Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Lacrymas]

Yes, SoD did have a good high difficulty setting. The final battle was notably brutal. The AI wasn't stupid and it fucked you up if you let it, surprisingly close to SCS. The only part I didn't like is the amount of enemies it threw at you, making me equip my fire resistance gear and spells on the tank and bombarding the enemies with fireballs.

As for the DLC, I hope they patch out the damage sponginess or Josh "suggesting" it to them before they make the combat-focused DLC a sponge fest and ruin it.

EDIT: I don't see a thread on the Obsidian forums for this problem. Why not make one?

 

[Roguey]

None of this boring number inflating difficulty shit that both PoE and PoE2 use.

They only inflate numbers on PotD.

 

[Prime Junta]

As an afterthought, I think one of the core problems with PotD is the armour/penetration mechanic. If it's not possible to crank up your armour past enemy Pen, then wearing armour is completely pointless as you're taking all the damage but getting all the penalties. Conversely, if you can't crank up your Pen past enemy armour, you'll take an eternity whittling down their HP (and if you're juuuust at the edge, then any weapon that doesn't have extra Pen or an extra Pen modal or doesn't damage armour is pointless). For the armour/penetration system to work, the numbers have to line up.

In a system where numbers scale with level this is really hard to fix. Would it work better if Pen/Armour didn't scale with level/equipment quality? Instead of offering more protection, higher-tier armour could give fewer penalties, and higher-tier weapons/abiltiies could just scale up damage.

As it is, it has really weird threshold effects. If you want to super-optimise, you'll wear armour that exactly meets the enemy's Pen, and nothing more; if you don't have such armour, you wear ITEM_MISC_Bathing_Attire_03.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's good that you are catching on things I've been saying since the beta.

 

[Jezal_k23]

During the beta I mostly remember Lacrymas cherry picking so much that he must be the owner of a beautiful orchard.

 

[Lacrymas]

You remember wrong.

 

[ArchAngel]

None of this boring number inflating difficulty shit that both PoE and PoE2 use.

They only inflate numbers on PotD.

Well PoE1 is hilariously easy on difficulties below PotD and from what I read about PoE2 the difficulty only went even more down.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It's good that you are catching on things I've been saying since the beta.

Except that armor system was fine on launch and it only got fucked up after they included extra scaling on PoTD.

 

[Lacrymas]

Even if that was true (and I only talk about PotD anyway), the system itself is not good and it relies too much on fine-tuning to not suck completely. That fine-tuning doesn't really work in a game like PoE2, it has too many variables.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Conceptually the armor/penetration system is fine. Higher defense requires greater penetration. There's nothing wrong with that.

The issue comes, as IHaveHugeNick points out, when enemy defenses scale to insane levels. That's more of a balancing issue than a systemic one.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Let's not pretend THAC0 was a better system either. That shit was absolutely terrible.

 

[Lacrymas]

It needs to be more malleable and not so rigid in an RPG where Pen ratings can vary wildly between builds. It's not a good system conceptually due to that thing alone, let alone the other problems it creates in practice for both attackers and defenders. And yes, THAC0 was better because it had a dice roll associated with it, so it wasn't as concrete.

 

[Safav Hamon]

A solution is deteriorating armor. The more damage you deal, the easier armor becomes to penetrate overtime.

Another cool idea is adding a fatigue system that reduces fortitude, reflex, and will saves the longer a battle goes on.

 

[Lacrymas]

No, it isn't. Chance to hit is determined randomly (sorta). Penetration is a static value of the attacker's PEN against the target's armor.

 

[Safav Hamon]

That's real life though. If you hit steel armor with a stick, there's not a random chance the stick will penetrate.

 

[Lacrymas]

That's such a lame excuse lmao.

 

[Safav Hamon]

It's how physics actually work

 

[Lacrymas]

Oh, I'm sorry, I'll keep that in mind when I cast my usual fireball at my enemies. I have a druid friend who likes conjuring those moonwells.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Now that's a lame excuse. Just because there are fantasy elements that don't apply to our universe, doesn't mean that the basic laws of physics shouldn't.

The way armor was balanced in 2nd edition D&D was retarded, not only because it wasn't fun, but because it looked plain silly.

 

[Anthedon]

So 2.0 made high Penetration even more of a necessity?

Josh, I'm disappointed.

 

[Lacrymas]

Now that's a lame excuse. Just because there are fantasy elements that don't apply to our universe, doesn't mean that the basic laws of physics shouldn't.

The way armor was balanced in 2nd edition D&D was retarded, not only because it wasn't fun, but because it looked plain silly.

I'm saying that something has to be sacrificed on the altar of realism. Penetration is a bad system for this type of game, get rid of it. And besides, you aren't poking steel armor with sticks, you are bashing them over the head with morning stars, but can't penetrate because of some arbitrary number. It doesn't work that way irl.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I'm saying that something has to be sacrificed on the altar of realism.

A realistic system is enjoyable to me. I appreciate when weapons and armor work the way they are supposed to in real life.

 

[Lacrymas]

No, you are trying to defend DF while bashing AD&D. Also trolling and I have no idea why I constantly take the bait.

 

[Infinitron]

It's good that you are catching on things I've been saying since the beta.

It's true that you complained about penetration, but I don't think you offered an alternative other than returning to PoE1's DR system.

The problem that Prime Junta describes exists in both PoE1 and PoE2 - it's a difference of degree, not of kind. His suggestion would address that problem in both systems.

 

[Lacrymas]

It doesn't matter that I didn't give an alternative, Infinitron. First of all, I'm not a game designer and second of all, it's enough the current system doesn't work and its failures are pervasive and obvious, and me not giving an alternative doesn't change that fact. Even then, I didn't say DR is a good alternative, I said it's better than this trainwreck. It still isn't good because it's a static value, every static value in this kind of RPG is bad.