Game News Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Announced and Live on Fig

[Fairfax]

I'll repeat my theory on how they could handle levels:

1) Let players start at level 1, but have the game's prologue level you up very rapidly to level 6 or so.
2) Chop imported characters' level in half (due to SOUL SUCKING), so a vanilla PoE player starts at level 6, and a White March player gets level 7 or 8. That will give you a reasonable mid-level to high level (20?) experience.

That would be a bad solution:

1. If you're going to give the player 5 levels so quickly, what's the point of starting at level 1?
2. Many players may enjoy the feedback loop of leveling up so quickly, but will feel frustrated later as it becomes significantly slower.
3. Players would be forced to make 5 level up decisions without being familiar with the game's systems. New players in particular will struggle with it.
4. In order to minimize any mistakes made in that prologue, players will want to respec. This will be very frustrating if the game doesn't have respec options.
5. If you're going to use "soul sucking" as a device, why not use it as a full reset? And how would the old companions have their souls "sucked" as well?
6. This could change, of course, but each level in PoE make too much of a difference in terms of stats. Even that 1-2 level difference between TWM players would be significant.

 

[Lurker King]

Are they seriously going to fight over the name "Deadfire"? This is something a 13 year old could come up with for his heavy metal band name.

So was "Wasteland", but try telling that to Fargo! Roxor was right. These people are "disproportionately proud of their work".

 

[Infinitron]

If you're going to give the player 5 levels so quickly, what's the point of starting at level 1?

Making character creation more accessible to newcomers, of course. I see that you're aware of that concern, and spacing out the level-ups across the prologue would still be preferable to doing it all at once.

I guess you could also give new players the option of a ready-made level 6 character instead.

If you're going to use "soul sucking" as a device, why not use it as a full reset? And how would the old companions have their souls "sucked" as well?

So that it's still a "high level adventure" sequel akin to BG2. And I guess your companions are with you when it happens.

This could change, of course, but each level in PoE make too much of a difference in terms of stats. Even that 1-2 level difference between TWM players would be significant.

Eh, I'm not so sure. It's subject to diminishing returns.

 

[Thonius]

I'm looking for Eothas. 300 foot, ambulatory, glowing purple adra statue. Maybe you've seen him?

He's green.

What shade of green? Olive green or seafoam green?

 

[Trash]

So, ship as base sounds like a given. Hope we'll get at least one 'being boarded by something' scenario. Other than that a pirate setting in a fantasy caribbean consisting of lots of islands and dead vulcanous in which you hunt the avatar of a god. Methinks that should allow for more than enough room for them to create something neat. I for one can't wait for the token cannibal tribe and the attempted sacrfice of a virgin to a vulcano.

Btow, funnily enough I remember a recent post here of someone being angry that the cool 'destroy the avatar of a god with lots of gunpowder' wasn't done by the player but as some background in POE. Perhaps they'll remedy that now.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm sure he could have done something like this too.

How can you be sure he would? He's written 2 plots to date, none being similar to that.

The thing about Avellone is - he can adapt to practically any plot you throw at him and find the good and unusual parts in it. Just look how he single-handedly elevated PoE's world and lore building with Durance.

Agreed. Still, I'd like to believe he'd come up with something better, considering they have full creative freedom and own the IP.

I was referring more to how a good writer/designer can make (almost) any idea good (or at least better) if they know what they are doing and understand their craft.

If you reduce the plot of practically any RPG masterpiece, you would likely get something that sounds silly until you've actually played it.

- Arcanum: your blimp crashed, and a dwarf cosplaying as a gnome gave you a ring.

- Fallout: a water purification chip in a nuclear shelter vault stopped working, so now you have to find another one.

- Fallout 2: Ooooh, this time it's a G.E.C.K.!

etc.

What I mean is - it's more how they handle the idea, the execution of it, that matters.

Except it's not silly. You need a reason for your character to stop doing what he was doing before and "get involved". Arcanum does it well - you were traveling but your airship was shot down and you're the only survivor. Your first goal is to make it a nearby town and the ring/dwarf gently push you toward the main quest, making you wonder what the attack was all about. It's fairly low key by the RPG standards. Fallout does it extremely well - the premise is simple and logical. The vault's running out of water and you play the role of a poor bastard who drew the short straw. You first goal is a nearby vault but you quickly discover that it was abandoned and ransacked. You aren't a chosen one; in one case you're a very lucky bastard, in another an unlucky one.

PoE1 has a fairly good, almost low-key setup: you seek shelter in some ruins, witness a ritual that kills your companions but not you because - they couldn't resist it, I guess - you're a chosen one. Now you need to get some answers about your condition that allows you to read crappy fan-fiction but doesn't seem to bother you otherwise. PoE2 setup does sound silly - a god wakes up in your basement, destroys your stronghold, curses you and leaves to play Godzilla with some pirates. You say "oh no you didn't" and go after him. Heroic Epic fantasy turned up to 11.

I would prefer to see another adventure set in the same world rather than continuing with the same character. Same setup, pirates, ships, new lands but a new level 1 character with new companions.

 

[Trash]

POE was epic high fantasy from the get go. Makes sense for the sequel to be more of the same. And you'll just know they'll strip your character of all of his powers when the God steps on him right at the start. It's not terribly fascinating but it fits the mould.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Back to level 1, the PC and his companions? I doubt it. I think they'll take MotB/BG2 route.

 

[Fairfax]

I'm sure he could have done something like this too.

How can you be sure he would? He's written 2 plots to date, none being similar to that.

The thing about Avellone is - he can adapt to practically any plot you throw at him and find the good and unusual parts in it. Just look how he single-handedly elevated PoE's world and lore building with Durance.

Agreed. Still, I'd like to believe he'd come up with something better, considering they have full creative freedom and own the IP.

Granted, PoE2 has the challenge of having to come up with an excuse for the PC losing all powers and loot, but their solution doesn't even go all the way. Getting fucked up and having your castle destroyed gets rid of your stuff, but it doesn't explain going back to level 1, so why bother? Not to mention the old companions, who will be back to square one as well.

where this was confirmed? I thought we qould continue fron level 12 to 16 depend on you play or not play the white march

I just assumed that would be the case,. If not, how are they going to balance the game around that? Level scaling? Everybody starts at level 12-16? Because I doubt they'll make 2 versions of every single encounter depending on whether you loaded an old save or not.

baldurs gate 2 starts you at level 7 just fine. New players start the same too.

Trails in the sky sc also start from level 35 ifcyou dont import or your character is below 35.

You dont have to start at level one. Make the level cap 30. You are fighting a god after all. No more playin around with xaurips i hope. I just hope the encounters are motb or throne of bhaal level and they goes away with those xaurips crap.

New players just can get points so they can build new,character accordingly

I'm not against that, mind you, but BG2 was a totally different beast:

• It was not designed to be particularly newcomer-friendly, which they've already said is a goal for PoE2.
• Classes could be a lot more specialized and had fewer useful attributes.
• They could expect a lot of players to be familiar with D&D systems without playing the first.
• D&D's stat growth makes the initial level less important. Sawyer prefers linear scaling, which gives a lot more weight to these first 6 levels.
• The game as a whole wasn't balanced at all, which I don't think is bad, but as we all know, it's not something Sawyer is particularly fond of.
• It allowed the player to create bad builds. Another Sawyerist crime.

Making character creation more accessible to newcomers, of course. I see that you're aware of that concern, and spacing out the level-ups across the prologue would still be preferable to doing it all at once.

I guess you could also give new players the option of a ready-made level 6 character instead.

If you want to make it more accessible to newcomers, forcing them to make these decisions in the dark is bad design. Forcing players to make these decisions during gameplay is more frustrating and wastes more of their time in case they're not happy with the result. It wouldn't be noob-friendly, but a level 6 PC right off the bat is more desirable than a turbo XP prologue.

PoE1 has a fairly good, almost low-key setup: you seek shelter in some ruins, witness a ritual that kills your companions but not you because - they couldn't resist it, I guess - you're a chosen one. Now you need to get some answers about your condition that allows you to read crappy fan-fiction but doesn't seem to bother you otherwise.

That's not silly, but it only applies to Act 1 and 2. After that your personal story turns into world-changing events and all the gods get involved.

 

[Trash]

I'm still waiting for a low key sandal sword and sorcery setting where you play as some proto Conan. Raiding neighbours for cattle, going to the big city and being amazed at the weak city dwellers and their treacherous ways, stealing a gem from a temple of a snake god. That kind of low key stuff. Unfortunately most devs seem to go straight for epic. Guess they think that sells better.

In other news, Guido Henkel has a history of appropriating ideas. Check out his little blog in which he details how the nemesis system from Shadow of Mordor is just a carbon copy of what he did before. Seems he's understandably quite butthurt about the whole debacle. It's a bit embaressing to read.

http://guidohenkel.com/category/deathfire/

Oh, and the funding goal is reached. That's quick.

 

[Sizzle]

In other news - FUNDING GOAL REACHED!

 

[an Administrator]

That was fast!

 

[acer palmatum]

Wow, I didn't doubt they would reach that goal - but after one day?

 

[Cosmo]

Making character creation more accessible to newcomers, of course. I see that you're aware of that concern, and spacing out the level-ups across the prologue would still be preferable to doing it all at once.

I guess you could also give new players the option of a ready-made level 6 character instead.

Not only is it a very good idea, but it"s also a simple and elegant one.
Makes you wonder why anything of the sort was never implemented in the first place...

 

[Infinitron]

Pending the next update:

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/156448088931/so-weve-got-obsidians-biggest-grognard-as-lead

So, we've got Obsidian's biggest grognard as Lead Designer now. Hard countery mage duels, are they happening?

Sort of, but not really. Something to keep in mind is that, while Bobby definitely is OEI’s biggest grognard, that means that, like me, he started playing A/D&D in the early 80s. In TTRPGs and CRPGs prior to BG2, spell counters were not as common. BG2 stands alone among A/D&D games in its heavy emphasis on them (arguably a few of the later Gold Box games, but even they weren’t as reliant on them).

What Dave Williams (our lead system designer) and I have done is expand the keyword system and introduced counters between keyword types. E.g., Water can counter Fire. Note that Boiling Spray, which does Burn damage, has the Water keyword, but it will still extinguish a persistent Fire effect. In our Fig trailer, you may notice a shot around the 2:40 mark where barrels of gunpowder next to Pallegina explode. Only a Fire effect will ignite them, causing them to explode within a few seconds, but a Water effect can counter that.

We have a reorganized Affliction system with a better set of counters to them and a redesigned Concentration/Interrupt mechanic that makes their use more deliberate and specific to combat circumstances.

All of this is to say that hard defenses and counters are, broadly speaking, more of a part of Deadfire, but those elements are spread across the classes, not concentrated among wizard spells.

 

[Sizzle]

Kits, nice!

 

[Invictus]

Can't understand the fixation with Carrie Patel and what her looks got to do with her skill for the project... plus for all the "yo she looks like a lesbo bro" wiseassery is weird, I bet most of you fine gentlemen would tap dat ass in a second if offered the opportunity

 

[Cosmo]

What Dave Williams (our lead system designer) and I have done is expand the keyword system and introduced counters between keyword types. E.g., Water can counter Fire. Note that Boiling Spray, which does Burn damage, has the Water keyword, but it will still extinguish a persistent Fire effect. In our Fig trailer, you may notice a shot around the 2:40 mark where barrels of gunpowder next to Pallegina explode. Only a Fire effect will ignite them, causing them to explode within a few seconds, but a Water effect can counter that.

So they actually took cues from D:OS.
Wonder how extensive will be those environmental interactions...

 

[HoboForEternity]

This is beginnin to enter "too good to be true"

Oh wait, the "too good to be true" news is if they add turn based toggle

 

[Irenaeus]

This is beginnin to enter "too good to be true"

Oh wait, the "too good to be true" news is if they add turn based toggle

Writing team seems beyond horrible at this point.

 

[Tigranes]

What Dave Williams (our lead system designer) and I have done is expand the keyword system and introduced counters between keyword types. E.g., Water can counter Fire. Note that Boiling Spray, which does Burn damage, has the Water keyword, but it will still extinguish a persistent Fire effect. In our Fig trailer, you may notice a shot around the 2:40 mark where barrels of gunpowder next to Pallegina explode. Only a Fire effect will ignite them, causing them to explode within a few seconds, but a Water effect can counter that.

So they actually took cues from D:OS.
Wonder how extensive will be those environmental interactions...

Or Dragon Age: Origins, if you like. Since it was one of the best things about combat in those two games, I'd be happy for every game to take those cues to any degree.

Can't see how it's a bad thing to have more exploding barrels.

 

[Lurker King]

So they are finally copying D:OS because they want to sell millions.
Wonder how extensive will be those environmental interactions...

Fixed. And cargo cult achievement unlocked. I predict that by 2030, every medium studio will release cRPGs with MMO graphics, co-op and cheap environmental interactions. By 2040 there will be no difference between "medium" cRPGs and other MMOs.

 

[Invictus]

Oh god if Guido almost had a cow because of "deadfire" he is going want to go medieval on Sawyers A-S-S for the "water counter fire" stuff in the update

 

[Sizzle]

So anybody know what the projections for this are, how much do you think they can get for this campaign?

Matching PoE1 Kickstarter funding seems unlikely, but what's a realistic outcome - between two and three mil?

 

[Infinitron]

So anybody know what the projections for this are, how much do you think they can get for this campaign?

Matching PoE1 Kickstarter funding seems unlikely, but what's a realistic outcome - between two and three mil?

My first thought would be - more than this: https://www.fig.co/campaigns/wasteland-3