Popular weapons *PWN* better ones in RPGs

[shihonage]

katana being much better than an European broadsword in all respects

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

If I was stuck in a zombie apocalypse and had to choose a blunt weapon, I'd find an abandoned dojo to loot, and stock up on katanas.

 

[Alfons]

This entire topic is asinine.Weapons in real life are not balanced,that is probably the main reason every era has a few weapons and a fuck ton of variations.The differences between one assault rifle and another assault rifle are not that significant,same for swords, knives, pistols etc. It's hard to juggle weapon balance and weapon progression,that's why most games fuck it up.If you want realism in there as well then you are fucked because you aren't getting balance or progression.

 

[Saduj]

FN FAL > M16 in Fallout Tactics

At least that. AK47 was a quite respectable gun in FOT, pretty much THE standby gun of the middle-game, excellent for fighting Beastlords and Deathclaws* until Super Mutants started showing up with their murderous big guns and their high HP and DR/DT.

FOT was also a bit bizarre because sniping was fail there. Sniper rifles and called shots sucked, the way to victory was to fire as many shots as you could - totally different from original games, where called shots were king.

I thought the sniper rifle in Fallout Tactics was pretty good against anything but robots (by late game only gauss rifle is a viable primary weapon using small gun skill). Not that I used it for aimed shots. I like taking guys with Fast Shot or even using the Mutate perk to give recruits Fast Shot. To me it was more like an infantry rifle that was a big upgrade over M1 Garand. Been a while since I played the main campaign but I kind of remember there being a point where Super Mutants had M2s and the characters who weren't carrying an M2 or a sniper rifle were useless against them.

Agreed with everything you said about FO2. During first play through it was a huge disappointment to gain access to new guns only to find out that many times they were garbage.

 

[Johannes]

katana being much better than an European broadsword in all respects

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

If I was stuck in a zombie apocalypse and had to choose a blunt weapon, I'd find an abandoned dojo to loot, and stock up on katanas.

Sure, it's a good enough weapon. But not really any better than a comparable sword (blade length, hilt length) of other cultures. Katana is not something unique, it's basically a two-handed, short saber if you'd put it to western terms.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I wonder where the heavy sword worship came from anyway. Myths and hero stories have an equal representation of magical swords as they do bows, spears, hammers etc., yet RPG devs mostly lust after swords.

 

[Saduj]

Only Small Gun worth in FOT endgame is the Pancor Jackhammer with Slug/EMP rounds because automatic shotguns are imba as fuck in FOT, but EMP rounds are limited."

You're right that was the best small gun for end game. I completely forgot about it. I kept Stitch through the whole game and Pancor + EMP rounds was his end game weapon. Everyone else had energy weapons/big guns. I carried a couple of gauss rifles for their range. They were OK but lack of ammo was a real problem.

 

[Alfons]

I wonder where the heavy sword worship came from anyway. Myths and hero stories have an equal representation of magical swords as they do bows, spears, hammers etc., yet RPG devs mostly lust after swords.

They probably got it from the film industry,where they got it from I don't know.

 

[Sodafish]

katana being much better than an European broadsword in all respects

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

If I was stuck in a zombie apocalypse and had to choose a blunt weapon, I'd find an abandoned dojo to loot, and stock up on katanas.

Sure, it's a good enough weapon. But not really any better than a comparable sword (blade length, hilt length) of other cultures. Katana is not something unique, it's basically a two-handed, short saber if you'd put it to western terms.

Yeah, the katana had been mythologised to a ludicrous extent. It's a sword optimised for slashing, but it's hardly unique in that respect. The Talwar is also such a weapon.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

You just defined a sword.

 

[Johannes]

katana being much better than an European broadsword in all respects

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

If I was stuck in a zombie apocalypse and had to choose a blunt weapon, I'd find an abandoned dojo to loot, and stock up on katanas.

Sure, it's a good enough weapon. But not really any better than a comparable sword (blade length, hilt length) of other cultures. Katana is not something unique, it's basically a two-handed, short saber if you'd put it to western terms.

Yeah, the katana had been mythologised to a ludicrous extent. It's a sword optimised for slashing, but it's hardly unique in that respect. The Talwar is also such a weapon.

Well, it's still pretty different from talwar / scimitar / saber / shamshir / kilij / dao / whatever the fuck 1-handed curved swords. It's much closer to a european longsword in use actually, of course there's differences between the two (longswords tend to be longer, have a bigger crossguard, have 2 edges, and aren't curved), but are you really gonna model all that into game rules? Same techniques are still mostly effective for both.

But looking at it from a game rules perspective? You don't necessarily need to make separate rules between a generic katana and a generic longsword, if you don't have a ridiculously detailed combat system. A sword's a sword, be it of nippon or anglo or potato origin.

 

[shihonage]

katana being much better than an European broadsword in all respects

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

If I was stuck in a zombie apocalypse and had to choose a blunt weapon, I'd find an abandoned dojo to loot, and stock up on katanas.

Sure, it's a good enough weapon. But not really any better than a comparable sword (blade length, hilt length) of other cultures. Katana is not something unique, it's basically a two-handed, short saber if you'd put it to western terms.

Yeah, the katana had been mythologised to a ludicrous extent. It's a sword optimised for slashing, but it's hardly unique in that respect. The Talwar is also such a weapon.

Who said anything about myths? Its meticulous forging process is well-documented, and it's a marvel of optimization. Its got differently-tempered metal at the front for extreme hardness, and the body is softer to allow flexibility. This flexibility serves not just to cut through humans, but to slide off incoming enemy swords, as well as bounce them off if necessary. There are whole arts based around katana and its specific properties.

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

You just defined a sword.

You just defined ignorance.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

katana being much better than an European broadsword in all respects

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

If I was stuck in a zombie apocalypse and had to choose a blunt weapon, I'd find an abandoned dojo to loot, and stock up on katanas.

Sure, it's a good enough weapon. But not really any better than a comparable sword (blade length, hilt length) of other cultures. Katana is not something unique, it's basically a two-handed, short saber if you'd put it to western terms.

Yeah, the katana had been mythologised to a ludicrous extent. It's a sword optimised for slashing, but it's hardly unique in that respect. The Talwar is also such a weapon.

Who said anything about myths? Its meticulous forging process is well-documented, and it's a marvel of optimization.

Katana is hard enough, but also flexible - it reverberates so it doesn't get stuck when going through human body. It's long enough but not exceedingly so. It has weight, but is not heavy enough to lose effectiveness if you lose muscle mass. It allows powerful cutting without losing balance or creating large openings for counterattack.

You just defined a sword.

You just defined ignorance.

Your ignorance of western swords.

 

[shihonage]

Awor Szurkrarz Stop being so disappointing. I still believe in you.

 

[Johannes]

Who said anything about myths? Its meticulous forging process is well-documented, and it's a marvel of optimization.

Sure it is, but so what? That part of its blade is made of softer metal, doesn't make it a superior weapon to a western sword.

 

[shihonage]

Who said anything about myths? Its meticulous forging process is well-documented, and it's a marvel of optimization.

Sure it is, but so what?That part of its blade is made of softer metal, doesn't make it a superior weapon to a western sword.

A sniper rifle isn't superior to a baseball bat if all you're trained to do is bash someone on the head with it.

 

[Johannes]

P. fitting analogy for sure

 

[Raghar]

Fallout had (before Bethesda got it) a "no swords" clause.

I remember death claws were killable by a combat knife. And I remember on that chainsaw blade.

 

[shihonage]

Fallout had (before Bethesda got it) a "no swords" clause.

I remember death claws were killable by a combat knife. And I remember on that chainsaw blade.

Fallout had "no magic, fairies and other crap" clause, not a specific "no sword" clause.

P. fitting analogy for sure

An analogy that won't make sense until you study how to use a katana and stop thinking of sword fights as two metal sticks clashing with one another repeatedly.

 

[Raghar]

A sniper rifle isn't superior to a baseball bat if all you're trained to do is bash someone on the head with it.

That's quite poor club.

 

[Lilura]

Fallout had (before Bethesda got it) a "no swords" clause.

I remember death claws were killable by a combat knife. And I remember on that chainsaw blade.

Fallout 2 had wakizashis. Planescape: Torment was known for eschewing swords, Dak'kon wielded one but TNO couldn't use it.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I think FO just avoided long blades because it doesn't fit the "post apocalyptic wasteland" style, not because of a deliberate design "no swords" choice.

The wakisazhis in FO2 belonged to yakuza wannabes. IIRC they're kind of shit compared to other melee weapons

 

[Johannes]

P. fitting analogy for sure

An analogy that won't make sense until you study how to use a katana and stop thinking of sword fights as two metal sticks clashing with one another repeatedly.

Roger that sensei. Now could you please enlighten us plebs on how katana is so fundamentally different from every other sword ever

 

[Lilura]

Vanilla JA2 the FN FAL definitely was the best weapon if you use it as a battle rifle (which you should)

FN-FAL is top-tier in JA2, definitely above Steyr Aug (Tons of Guns mode). But Steyr Aug uses 5.56mm ammo, which is confetti loot compared to 7.62mm. And has slightly superior range and larger mag.

JA2 veterans know the H&K G-11 outstrips both those, however. The problem is that it generally pops up late game, location is random, and ammo supply is rare.

For me and for my playstyle and various tests I've done, H&K G-11 is the most powerful, penetrating weapon in the unmodded game.

"Best" depends on playstyle, an ambidex pistoleer with two P90s is gonna shred a map to ribbons, played by someone who knows.

 

[Direwolf]

All my teams in JA2 pretty much had full FN-FAL + whatever was the sniper rifle of choice at the time for the snipers.

 

[Lilura]

Dragunov was my fave sniper rifle in JA2, nothing like headshots that do -100 health, -50 wisdom from loooooong range lol.