Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Discussion in 'Obsidian Entertainment' started by Duraframe300, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. veevoir Klytus, I'm bored Patron

    veevoir
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,797
    Location:
    Riding the train, high on cocaine
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
    Sensuki - that is really not you? Missing a chance for a lot of internet fame and heavy brofisting, this Antonov fellow.

    My potato racial bonus to finding conspiracies is tingling. Maybe it would be bad to show the version?
     
    ^ Top  
  2. Shannow Waster of Time

    Shannow
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    6,386
    Location:
    Finnegan's Wake
    "Bigger" in what capacity? More content? More explorable landmass? More quality(TM) explorable landmass? Longer playtime? Longer playtime of quality(TM) content? Etc. I think you're getting my point. Lots of sources for contention with an "objectively" correct answer being very improbable.
    Having played (and still not nearly finished WL2) I'd say that has a lot of landmass to explore. I'd be surpized if PE has as much. (Simply going by comments from Sensuki a few months back, which suggested that PE would not exactly be fuckhuge. [EDIT] Sawyer disagrees. LOL [/EDIT]) On the other hand I'd expect PE to have less empty areas/more content...
    *shrug*

    I also don't think, that it's a good means to measure cost of 3d vs 2d. Since the game budgets might have been similar, but that doesn't mean that the graffix budgets were similar. Unless some employees from both studios would like to enlighten us ;)

    Anyway, given the release discussions:
    Anybody else planning on leaving PE alone for a weak or two after release? Just to wait out the inevitable hot-fixes/patches. (I don't expect that I'll manage to actually resist the draw. But until I give in, it'll stay my plan.)
     
    ^ Top  
  3. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer Sad Loser

    J_C
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    16,529
    Location:
    Pannonia
    Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    I will resist for a few days, until the first 1-2 patch comes out which fixes the upcoming critical problems, but then I will jump right into it. Eh, who am I kidding, I will jump right into it. I have a lucky star which prevents me from the bugs of Obsidian games, so I don't expect anything serious.
     
    ^ Top  
  4. J_C One Bit Studio Patron Developer Sad Loser

    J_C
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Messages:
    16,529
    Location:
    Pannonia
    Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Ok, I'm fucking butthurt because of this. Is this what is called game journalism today? The idiot doesn't know how to play (while saying that he has a long time RPG experience), he barely mentions that this is a beta, God knows which versions he is playing (he mentions that not the ones that other backers, which asks the questions, where did he get his backer copy).

    Thankfully not many might have read the article, because there is only 1 comment on it. And that comment at least shows how mentally handicapped the writer is:
    Dear Patrick,
    Congratulations on finding the Pause button! What an adventure that must have been! It's customary to read up on a game before playing a closed beta version, so be sure to do that next time, before you've made yourself look silly.

    Edit: Not cool Infinitron , not cool. :rpgcodex:
    Show Spoiler

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2015
    ^ Top  
  5. Copper Savant

    Copper
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    469
    There's some nice work there on those adra concept pieces.
     
    ^ Top  
  6. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    29,203
    Looking forward to Absurdian making the same mistake inXile did by giving reviewers early copies for day-one reviews. :cool:

    At least Feargus isn't the type of person to publicly rant about getting docked points for bugs.
     
    ^ Top  
  7. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,611
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    I can confirm that they are doing this, but I don't know when the review patch gets sent out. Probably not yet, I would assume. Start of March, perhaps ?
     
    ^ Top  
  8. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    29,203
    Since it's soooooooooooooooooooo big I estimate roughly a month or three weeks before release.
     
    ^ Top  
  9. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,611
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    Well I found what's causing the main issue with pathfinding, so if they fix that before the press patch, that should reduce that complaint to a minimum.
     
    ^ Top  
  10. Starwars Arcane

    Starwars
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    2,626
    Location:
    Sweden
    Did you send it directly to a dev? Figured that might be important to warrant it.
     
    ^ Top  
  11. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,611
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    No, I just reported it in the bug forums. I'll PM Adam Brennecke I suppose.
     
    ^ Top  
  12. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,398
    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Well I'm just curious. If WL2 does have more explorable landmass it would be a data point supporting my claim that bad 3D is cheaper than good 2D.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  13. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

    Grunker
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    22,432
    Location:
    Copenhagen
    Not really. It could indicate tons of other things like focus in development and less interaction per pixel.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. tuluse Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    tuluse
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Messages:
    11,398
    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    You seem to think a data point supporting something means it's proves it. I never asserted that, just that this would be supporting evidence.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  15. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,872,878
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    The ideal solution seems fairly obvious to me: Delay the release of the game until several weeks after it reaches what the developers consider to be build 1.0, a version acceptable for both playing and reviewing.

    The game discs could then be manufactured—with a proper version of the game on-disc—and shipped in time to reach many customers on or near the release date. Physical backers could be sent their complete game packages without worry, because although some backers would no doubt receive their copies early and then immediately leak the game to the Internet, those leaks would be of version 1.0 of the game. Therefore, any "underground press" the game received would be fair enough—the equivalent of independent reviews. As for actual, "professional" reviewers, they could be sent v1.0 review copies ASAP to begin formulating their opinions. Nothing too unusual there. Meanwhile, the developers could continue squashing bugs and iterating, then release a patch with these fixes shortly after the game is released, on release day if necessary.

    The only potential downsides to this are as follows:

    • spoiled babies might complain about waiting 2-3% longer to play the game (no one cares; also, they wouldn't even need to know)
    • Obsidian is desperate to get money immediately (shouldn't be an issue, as their financial solvency purportedly doesn't rely on PoE)
    • timing issues with other computer game releases, especially RPGs (this is the only legitimate downside)

    It's too late for all that now, though. PoE will apparently be rushed out the door almost as soon as it's considered acceptably playable and reviewable.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  16. Shannow Waster of Time

    Shannow
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    6,386
    Location:
    Finnegan's Wake
    I think you underestimate how much the "spoiled babies" would complain. And how much of a reputation that kind of negativity can build. Especially if they do find out.
    And there is no reason to keep the digital players from playing longer than neccessary. At least if you consider v1.0 to be fit for playing.
    Anyway, that train has left town a while ago. I expect OE will handle it better next time.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Blaine Cis-Het Oppressor Patron

    Blaine
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1,872,878
    Location:
    Roanoke, VA
    Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Are you replying on an Internet forum, or lettering a comic book?

    The spoiled babies don't have to know jack shit. All of those logistics could be handled internally. Even if they weren't, the stated purpose—to deliver a DRM-free 1.0 disc on or around launch day—is ample justification. Most of the time, when developers announce delays, they're measured in months or years, and absolutely no explanation (or an unsatisfying one) is offered.

    Yes, there is: To avoid the quandary that sparked this entire discussion in the first place. That is a reason, and a very good one.

    This game is luxury entertainment, not emergency rations. No one needs to have it three or four weeks earlier.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  18. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    29,203
    PoE's budget is gone, they can't do this. :M
     
    ^ Top  
  19. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,379
    Hey Sensuki, do you know in which updates / sawyer videos mentioned the skeuomorphic UI? I'm drafting a post on their forums and want to use their own words. My googling is failing me, mainly due to shitty new google's search method.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2011
    Messages:
    87,281
    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Note: Skeuomorphic does not mean "solid UI". It means a UI that visually appears to be constructed out of physical materials (wood, metal, etc), regardless of whether it is a solid frame on the edges of the screen or a bunch of floaty bits.
     
    ^ Top  
  21. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,611
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    Art Update 54 thread, and various interviews.

    I would not consider the floating portraits to be skeuomorphic, personally. It's like the bare fucking minimum.
     
    ^ Top  
  22. agris Arcane Patron

    agris
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,379
    I know, it's essentially stylized to give the appearance of a material or function while not being of it.

    I got update 54, but if there's one interview you could point to where Josh or Adam discuss it, I would appreciate it.

    edit: this post by Brennecke is the most telling, and I think completely contradicts what they've said in the past. But I want to be sure I know what it is they promised, and am not just pissed at unrealized unstated expectations.

     
    ^ Top  
  23. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,611
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    The massive PCWorld one from December 2013, is one where they talk about the UI a bit.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  24. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,611
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
    Made a "bug report" here about passives that don't activate until the combat state has begun, which means that you don't get those bonuses if you attack from Stealth (you know, like you're supposed to with a Rogue who has passives) or attack a neutral NPC.

    http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70527-435-combat-state-its-pointless-to-attack-before-seen/

    When you attack from Stealth, you only get the Sneak Attack bonus for being a Rogue, you don't get any of their other good stuff like Dirty Fighting, Deep Wounds or anything like that. It's an artificial limitation. To get around it you have to exit Stealth, let the enemy see you so that the combat state begins, THEN make your attack.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  25. Sensuki Arcane Cuck

    Sensuki
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,611
    Location:
    Australia
    Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 5
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.