Pools of Darkness - race lvl limits wtf?

[octavius]

Anyone know if Rings of Invisibilty has any use in Pools of Darkness? From the Encamp menu it says my characters with Rings of Invisibilty are invisible. Invisibility is supposed to mean you can't be targeted by ranged attacks. Or is that Improved Invisibility only?
Also, in other GB games (don't remember which one(s)) I remember being able to disengage from melee with invisible characters without provoking an opportunity attack, but unless Fire Giants can see invisible that doesn't work in Pools of Darkness.
If so it seems these rings are pretty useless.

These different rules from game to game is rather annoying. In some GB games Clerics can use Gauntlets of Ogre Power, in Pools they can't. Same with various wands.

 

[octavius]

Seems like wands I aquired in Secret of the Silver Blades have different restriction from those I find in Pools of Darkness. A Wand of Ice Storm found in SotSS can only be used by mages, while a WoIS found in Pools can be used by anyone, for example.

And the Ring of Electrical Immunity doesn't seem to work as named. The character wearing it has so far taken half damage from Blue Dragons breathing on him.

I'm currently in Dragon's Aerie and this is definitely the most difficult area in the whole Pools series so far. Before this area I thought the game was too easy, but now I keep running into random encounters of up to 5 Green Dragons with 72 HP each. Bad luck with initiative means half the party dead (fortunately I have lots of Resurrect scrolls) or even having to use Power Word - Reload.
The fixed encounters in this game are challenging and varied, but throwing whole flights of dragons at you as random encounters is a bit too much.
No wonder 99% of all players max out all stats and HP when facing such odds...or even worse, blatantly cheat by making enemies spend their actions on opportunity attacks instead of breathing or casting spells.

EDIT: Heh, the "boss fight" in the Dragon's Arie against two Dracoliches and one Dark Mage (not the nasty kind of Dark Queen of Krynn) was rather anticlimactic after fighting an the entire Draconian Luftwaffe of the Forgotten Realms.

DOS version has unbearable controls btw, had to reroll on Amiga - the way it's meant to be played.

The Amiga version has too big advantages:

1. You can Load from the Encamp menu.
2. You can Join scrolls. Inventory space is very precious in the game.

Made, are you still playing this game?

 

[Jarpie]

I've just started playing Gateway to the Savage Frontier and Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday, and having loads of fun. For some reason, I find UI surprisingly pleasant, it does have some unpoishment, such as have to unready previous weapon before readying new one and such - use the key shortcuts instead of choosing with arrow keys + enter.

 

[made]

Made, are you still playing this game?

Nah, I got my fix. Grew tired of grinding endless ettins and giants and started up Fire Emblem RD instead. But now LoG is out so I had to put that on hold as well.

 

[octavius]

I've just started playing Gateway to the Savage Frontier and Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday, and having loads of fun. For some reason, I find UI surprisingly pleasant, it does have some unpoishment, such as have to unready previous weapon before readying new one and such - use the key shortcuts instead of choosing with arrow keys + enter.

Paper dolls, like in the Eye of the Beholder games, would have been nice.
But for me the only real annoyance is that in many of the GB games (but not all) if you accidentally hit the E key, you End your character's turn. Something that easily happens since the E key is also the Escape key.

Made, are you still playing this game?

Nah, I got my fix. Grew tired of grinding endless ettins and giants

I know what you mean. It was what made me get burnt out on my Pool series playthrough over a year ago, and take a break after completing the Hill Giants Steading. Fortunately the GB games have quite basic stories so it wasn't a problem picking up the game again after a long break.
But it is quite satisfactory to see your Ranger doing up to 50 damage to a Giant in one swing. :D


After the very hard Dragons Aerie, Thorn's Cave was quite a bit easier, and Zhentil Keep (so far) even easier. There were some extremely large (about 40 Zhentil Warriors) groups of guards in the city. In the moat around the Keep itself Manshoon had placed more Giants and Ettins.

The enemy AI was significantly improved in this game. Now enemies are able to move into range and then cast spells. Targetting is also more intelligent, they usually avoid fighters on Guard and they don't blindly walk into Stinking Clouds.
I have to replay Dark Queen of Krynn before passing final judgement, but thanks to the improved AI this is probably the best of the Gold Box games, although I remember liking DQK most.

 

[Themadcow]

In the days before internet FAQ's were commonplace I never figured out how to get past the Moander part. Despite that, the sheer amount of content and brilliant combat made this - by far - my favourite GB game.

I'm torn between replaying this or a first run through of ToEE.

 

[kmonster]

I did a playthrough of the Pool games 1.5 year ago, but got burnt out part way through Pools of Darkness. I'll resume that game soon and then I'll see how difficult that end game really was. I don't remember much of it, but I do remember being disappointed that I didn't get to play Dave's Challenge since I wasn't able to solve a stupid riddle...

So what does the party you're playing now consist of (class, level, hitpoints at the start) ?

 

[Alex]

Like I was arguing in another thread, I think racial level limitations make sense if you have a stable of characters you can choose from in different adventures and who replace dead PCs (rather than being able to create a new PCat the same level of your last one). Of course, such a feature is completely missing from the computer games.

 

[octavius]

I did a playthrough of the Pool games 1.5 year ago, but got burnt out part way through Pools of Darkness. I'll resume that game soon and then I'll see how difficult that end game really was. I don't remember much of it, but I do remember being disappointed that I didn't get to play Dave's Challenge since I wasn't able to solve a stupid riddle...

So what does the party you're playing now consist of (class, level, hitpoints at the start) ?

At the end of Secret/start of Pools:
Human Paladin: Lvl 15, 79 HP
Human Ranger: Lvl 15, 112 HP
Human Mage: Lvl 15, 52 HP
Human Cleric: Lvl 15, 58 HP
Human Ranger dualed to Mage: Lvl 15/11, 94 HP
Dwarf Fighter/Thief: Lvl 9/16, 48 HP

You'll never see stats like these on a YouTube Let's Play.
Well, unless I decide to video the final battles in the game, that is.

 

[Joonas]

Replayed the 3 Gothemenes battles with a heavily buffed party and this time it was quite easy. Only blue minions and their lightning breath was annoying. I still had easier time with fights in Dark Queen than in PoD.

As Octavius said, the electrical immunity ring and some other items don't seem to work as they should.

The limited number of inventory slots really annoyed me in these games. In MS-DOS versions you can't even join scrolls.

 

[octavius]

My Mage has a surprisingly good THAC0 in this game. Hasted and armed with Darts+4 he was able to finish off 6 Drows that barely survived a Fireball from my Ranger/Mage, in one round. :D
It seems the Drows' magic resistance doesn't work nearly as well against spells from high level mages, while Fireballs and Lighting Bolts from wands don't affect them.

Seems that in addition to some bugged items, the Druid version of the Resist Fire spell is bugged too, as in the effect is permanent. o_O

 

[Alex]

I remember that level influences MR in 1st edition, though I don't recall exactly how.

 

[octavius]

In the days before internet FAQ's were commonplace I never figured out how to get past the Moander part. Despite that, the sheer amount of content and brilliant combat made this - by far - my favourite GB game.

I remember the Moander part being my least favourite part of the game. Partly because it was so hard figuring out what you were supposed to do (something about a heart and lots of words I needed a dictionary for), but also because the area was so big and there were too many random encounter with Bits of Moander that took forever to kill.

I remember that level influences MR in 1st edition, though I don't recall exactly how.

Now that you mention it, that sounds correct. I don't think it's mentioned anywhere in the Gold Box rule books, though.

 

[laclongquan]

^^ Because they are retarded?

No seriously, by the system mechanics they are, learning at roughly a fifth the rate, taking 110 years to learn "adulthood", plus 30 years to complete the wizard training that takes humans 6.

Too bad no fantasy writer would ever have the balls to state this.

None of them would dare. Their retarded fans will lynch them and boycott their books.

EDIT: for example, Elron's council is a FAILED experiment on multikult. They spend 3 quarters of the time squabbling over the loot, with the elf being an ineffectual council chairman.

 

[kmonster]

I remember the Moander part being my least favourite part of the game. Partly because it was so hard figuring out what you were supposed to do (something about a heart and lots of words I needed a dictionary for), but also because the area was so big and there were too many random encounter with Bits of Moander that took forever to kill.

Casting hold monster at them will speed things up.

 

[octavius]

Pools of Darkness is less hardcore than Dark Queen of Krynn. In the latter your character is GONE if eradicated, in Pools he can be Resurrected, but all his items are gone.

I'm currently in Kalistes' realm, and it seems I did things in an incorrect order, since when in the Testing Grounds the game kept referring to some NPCs as if I was supposed to know them.
The overland maps, including the various other dimensional realms suffer from too many random encounters, but at least many of them can be avoided even without using the Flee option.

 

[octavius]

Just beat Kalistes after the hardest scripted encounter in the game yet. Globe of Invulnerability on my mages saved the day, as it meant they didn't take damage from the Drow Wizards' Ice Storm spells, and were able to unleash hell (cast Delayed Blast Fireball).

But when I got back the portal the dwarf NPC Storm complained "What about my sister? We must rescue her!". But we already did that, you ugly little midget.
Is this a bug, or did I overlook something? I loaded up the save from right after defeating Kalistes and visited the slave quarters and the kitchen, but all the slaves had fled.
Is Storm supposed to stay with the party, or will he always leave at the portal? I couldn't find any info on this in the clue book or various walkthroughs.

EDIT: Storm was disintegrated once. Before he died I had control of him in battle, but after reviving him he was under computer control until I hit the space key. Maybe him dieing messed things up?

 

[Joonas]

I had exactly the same problem with Storm and didn't resurrect him or anything that would mess things. Probably a bug.

Another bug (mild plot spoiler):
At some point after Moander's realm, Sasha is kidnapped by Cadorna / Gothmenes. But if you visit Taydome's keep, she's still there.

 

[octavius]

Marcus' Tower was rather easier than Zhentil Keep and the Drow caves underneath. I was able to complete the whole tower without resting once and I still had most of my Delayed Blast Fireballs left.
If I ever replay this game again I think I'll do Marcus' Tower before exploring more than the public part of Zhentil Keep.

 

[octavius]

I remember the Moander part being my least favourite part of the game. Partly because it was so hard figuring out what you were supposed to do (something about a heart and lots of words I needed a dictionary for), but also because the area was so big and there were too many random encounter with Bits of Moander that took forever to kill.

Casting hold monster at them will speed things up.

After unequipping my Rings of Wizardry I had no Hold Monster spells left, but I noticed that Cone of Cold is also very effective and reliable. Once I figured out its AOE it has become one of my favourite spells.

 

[octavius]

Now I remember why I hated Moander's Heart: endless random encounters with fucking armies of golems and Bits of Moander. There's something sick and twisted about a game where an average random encounter is harder than boss fights...

Ah, the fun of first meeting 10 large Bits of Moander and 10 large Golems. And then you take 10 steps and meet the same (?) 10 large Bits of Moander and 10 large Golems you killed 10 minutes ago.

This could have been the best of all the Gold Box games, but the excessive amount of random enounters with armies of enemies combined with having to go back and forth all over the same area has really soured my enthusiasm for this game.

EDIT:
Heh, the boss fight was pathetic. Talenal only had 54 HP, so he went down in 3 swings. The rest was just one Cultist and four large Bits of Moander. Far easier than a typical random encounter with a combination of 5 Cultists, 10 Bits and 10 Golems.

 

[octavius]

I was surprised by the lack of beholders in Mulmaster. Looks like the Mulmaster Beholder Corps really did get wiped out in Curse of the Azure Bonds.
And it looks like the party could have worked for Arcam, the chief beholder in Mulmaster, and get quests to wipe out his competitors. But with no boats and Mulmaster being the place furthest away from Phlan I can't imagine many players having done this.

 

[Sceptic]

And it looks like the party could have worked for Arcam, the chief beholder in Mulmaster, and get quests to wipe out his competitors. But with no boats and Mulmaster being the place furthest away from Phlan I can't imagine many players having done this.

Cool, I didn't know this was possible. I always do Mulmaster last, as I just go in order. Will need to keep this in mind for a replay.

 

[octavius]

Fuck those last three battles are hard!
First battle went OK, second against the beholders were easy, but they cast Slow and "cured" my Haste spell. And with no Hastle spells left, and not being able to cast spells in the final battle it was game over.
I think you need some luck in these battles.

For some reason my hazy memory of completing the game back in the Amiga days is of the final battle taking place outside the Town Hall in New Phlan. And I don't remember it being this difficult.

"Fun" facts:
1. Contrary to manual my Cleric was not able to cast Dispel Evil on another character, only on himself. Too bad, since a hasted fighter with Dispel Evil cast on him could have dispelled four of those highly annoying blue Minions of Bane per round.

2. According to the manual the Minions of Bane are immune to Poison. But my own Minions (thanks to Monster Summoning) died from the poisonous bites of the Pets of Kalistes.

3. Power Word - Stun is a neat spell, far more so than Blind and Kill. But it's easy to forget that stunned creature still can make opportunity attacks.

4. Stone to Flesh can be cast on the battlefield, but you can't target a petrified character. You can however target a live character. o_O EDIT: this might have been a fluke, though. I had unexpected problems targeting the Heal spell too.

 

[octavius]

Heh, I had to resort to turning down the difficulty before the final battles in order to complete the game.

I guess I should have prepared more and brought over items that I (but not my characters) know will survive going through Limbo, like the Scrolls of Prot Dragon Breath. The only magic items I brought along was the Vorpal Sword and Rings of Cold and Fire Protection.
Unfortunately I lost the Ring of Electrical Immunity when one of my guys was Disintegrated by Arcam's envoy. Not that it grants immunity in the DOS version, though. But I have some vague memories of it working correctly in the Amiga version, and that my tactic revolved around my best fighter being immune to lightning. OTOH I think I only had one mage when I played the Amiga version, and you pretty much need to get off two Delayed Blast Fireballs in the first round to get rid of as many Minions of Bane as possible ASAP.

Oh well, I'll probably try again tomorrow with a better equipped and better prepared party, and finish it on normal difficulty.

During my playthrough of the Pool series, it is only in this final battle that not using maxed out characters have been a real problem, since 16-17 Dex does not guarantee acting before all the lighting spewing Minions of Bane.