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Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]
- Thread starter Infinitron
- Start date
SymbolicFrank
Magister
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2010
- Messages
- 1,668
What is the difference between a game engine, a rule set and the game as delivered?
A game engine is most often something that allows "people" to walk around (orientation and gravity) and fight (animation and hit boxes) in custom-made scenery. For example, that's why Star Citizen fails so hard on anything that isn't FPS.
A rule set can be a codex, but (in video games) most often it is a customized game engine that enforces all those rules. If done well, the boundaries and objects that use those rules are in text files that are read and used by the game engine. They have a fixed format.
In that sense, creating a game within such a customized game engine is mostly a matter of creating the 3D art and the text files that link those to the rules. Animation and interaction.
But, IRL, most game designers see that as too limited. They have Vision! So, to allow that, there is scripting as well.
Scripting is weird.
For starters, you would really want the developers to deliver something that can be compiled into native code. That makes everything so much better and faster. It also catches many bugs.
But, for that you need all the exceptions and interactions to be described strictly logical, in something that can be compiled, like a programming language. Which is seen as too restrictive by the artisans.
It requires the developers to learn a programming language, and especially to be strictly logical in everything. Which is often very hard for artistic people. They know it in their head and they can draw it, but animating it and seeing all interactions is too hard.
So, most game engines are shipped with a scripting language, that looks simple but allows endless fuckups. Because computers are strictly literal. They don't get "something like this". You have to make sure it all fits together into a coherent whole: not just the writing, but all of the mechanics as well.
And strangely enough, the best way to pull all that off is to make it clearly visible what is happening all the time. That also requires all the rules and scripting to be simple and understandable.
And it also has the added benefit that the player understands it as well.
Too often, the player navigates between nice scenery without understanding what is happening. Which might be cool for a hiking simulator, but is inexcusable for an RPG. Because those aren't about player reflexes, but about the reflex score of the avatar.
A game engine is most often something that allows "people" to walk around (orientation and gravity) and fight (animation and hit boxes) in custom-made scenery. For example, that's why Star Citizen fails so hard on anything that isn't FPS.
A rule set can be a codex, but (in video games) most often it is a customized game engine that enforces all those rules. If done well, the boundaries and objects that use those rules are in text files that are read and used by the game engine. They have a fixed format.
In that sense, creating a game within such a customized game engine is mostly a matter of creating the 3D art and the text files that link those to the rules. Animation and interaction.
But, IRL, most game designers see that as too limited. They have Vision! So, to allow that, there is scripting as well.
Scripting is weird.
For starters, you would really want the developers to deliver something that can be compiled into native code. That makes everything so much better and faster. It also catches many bugs.
But, for that you need all the exceptions and interactions to be described strictly logical, in something that can be compiled, like a programming language. Which is seen as too restrictive by the artisans.
It requires the developers to learn a programming language, and especially to be strictly logical in everything. Which is often very hard for artistic people. They know it in their head and they can draw it, but animating it and seeing all interactions is too hard.
So, most game engines are shipped with a scripting language, that looks simple but allows endless fuckups. Because computers are strictly literal. They don't get "something like this". You have to make sure it all fits together into a coherent whole: not just the writing, but all of the mechanics as well.
And strangely enough, the best way to pull all that off is to make it clearly visible what is happening all the time. That also requires all the rules and scripting to be simple and understandable.
And it also has the added benefit that the player understands it as well.
Too often, the player navigates between nice scenery without understanding what is happening. Which might be cool for a hiking simulator, but is inexcusable for an RPG. Because those aren't about player reflexes, but about the reflex score of the avatar.
Lol, GOG Galaxy... the same worthless piece of shit it used to be when it was in beta.
Install through GOG Galaxy over an already installed downloaded game.
GOG Galaxy downloads the whole game anyway, installs it somewhere, then moves the installation over the old game.
Game won't start. Sits at black screen, no system activity. From Galaxy, from a shortcut, from the exe directly, doesn't matter.
"Verify game files" does nothing at all. Sits at 0.0%
No way to stop "Verify game files". You have to kill the Galaxy process.
Like it always was the only way to play your game from Galaxy is to reinstall it fresh every time. Useless assholes.
Install through GOG Galaxy over an already installed downloaded game.
GOG Galaxy downloads the whole game anyway, installs it somewhere, then moves the installation over the old game.
Game won't start. Sits at black screen, no system activity. From Galaxy, from a shortcut, from the exe directly, doesn't matter.
"Verify game files" does nothing at all. Sits at 0.0%
No way to stop "Verify game files". You have to kill the Galaxy process.
Like it always was the only way to play your game from Galaxy is to reinstall it fresh every time. Useless assholes.
Maybe because "FreeLC" is stupid.. whether or not it is free or paid DLC it is ultimately DownLoadable Content
Yes, I prefer "Free DLC". I used FreeLC just for brevity here.
Rinslin Merwind
Erudite
Tigranes
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2009
- Messages
- 10,350
Cipher was too good in P1, partly because it was too easy to confuse/charm/etc the entire enemy group. I think it's great that they made that far tougher, at least on 1.1 POTD, though the side effects include shittier ciphers and arguably an overimportance of melee types. (But then a rogue or monk in P1 was also your route to stratospheric DPS)
AN4RCHID
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2013
- Messages
- 4,853
I got to the point where I can enter Ukaizo a couple weeks back and pretty much lost interest in continuing. I thought I would pick it back up, but I really don't feel drawn to finish the banal main quest. So, until a DLC comes out or something, here are my final notes on the game:
- The presentation is fantastic. I dig the watercolor art in the dialogue portraits, CYOA scenes, and maps. UI seems much more readable than PoE1.
- The overworld works fine as filler, but I hoped for some wilderness maps in jungles and desert islands. There are almost none. Most of the islands are pretty devoid of content.
- The dungeons are as good or better than anything in PoE1/WM, but they're very small and there aren't many of them. The early hours of the game got my hopes up, but the more I played, the more I came to suspect there was actually more dungeon content in base PoE1, both in the main quest and in the side quests.
- The changes to abilities are mostly not good. Empower is retarded and I usually ignored it. Encounters are ability-spammy. I don't like the way casters aquire new spells; finding a new wizard spell in PoE1 was exciting and designing a couple different grimoires was fun. in PoE2 I have like 20 different grimoires and I cannot be fucked to remember which one has which spell.
- Neketaka owns, but it does kind of draw attention to the lack of content elswhere in the map with how often I was heading back to the city. Could have used some smaller quest hubs like Dyrford.
- The environment art is amazing
- The writing really is awful
- Multiclassing is cool
- The music is bland
Overall: 7/10 - decently fun game but nothing spectacular. I probably wouldn't back PoE3 tbh. Not without that Avellone stretch goal anyway.
- The presentation is fantastic. I dig the watercolor art in the dialogue portraits, CYOA scenes, and maps. UI seems much more readable than PoE1.
- The overworld works fine as filler, but I hoped for some wilderness maps in jungles and desert islands. There are almost none. Most of the islands are pretty devoid of content.
- The dungeons are as good or better than anything in PoE1/WM, but they're very small and there aren't many of them. The early hours of the game got my hopes up, but the more I played, the more I came to suspect there was actually more dungeon content in base PoE1, both in the main quest and in the side quests.
- The changes to abilities are mostly not good. Empower is retarded and I usually ignored it. Encounters are ability-spammy. I don't like the way casters aquire new spells; finding a new wizard spell in PoE1 was exciting and designing a couple different grimoires was fun. in PoE2 I have like 20 different grimoires and I cannot be fucked to remember which one has which spell.
- Neketaka owns, but it does kind of draw attention to the lack of content elswhere in the map with how often I was heading back to the city. Could have used some smaller quest hubs like Dyrford.
- The environment art is amazing
- The writing really is awful
- Multiclassing is cool
- The music is bland
Overall: 7/10 - decently fun game but nothing spectacular. I probably wouldn't back PoE3 tbh. Not without that Avellone stretch goal anyway.
a cut of domestic sheep prime
Guest
yet another reason why I never install that trash. though now they make you install their downloader.
GoG is good about one thing: I refunded my initial GoG purchase of the pre-order of PoE2 and the very next day they credited back the amount! I bought it on Steam afterwards.
Lacrymas
Absolutely easiest way to confirm you're playing with patch 1.1.031 encounters is when you enter the Engwithian Digsite (first Quest assigned to you by mayor of Port Maije) and you walk down the stairs to the center there should be a Drake and some animals waiting for you; this is the "Aloth encounter", as you get him right afterwards.
If there's no Drake, then encounters are still vanilla.
Lacrymas
Absolutely easiest way to confirm you're playing with patch 1.1.031 encounters is when you enter the Engwithian Digsite (first Quest assigned to you by mayor of Port Maije) and you walk down the stairs to the center there should be a Drake and some animals waiting for you; this is the "Aloth encounter", as you get him right afterwards.
If there's no Drake, then encounters are still vanilla.
It's not possible to install the patch and not get the patched encounters, what is Lacrymas on about?
well good that i'm near-finished
Did anyone even USE this item?
Holy fucki will also reiterate
I salute you, supreme autist
That chrome staff nerf is particularly insulting tbh. You get it after (what is supposed to be) a hard lategame bossfight (Nemnok). It has all the reasons to be stronk. But no, better nerf it to the ground.
Josh is again mistaking "unremarkable" for "balanced" I see.
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2016
- Messages
- 6,217
There's a new Rotghast by the Revenant in the South-East corner of the cave.
Plus the Bronze golem has much bigger skeleton support.
And yeah, feel free to get brutally butchered by the new mobs in the ruins
Lacrymas
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2015
- Messages
- 18,111
My save was at the end of the cave, I had cleared it fully and there are no new mobs in there, so that's why I'm wondering if the improved encounters are retroactive or I have to start a new game. I haven't gone to the ruins yet, but I'm close.
prodigydancer
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2015
- Messages
- 1,399
I laughed pretty hard reading the 1.1 patch notes - they'd make a perfect April Fools joke if it weren't June and they weren't for real.
Somebody should explain Obsidian how patch economy works in single-player games. Obviously, they still don't understand it. Trying to sell a bunch of non-critical bugfixes and asking to accept across the board 50% character and item nerfs as the price is never going to work. No sane person will accept a deal that is neither fair nor reasonable.
Staying on 1.02 until they have something to offer me.
Somebody should explain Obsidian how patch economy works in single-player games. Obviously, they still don't understand it. Trying to sell a bunch of non-critical bugfixes and asking to accept across the board 50% character and item nerfs as the price is never going to work. No sane person will accept a deal that is neither fair nor reasonable.
Staying on 1.02 until they have something to offer me.
I assume with the first DLC patch Josh will backtrack on some of the nerfs, depending on what the Obsidian forums and Something Awful are crying about the loudest, but I don't feel like waiting for July to start playing a game that came out May 8.
prodigydancer
Arcane
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2015
- Messages
- 1,399
What I find really bizzarre is their irrational hatred towards the Cipher. I mean the class is their own creation. I would understand if they hated one of the classic (warrior/rogue/mage/priest) archetypes.
In PoE1 the Cipher was nerfed so many times I lost count, but at least there was some kind of explanation: while Ciphers enjoyed per-encounter abilities, all other casters had to deal with Vancian magic. One could argue with that logic but at least it did exist. In PoE2 everyone's per-encounter, so why does that poor Cipher still get the biggest and nastiest nerfbat of them all?
In PoE1 the Cipher was nerfed so many times I lost count, but at least there was some kind of explanation: while Ciphers enjoyed per-encounter abilities, all other casters had to deal with Vancian magic. One could argue with that logic but at least it did exist. In PoE2 everyone's per-encounter, so why does that poor Cipher still get the biggest and nastiest nerfbat of them all?
What? No! Cipher is based on the AD&D psionic!
It reads like a dota update.
All you had to do was make enemies punch, Josh. You goddamn idiot.
All you had to do was make enemies punch, Josh. You goddamn idiot.
careful
someone's gonna come here and say that's good
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