Development Info Pillars of Eternity Retrospective Panel at PAX Prime 2015

[Roguey]

Damn it. These guys were successful with PoE because people wanted more classic RPGs, NOT FUCKING TABLET GAMES.

Josh has been pitching a lower-budget-than-PoE turn-based Darklands-clone to Feargus for quite some time now.

Because that's the only way it's going to make a profit.

 

[Delterius]

I wouldn't say "lots" compared to post-3E systems, but sure.

Clerics are the ones who don't fit the mold; in the Itemization RPG, it might be interesting to make clerics have to work harder to get their spells. Like, you have do stuff in the world and actually please your god to get spells. Which reminds me of the NWN2 module felipe posted about on Gamasutra recently.

That would be pretty cool to see, though I'd say that the archetype which needs content most if the Thief. Its the one sort of play that rarely appears in these games and the way things are going, its disappearing entirely.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

I man I wished that pathfinder rpg was not mobile crap. Still curious to see what Obsidian does in the future.

 

[Excidium II]

That would be pretty cool to see, though I'd say that the archetype which needs content most if the Thief. Its the one sort of play that rarely appears in these games and the way things are going, its disappearing entirely.

Making thieves shine would require better, more open-ended design. Otherwise they'll forever be the guy you take because you need someone who can disarm traps and pick locks.

 

[ArchAngel]

Ah yes, I didn't mention that during the panel Josh talks about the problems of managing expectations when developing a game inspired by several editions of D&D, with different parts of the fanbase obsessing over different editions. He mentions AD&D's "quadratic wizards" in particular as a trait that some fans expected from such a game.

Always fun to see just how aware Josh is of the things people are saying about the game. In this case, though, I think you're out of luck.

I would settle with wizard not being as powerful as in IE games if powerful spells and abilities were back in the game and spread more. But what we have in PoE is 30 different versions of -20 to some stat which is just terrible design. Wizards don't need to get all Sleep, Horror, Web, Evard Black Tentacle or all Cloudkill spells, but such spells need to be the norm, not what we get now. I get it that those spells are hard to implement, but imagine how cool it would be if PoE had Walls of Force or Wall of Thorns and Dimension Doors and both you and NPC would use them in combinations with other spells to make combat interesting (as well as counter spells to stop that).
But it seems it is easier to make 30 different versions of -20 to different stat or resistance.... so while their design ideas are like that, we are going to bash them as they deserve.

 

[Delterius]

Making thieves shine would require better, more open-ended design. Otherwise they'll forever be the guy you take because you need someone who can disarm traps and pick locks.

Well, that is part of the game. Dungeon delving requires lots of support and disarming traps or picking locks is as important as, say, healing. Someone has to do it and since this is an RPG we better make this a big character trait. If people aren't satisfied with said supporting thief archetype, the IE games already offered tons of items and multiclass options to empower their characters. The archetype wasn't a straight jacket at all, its only a matter of how much the player and the game are willing to work with it.

And on that note I agree, more open ended design would go a long way to make the thief archetype shine. But even every day dungeon delving could benefit if, say, infiltration was a thing: on top of picking locks, scouting, and disarming traps, a thief can always be useful in taking out patrolling enemies and ensuring that you'll only have to fight smaller groups at a time.

 

[Roguey]

I liked the panel, but as expected, they didn't really acknowledge any major flaws in the game besides the absurd loading times and the lack of stronghold content. I guess it'll take years before Sawyer disowns some of PoE's design.
Also, I thought it was a dick move to ignore the Durance/Grieving Mother stuff that was cut and then say most of the cut content they didn't mention was just bad (yeah, he said "most", not all, but they still ignored it). According to MCA, that was 3/4 of what he made for the game and he worked on them "16/7", so that was pretty disrespectful, and I don't believe for a second they just forgot about it.

 

[Shammy]

Well, that is part of the game. Dungeon delving requires lots of support and disarming traps or picking locks is as important as, say, healing. Someone has to do it and since this is an RPG we better make this a big character trait. If people aren't satisfied with said supporting thief archetype, the IE games already offered tons of items and multiclass options to empower their characters. The archetype wasn't a straight jacket at all, its only a matter of how much the player and the game are willing to work with it.

And on that note I agree, more open ended design would go a long way to make the thief archetype shine. But even every day dungeon delving could benefit if, say, infiltration was a thing: on top of picking locks, scouting, and disarming traps, a thief can always be useful in taking out patrolling enemies and ensuring that you'll only have to fight smaller groups at a time.

I think it'd be neat if a dungeon was incorporated with a densely populated city, to give said Thief PC the ability to actually do some thievery: stealing items to help progress through the dungeon, collecting information just by blending into crowds, or maybe macgyver'ing items together to form an alternate solution to something. The difficult part is to give the Thief a unique enough toolset to where they can do more than just what you described, as right now when I think of a Thief I think of "guy who stelaths, backstabs, picks locks, disarms stuff, and dies in two hits".

 

[Fairfax]

Interesting that he even replied, though I would've said something different if I had a twitter. Anyway, it's easy to say that in hindsight, and I doubt he'll ever address MCA's cut content specifically and why they decided to cut it. I'd have to watch it again, but I remember quite clearly that he was trying to think of other cut content to talk about and said something like "most of the other cut content we just thought "eh, it's bad".

Then again, like I said:

(yeah, he said "most", not all, but they still ignored it)

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

I would assume that it was ultimately Eric Fenstermaker's, not Josh's, call to cut MCA's stuff.

 

[Bubbles]

You should've given me that question for the Gamescom interview. I would've asked.

 

[Roguey]

I would've said something different if I had a twitter

If you say so, locked account.

 

[Zeronet]

Paradox wanted the pre-order items, Adam didn't but Fergus made them eh, end result space pig.

 

[Excidium II]

Paradox wanted the pre-order items, Adam didn't but Fergus made them eh, end result space pig.

What happened to the whole "no publisher influence" thing~

Wait, that's Fargo's shtick.

 

[Roguey]

What happened to the whole "no publisher influence" thing~

Wait, that's Fargo schtick.

Paradox made a suggestion, the CEO agreed with it.

It's a really negligible thing overall.

 

[Excidium II]

Doesn't the pig give +5 accuracy?

 

[Infinitron]

Nah, pets are 100% cosmetic. There was also the Gaun's Pledge ring though.

 

[Fairfax]

I would assume that it was ultimately Eric Fenstermaker's, not Josh's, call to cut MCA's stuff.

Fenstermaker was lead narrative designer, this had more than just story and dialog to it, MCA mentioned a mental dungeon. Also, the decision to cut 3/4 of the content for two companions would need Sawyer's approval, he was project lead, after all.

You should've given me that question for the Gamescom interview. I would've asked.

That would've been interesting, but I doubt he would've answered.

Nah, pets are 100% cosmetic. There was also the Gaun's Pledge ring though.

Yup, a ring with self healing right off the bat or free 1500g or something (even more at launch, 3k IIRC). It's a pre-order bonus with an in-game advantage, no way around it.

What happened to the whole "no publisher influence" thing~

Wait, that's Fargo's shtick.

Fargo is full of it. I don't understand why so many CRPG fans praise him. He's only sticking to PC because he sees the opportunity there at this moment, that could change at any minute. Some people forget he wanted to move everything from Interplay to consoles.

 

[Excidium II]

Nah, pets are 100% cosmetic. There was also the Gaun's Pledge ring though.

Yeah not sure where I got that +5 acc bonus from.

 

[Bubbles]

Nah, pets are 100% cosmetic.

That's not entirely correct. For the first few weeks there was a bug where equipping a pet gave you +5 accuracy under certain circumstances.

edit: It also stacked permanently! https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75876-bug-black-and-white-cat-accuracy-increase/

 

[Sceptic]

What happened to the whole "no publisher influence" thing~

Take the grognards' money, then take the publisher's money, let the publisher influence your design so it's casual-friendly, then take the casuals' money and get rave reviews.

When you think about it the KS business model is nothing short of brilliant.

 

[Fairfax]

Take the grognards' money, then take the publisher's money, let the publisher influence your design so it's casual-friendly, then take the casuals' money and get rave reviews.

When you think about it the KS business model is nothing short of brilliant.

Can't brofist, so: :mrpresident:

 

[Shammy]

What happened to the whole "no publisher influence" thing~

Wait, that's Fargo's shtick.

Considering how important the publisher and developer relationship is for smaller companies, it'd be pretty weird if there was absolutely zero influence from the publisher. Like they gotta stick their heads in the offices and see if they're breathing, right?

And it was a pretty small thing too anyway as pointed out by Roguey, and the pre-order bonuses were, while providing decent advantage in the early game, can of course be ignored completely.

 

[Excidium II]

Considering how important the publisher and developer relationship is for smaller companies, it'd be pretty weird if there was absolutely zero influence from the publisher. Like they gotta stick their heads in the offices and see if they're breathing, right?

And it was a pretty small thing too anyway as pointed out by Roguey, and the pre-order bonuses were, while providing decent advantage in the early game, can of course be ignored completely.

Location: California

 

[Fry]

Location: California

I'm sure you think this is significant for some reason.