Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Strange Fellow]

Personally I think the entire rest issue is easily mediated by simply making all dungeon areas flagged with no rest possible.

You mean before all enemies eliminated. Because I don't see any reason why my party should not rest in place which was purged from all enemies on all floors.

Ideally there'd be random encounters, but people are afraid of those nowadays

 

[AwesomeButton]

Fukkk... what's with the horrible overpompous writing from the very beginning. That description of the fat, old, wrinkly man in the beginning before character creation.... Made me turn off the game in utter disgust at the shitty writing.

There is also the voice acting to match the corny writing.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Ideally there'd be random encounters, but people are afraid of those nowadays

Some people on codex reduce amount exp from mobs and afraid to level up for VERY weird reasons (IMHO it's look like BDSM fetish or something), so random encounter will piss them off even more.
Personally I never was afraid of random encounters, more like annoyed. They like flies on your screen - you easily squish them, but they distract you. But it's my personal preferences.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Personally I never was afraid of random encounters, more like annoyed. They like flies on your screen - you easily squish them, but they distract you. But it's my personal preferences.

Sure, if the encounters aren't even hard enough to make you expend any of your limited resources then there's not much of a point.

 

[Parabalus]

Personally I never was afraid of random encounters, more like annoyed. They like flies on your screen - you easily squish them, but they distract you. But it's my personal preferences.

Sure, if the encounters aren't even hard enough to make you expend any of your limited resources then there's not much of a point.

The problem is there aren't any limited resources in the first place.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Personally I never was afraid of random encounters, more like annoyed. They like flies on your screen - you easily squish them, but they distract you. But it's my personal preferences.

Sure, if the encounters aren't even hard enough to make you expend any of your limited resources then there's not much of a point.

The problem is there aren't any limited resources in the first place.

Exactly, all these issues feed into each other. The decision to do away with per-rest abilities is kind of a cop-out in my opinion, but it's the logical solution if you're opposed to random encounters and/or the possibility of rest spamming.

 

[Jenkem]

when is the dlc for this game coming out I hope it does not conflict with me playing octopath traveller.. if i have to choose then sorry JOSH.

also I bought AOD I hope it's better than this game.

 

[Yosharian]

Personally I never was afraid of random encounters, more like annoyed. They like flies on your screen - you easily squish them, but they distract you. But it's my personal preferences.

Sure, if the encounters aren't even hard enough to make you expend any of your limited resources then there's not much of a point.

The problem is there aren't any limited resources in the first place.

Exactly, all these issues feed into each other. The decision to do away with per-rest abilities is kind of a cop-out in my opinion, but it's the logical solution if you're opposed to random encounters and/or the possibility of rest spamming.

I despised the rest system in POE1, and I think DF's system is much better.

But I'm not opposed to limited resource management. If, for example, I had 3 days to complete a dungeon before it caved in, resulting in the loss of any items in it, and even a TPK if you were in when it caved, I'd consider that very interesting and challenging.

My gripe is with systems that offer limited resource gameplay but are too cowardly to have actual consequences or failure states for mismanagement of those resources.

In POE1, if I expend too many spells due to being weak or lacking skill... oh noes, I have to go back to the tavern to buy resources that cost fuck-all, wow this is intriguing gameplay guyz.

Not to mention that you can play perfectly, conserving spells, not suffering knockouts, and still have to expend rest resources because of idiotic 'health' attrition or getting fatigued.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Here's an idea I think could work well: every time you rest, Eothas' borrowing of your soul inflicts a stacking max HP % reduction, maybe 5% or something. It doesn't need to be particularly impactful, even a practically negligible amount would do a lot to deter people psychologically from rest spam.

Although this would be a for a mod where you have per-rest abilities, since in the base game even I only rested about 10-15 (?) times or so and I am a serious rest spammer.

 

[Strange Fellow]

I despised the rest system in POE1, and I think DF's system is much better.

But I'm not opposed to limited resource management. If, for example, I had 3 days to complete a dungeon before it caved in, resulting in the loss of any items in it, and even a TPK if you were in when it caved, I'd consider that very interesting and challenging.

My gripe is with systems that offer limited resource gameplay but are too cowardly to have actual consequences or failure states for mismanagement of those resources.

In POE1, if I expend too many spells due to being weak or lacking skill... oh noes, I have to go back to the tavern to buy resources that cost fuck-all, wow this is intriguing gameplay guyz.

Absolutely. As aweigh will write a doctorate thesis to tell you ( ) the Wizardry formula of dungeon + town is damn near perfectly balanced, but it gets harder the further you complicate things. Gold Box is pretty easily restscummed, even with random encounters, and IEs even more so. Personally I really like resource management and would have preferred full Vancian (in POE1 anyway, haven't played Deadfire), even if the resource management it gives you is an illusion. Eventually it gets dull to start every fight at full power, cf. Divinity: Original Sin.

Not to mention that you can play perfectly, conserving spells, not suffering knockouts, and still have to expend rest resources because of idiotic 'health' attrition

This is the same in Vancian, so whatcha gonna do.

Here's an idea I think could work well: every time you rest, Eothas' borrowing of your soul inflicts a stacking max HP % reduction, maybe 5% or something.

Which would get reset when, never? Nobody would ever rest at all. Talk about encouraging degenerate behaviour.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Here's an idea I think could work well: every time you rest, Eothas' borrowing of your soul inflicts a stacking max HP % reduction, maybe 5% or something.

Which would get reset when, never? Nobody would ever rest at all. Talk about encouraging degenerate behaviour.

Now you mention it, the two occasions Eothas gives you bits back, would work.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Here's an idea I think could work well: every time you rest, Eothas' borrowing of your soul inflicts a stacking max HP % reduction, maybe 5% or something.

Which would get reset when, never? Nobody would ever rest at all. Talk about encouraging degenerate behaviour.

Now you mention it, the two occasions Eothas gives you bits back, would work.

But will the player be aware of this in advance? If that is not the case, then it makes no difference. Why, it would inevitably lead to metagaming

 

[Parabalus]

Is there even any RPG that did resting properly, with a tangible strategic detriment?

So something which has costs along the entire campaign, as opposed to limited resting in dungeons which is a tactical difficulty.

I can't seem to recall any which isn't garbage. MotB is along these lines but there is no real cost since there is an infinite supply, it'd fall closer to the restricted resting rooms stuff.

Leave the limited resources/time stuff to actual strategy games IMO.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Is there even any RPG that did resting properly, with a tangible strategic detriment?
So something which costs along the entire campaign, as opposed to limited resting in dungeons which is a tactical difficulty.

Wizardry! I through VI, at least. With the caveat that those games are nothing but dungeon. Just how we like 'em.

 

[aweigh]

Resting in Wizardry doesn't automatically heal hit points, only spells, nor does it heal status effects either. You have to spend money in order to heal hit points, and the prices are exorbitant during the early game. You can only earn money by fighting enemies or selling items, and the only way to earn items is by fighting enemies and enemies only exist inside dungeons; and exploring a dungeon in order to fight enemies and gain items is always dangerous because of dungeon-traps and trapped chests, things which can kill a party or severely damage them.

It is entirely up to the player whether or not they will chance further dangers or chance trying to open a chest, knowing full-well that doing so may spell doom and/or force them to backtrack (which is not guaranteed). In Wizardry the player is always glad to be able to make it back to town and have access to facilities, from the game's beginning to its end. The game play loop is pure elegance in its simplicity, and serves as a nigh-perfect foundation for further iteration.

 

[Strange Fellow]

You have to spend money in order to heal hit points, and the prices are exorbitant during the early game.

What's wrong with Stables->Dios?

 

[aweigh]

Nothing at all ofc. I suppose there is a very small chance a player tries finishing the game without a Cleric, though, heh. But in any case, this is also why it's key that ailments cost money to remove as well.

EDIT: Also spell learning is somewhat randomized as well so even with a Cleric there can be parties without access to DIOS during the very, very early game.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The current system is a classic sawyerist half-measure.

I don't think it's that at all. Deadfire's system indicates that Sawyer basically gave up. At some point he checked the telemetry, he realized most people would rest after every fight and then backtrack when out of supplies and he said, fuck these idiots, we'll make it console-style regeneration except with injury system on top giving the illusion of depth.

 

[Ulfhednar]

So I told Eothas, "Hey Eothas, break the wheel and kill everybody so that entropy wins."

Eothas be like: "Fuck you, bitch! I'm just gonna do my own thing and break the wheel now. Rymrgand sucks!"

Great C&C there guys...

 

[Parabalus]

The current system is a classic sawyerist half-measure.

I don't think it's that at all. Deadfire's system indicates that Sawyer basically gave up. At some point he checked the telemetry, he realized most people would rest after every fight and then backtrack when out of supplies and he said, fuck these idiots, we'll make it console-style regeneration except with injury system on top giving the illusion of depth.

IIRC this was mentioned before telemetry was even in, so it was so egregious that he got the conclusion only from testers.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I had a run in with Rymrgand yesterday. I liked him, pretty badass, not mincing words. The disparities in the quality of writing are like those between social classes in the Cyberpunk setting.

 

[Lambach]

So I told Eothas, "Hey Eothas, break the wheel and kill everybody so that entropy wins."

Eothas be like: "Fuck you, bitch! I'm just gonna do my own thing and break the wheel now. Rymrgand sucks!"

Great C&C there guys...

Pretty sure you can convince Eothas to destroy Eora.



As one of the comments suggested, might have something to do with Eder and/or Xoti not being in your party.

 

[Yosharian]

So I told Eothas, "Hey Eothas, break the wheel and kill everybody so that entropy wins."

Eothas be like: "Fuck you, bitch! I'm just gonna do my own thing and break the wheel now. Rymrgand sucks!"

Great C&C there guys...

Pretty sure you can convince Eothas to destroy Eora.



As one of the comments suggested, might have something to do with Eder and/or Xoti not being in your party.

Isn't this a bit simplistic, though?

And what real consequences are there considering the game ends here anyway?

It's cute but I wouldn't say it's all that special.

 

[Lambach]

Isn't this a bit simplistic, though?

And what real consequences are there considering the game ends here anyway?

It's cute but I wouldn't say it's all that special.

The consequence is a different ending sequence, just like in any other game. The ending itself is stupid as all hell and utterly nonsensical, but Ulfhednar stated that Eothas just ignores you if you tell him that you want Eora annihilated, which is not exactly true.

The C&C aspect in the rest of the game is rather meh, considering that you can cock up faction quests and do the exact opposite of what the quest givers have instructed and still progress with that faction (until the final missions, anyway). 90% of choices imported from PoE 1 end up being nothing more than one different line of flavor text.

 

[Lacrymas]

"Bad ending - convince Eothas to destroy Eora". How is this the bad ending? Seems great to me.