Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Trashos]

Not sure if NV had that better of both thing, but combat in that game isn't really comparable.

IIRC stuff like armor pen was deemed too mathy even for WoW and removed.

Yes, apparently it did. Here is FONV's damage calculation:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_combat
Look at about the middle. Dam_adj1 depends on DR, DT_adj depends on DT, and Dam_adj2 (which is the value that is carried to the next step) either: a) depends on DR or b) depends on both DR and DT.

Look at that fucking FONV's damage calculation, gentlemen. Similarly to what is happening in PoE, it really does not help players pre-calculate their damage in order to make informed decisions on the weapons and bullets they use. That calculation is not there to serve the player.

On the other hand, FONV is FPS, not RTwP. In RTwP, nerds like myself pause a billion times every attosecond to calculate their odds and probabilities of success. RTwP is supposed to cater for that, that's why the "wP" part is there. PoEs systems though seem to copy FONV (kind of), they are not very friendly to on-the-fly calculation by the player. I agree with Awesome that this is a big issue. We want them to be sophisticated but manageable.

 

[AwesomeButton]

What a desperate imaginary world that they have in that game. Everyone suffers from manchin.

It's like there were beautiful portraits at the beginning, then someone came in the room and said "Guys, the fact that we're doing a fantasy setting doesn't mean we have to reinforce unrealistic beauty standards!". And we get Pallegina looking like a trans-gender bird-kin.

 

[unfairlight]

Imagine being such a pathetic little rat that you think everyone has to be ugly in a video game in a fantasy world.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I've been pondering this, and...
On one hand, portrait preferences is a very subjective thing. Player perception of the characters is sacred, how he imagines them, what he sees as characteristic of each of them, etc.

But on the other hand, the above is true in a great measure only when the game's story and characters are left largely alone by the talent of game writers. It makes much more sense to have custom portraits in a full party creation game like IWD than in a game with not only predefined party members, but party members burdened by the immense writing talents and mature style of writers, which both BG games contain in abundance as we all unanimously will, no doubt, agree...

The more opinionated a game is about its characters, the less sense it makes to go for custom portraits, and the better the pre-defined portraits need to fit the characters. That's what I'm saying.

 

[Parabalus]

Not sure if NV had that better of both thing, but combat in that game isn't really comparable.

IIRC stuff like armor pen was deemed too mathy even for WoW and removed.

Yes, apparently it did. Here is FONV's damage calculation:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_combat
Look at about the middle. Dam_adj1 depends on DR, Dam_adj depends on DT, and Dam_adj2 (which is the value that is carried to the next step) either: a) depends on DR or b) depends on both DR and DT.

Look at that fucking FONV's damage calculation, gentlemen. Similarly to what is happening in PoE, it really does not help players pre-calculate their damage in order to make informed decisions on the weapons and bullets they use. That calculation is not there to serve the player.

On the other hand, FONV is FPS, not RTwP. In RTwP, nerds like myself pause a billion times every attosecond to calculate their odds and probabilities of success. RTwP is supposed to cater for that, that's why the "wP" part is there. PoEs systems though seem to copy FONV (kind of), they are not very friendly to on-the-fly calculation by the player. I agree with Awesome that this is a big issue. We want them to be sophisticated but manageable.

So NV applies both on every attack, but has a minimum so DT doesn't reduce to 0. This is similar to PoE having a minimum for DR(=DT in NV terms).
Yeah, that's what I meant it not mattering too much in NV, you just shoot stuff till it dies, if you have to shoot 4 or 6 times doesn't really matter.

Deadfire if I followed correctly currently doesn't have have DT at all and DR is function of (your PEN - their ARMOR), and can be >1 (overpen). Could be pretty good if there is meaningful gameplay in PEN - ARMOR, somehow I have my doubts.

What a desperate imaginary world that they have in that game. Everyone suffers from manchin.

It's like there were beautiful portraits at the beginning, then someone came in the room and said "Guys, the fact that we're doing a fantasy setting doesn't mean we have to reinforce unrealistic beauty standards!". And we get Pallegina looking like a trans-gender bird-kin.

I don't think anyone is really that bad except Pallegina, most portraits in IE games weren't exactly lookers either.

This is the last woman NPC, looks like the Sand Snake from GoT. The male portraits all seem fine to me.

 

[The Fish]

Appalling waifu material is the bane of western RPGs.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't think anyone is really that bad except Pallegina, most portraits in IE games weren't exactly lookers either.

The wrong angle of Xoti's face still bugs me, and I prefer the more cheerful Ydwin, but overall, you're right. About the IE games party members portraits, yes, they were far less pretentious, both in general and compared to PoE's. From today's perspective I dislike some of them, but back when I played it for the first time, I found them alright.

This is the last woman NPC, looks like the Sand Snake from GoT. The male portraits all seem fine to me.

Yes, this was brought up when the portrait was first shown, I think in a Josh-tweeted photo made with a phone of an office display. The actress was Indira Varma. Well, after seeing Elisha Cuthbert photoshopped on Imoen's BGII portrait, I'm ready to accept this actor aping act :D

Not to mention all the brain damage from scouring the internet for good and original portrait-material. I'll publish my collection of tasteful mostly IWD-themed portraits soon.

My wife just now - "You know, when Edwin turned into a woman, we should have renamed him to Ydwin"

 

[Trashos]

I hope that the dickless mod who prospered the "RPG developers are making girls uglier on purpose" thread with no explanation is happy with himself. No matter, it is going to return reborn when appropriate.

Sometimes, I feel I have to rethink my abortion beliefs.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I hope that the dickless mod who prospered the "RPG developers are making girls uglier on purpose" thread with no explanation is happy with himself. No matter, it is going to return reborn when appropriate.

Sometimes, I feel I have to rethink my abortion beliefs.

Lol, the eyes disparity. Someone has been learning to draw faces. That's ok, but why post botched stuff to the public? Also, do you see the resemblance to a certain Obsidian spokesperson?

I am a mature (ahem) and ex-married man. I don't *need* beautiful females like I did when I was 20, but I still enjoy beauty and femininity.

 

[Trashos]

OK, let's hear it. Do the gentlemen who voted my post "retarded" care to explain themselves? I am genuinely interested in hearing your thought process.

Also, do you see the resemblance to a certain Obsidian spokesperson?

She is going to end up looking worse than that, if she keeps on putting weight.

 

[moon knight]

So I guess Obsidian is now a progressive studio?

 

[AwesomeButton]

In all honesty, I think she can look as good as she decides, depending on the occasion.

 

[Infinitron]

Lol, the eyes disparity. Someone has been learning to draw faces. That's ok, but why post botched stuff to the public?

? It's obviously on purpose. Different-sized eyes are often used to illustrate hard-living working-class type characters with gruff personalities.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Lol, the eyes disparity. Someone has been learning to draw faces. That's ok, but why post botched stuff to the public?

? It's obviously on purpose. Different-sized eyes are often used to illustrate hard/working-class type characters.

I don't know if this is serious. Give me some examples of such portraits, as you say are often made, and I'll easily give you examples of portraits which have simply been ineptly drawn.

I'm not ruling out that you may be right and this may be the deviantart brain damage twisting my perceptions.

 

[Trashos]

So I guess Obsidian is now a progressive studio?

Let's just say that their cultural beliefs, as expressed through their portraits, are not, er, balanced.

 

[Sentinel]

So I guess Obsidian is now a progressive studio?

They've always been one, difference is Avellone liked writing and exploring philosophical themes in a videogame environment, now Obsidian does thinly veiled social commentary on what the trannies on twitter are rambling about.

Infinitron See T(y)ranny and the 10 minute long conversation with Tunon about how gender doesnt matter bro lol its just a social construct

 

[SausageInYourFace]

It's like there were beautiful portraits at the beginning, then someone came in the room and said "Guys, the fact that we're doing a fantasy setting doesn't mean we have to reinforce unrealistic beauty standards!". And we get Pallegina looking like a trans-gender bird-kin.

To be honest, I find it rather unrealistic and unimmersive to always run around with a bunch of supermodels. Certain defects or deferences from common beauty standards can go a long way to give a character some personality.

The reason why this doesn't work in Bioware games at all is mostly because we are dealing with 3D models and if you introduce 'deliberate uglyness' chances are you are already deep down in uncanny valley. But thats not the case with portraits in these kind of games.

In any case, we all know how easily replacable portraits are anway.

 

[unfairlight]

It's like there were beautiful portraits at the beginning, then someone came in the room and said "Guys, the fact that we're doing a fantasy setting doesn't mean we have to reinforce unrealistic beauty standards!". And we get Pallegina looking like a trans-gender bird-kin.

To be honest, I find it rather unrealistic and unimmersive to always run around with a bunch of supermodels. Certain defects or deferences from common beauty standards can go a long way to give a character some personality.

The reason why this doesn't work in Bioware games at all is mostly because we are dealing with 3D models and if you introduce 'deliberate uglyness' chances are you are already deep down in uncanny valley. But thats not the case with portraits in these kind of games.

In any case, we all know how easily replacable portraits are anway.

I personally find it unrealistic and unimmersive to give every single NPC a fatal dose of manchin.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't know if this is serious. Give me some examples of such portraits, as you say are often made, and I'll easily give you examples of portraits which have simply been ineptly drawn.

I'm not ruling out that you may be right and this may be the deviantart brain damage twisting my perceptions.

I'm being serious. This appears to be some sort of gruff peasant woman who can join your ship's crew, not a waifu heroine: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Iztala

Such characters are often drawn with physical imperfections such as facial asymmetry, as if to illustrate that a hard life has literally worn them down.

Assymmetric eyes are also often used as a way to make characters look clever/sassy, like the character is giving you "the eye". Notoriously used in Dreamworks movies.

EDIT: Not sure that wiki page is right about her gender lol

 

[Parabalus]

OK, let's hear it. Do the gentlemen who voted my post "retarded" care to explain themselves? I am genuinely interested in hearing your thought process.

Do you think that portraits in Bg2 were better? Not art quality/style, but the people depicted.

http://baldursgate.wikia.com/wiki/Portraits

They maybe have more ?character? , but the people are uglier or sameish, def. not more baseline beautiful.

 

[CptMace]

I'm being serious. This appears to be some sort of gruff peasant woman who can join your ship's crew, not a waifu heroine: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Iztala

Such characters are often drawn with physical imperfections such as facial asymmetry, as if to illustrate that a hard life has literally worn them down.

Assymmetric eyes are also often used as a way to make characters look clever/sassy, like the character is giving you "the eye". Notoriously used in Dreamworks movies.

Iztala is a male Savannah human

Portraits are so realist and believable, we can't tell if npcs are male or female at first glance. Just like in real life, where it's impossible to assume one's gender !

But Infinitron is right imo. I don't know if it's a trend though, but it's definitely a deliberate way to show that someone's been through shit in his life.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't know if this is serious. Give me some examples of such portraits, as you say are often made, and I'll easily give you examples of portraits which have simply been ineptly drawn.

I'm not ruling out that you may be right and this may be the deviantart brain damage twisting my perceptions.

I'm being serious. This appears to be some sort of gruff peasant woman who can join your ship's crew, not a waifu heroine: https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Iztala

Such characters are often drawn with physical imperfections such as facial asymmetry, as if to illustrate that a hard life has literally worn them down.

Assymmetric eyes are also often used as a way to make characters look clever/sassy, like the character is giving you "the eye". Notoriously used in Dreamworks movies.

Nice. Well, it's evident how on the crew member portrait her his left side is asymmetrical, whereas it's symmetrical on the conversation portrait.

Iztala is a male Savannah human

Portraits are so realist and believable, we can't tell if npcs are male or female at first glance. Just like in real life, where it's impossible to assume one's gender !

This is getting better and better.

 

[Infinitron]

Iztala is a male Savannah human

Yeah I think some of those wiki pages for characters who aren't in the backer beta and were only discovered by digging through the game files might be inaccurate.

 

[Trashos]

It's like there were beautiful portraits at the beginning, then someone came in the room and said "Guys, the fact that we're doing a fantasy setting doesn't mean we have to reinforce unrealistic beauty standards!". And we get Pallegina looking like a trans-gender bird-kin.

To be honest, I find it rather unrealistic and unimmersive to always run around with a bunch of supermodels. Certain defects or deferences from common beauty standards can go a long way to give a character some personality.

The reason why this doesn't work in Bioware games at all is mostly because we are dealing with 3D models and if you introduce 'deliberate uglyness' chances are you are already deep down in uncanny valley. But thats not the case with portraits in these kind of games.

In any case, we all know how easily replacable portraits are anway.

No, portraits are not easily replaceable, when the characters have been written to match the portrait (or the portrait has been drawn to match the character).

I have said it before, here it is again: Women in UglyPOEple are so goddamn non-pretty, that I have to look away from my screen to actually see beautiful women. It is supposed to be the other way around.

And it does not have to be full of super models. Have a few pretty ones, preferably with a couple of them being always around, and all problems are solved. Maybe I am just a jenious, and nobody else thought of that.

 

[CptMace]

male

female

brazilian shemale on the rio carnival

Know the difference, bigots.