layer at this point. As soon as we have something of it to show though we definitely will.

 

[Alienman]

Is the game supposed to come out before the summer?

 

[UnstableVoltage]

Is the game supposed to come out before the summer?

Which summer?

Yes, the game will be out before a summer.

 

[Shog-goth]

There's nothing to fix. Working as intended.

Working as intended -> Ok

There's nothing to fix -> At least debatable. You can't go "back to the roots" when the most fundamental mechanic of UFO is trashed for a hybrid system that won't probably meet the expectations of "purists" nor "newbies". Somewhat lacked the courage to keep PP consistent with the original vision of TU and no classes for fear of being ignored by mainstream, but Original Sin - for example - tell another story about tactical complexity in recent games...

 

[Alienman]

This one.

 

[UnstableVoltage]

This one.

No. Our release window has always been targetted for Q4 2018. We do have our pre-alpha access starting this March/April though.

 

[Jaedar]

There's nothing to fix. Working as intended.

Working as intended -> Ok

There's nothing to fix -> At least debatable. You can't go "back to the roots" when the most fundamental mechanic of UFO is trashed for a hybrid system that won't probably meet the expectations of "purists" nor "newbies". Somewhat lacked the courage to keep PP consistent with the original vision of TU and no classes for fear of being ignored by mainstream, but Original Sin - for example - tell another story about tactical complexity in recent games...

It's becoming an embarrassing classic at this point: court the hardcore with promises of depth and the lure of nostalgia, then turn around and make the same stuff AAA is doing, but with less budget.

You'd think we'd learn, but it seems that even on the codex, hope springs eternal.

 

[ArchAngel]

There's nothing to fix. Working as intended.

Working as intended -> Ok

There's nothing to fix -> At least debatable. You can't go "back to the roots" when the most fundamental mechanic of UFO is trashed for a hybrid system that won't probably meet the expectations of "purists" nor "newbies". Somewhat lacked the courage to keep PP consistent with the original vision of TU and no classes for fear of being ignored by mainstream, but Original Sin - for example - tell another story about tactical complexity in recent games...

It's becoming an embarrassing classic at this point: court the hardcore with promises of depth and the lure of nostalgia, then turn around and make the same stuff AAA is doing, but with less budget.

You'd think we'd learn, but it seems that even on the codex, hope springs eternal.

Unlike other games this one feels like a real Xcom (or at least it will be once they implement inventory), or at least best version you can make 25 years later.

 

[Mazisky]

Always the same story: the presence or lack of time units is considered by someone the most important feature in the game, to the point that even if a game is good but lacks time units it will be considered shit.

No time units? "Game dumbed down", bla bla bla like a broken vynil

Time units feel clunky, action points feel smooth, period.

No dev with a brain will make time units only for few poor nostlagia nerds that like clunky and old features.

 

[ArchAngel]

When new JA games were made to be similar to originals people bashed them for not being similar enough or not being as complex as a modded version. And those people played JA2 1.13 again. New people had to play with older mechanics and didn't want to. Game was made for nobody.

Open Xcom exists and works well. If TU is your obsession you can always play that game (and when I played it 2 years ago the game was a blast and lots of fun), there is really no need to make that same game but with a bit fancier graphics. Xenonauts tried and made a worse game.

What PP is doing is good. It is taking best parts of nuXcom and replacing the bad parts.

 

[Alienman]

Well, to be fair Xenonauts had to struggle with a broken engine. Xeno 2 will be the real Xenonauts me thinks!

 

[Darth Roxor]

When new JA games were made to be similar to originals

i.e. by being rtwp

 

[Ezeekiel]

Are you kidding, new JA games? They were rightfully bashed... For being complete shit all around!

 

[ArchAngel]

When new JA games were made to be similar to originals

i.e. by being rtwp

There was also that other KS version.
Also that rtwp has some cool advanced system of pause and plan, it was not rtwp like BG or PoE. It was basically simultaneous TB.

 

[Grotesque]

The game could have TUs and still be shit. It's all about the implementation and cohesiveness of all the aspects of the game.
So all the XCOM fanbois that think 2 action system is somehow a breakthrough and a test of innovation should also also step the fuck down.


And the fact is that since the Fig campaign, no other aspect of the game was shown (besides that brief geoscape map generation clip) so we comment on what we get.