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Post-Apocalyptic JRPGs and Renewed Enthusiasm

unseeingeye

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I tried searching the forum and didn't find a similarly titled thread, but if one already exists then I apologize. I detailed a lengthy background first as is my usual insufferable habit, so if you want to just skip to where I come to the title subject it begins with the third to last paragraph.



For most of my adult life I've been focused primarily on Western RPGs and computers, having missed so many of them while growing up due to the prohibitive cost of computers. Games that were only ever released on computers like the Amiga or Atari ST, which formerly only existed for me as big boxes on store shelves, the occasional opportunity to see them being played at friends houses, or within the frames of small screenshots inside magazines that I would spend hours looking at and studying every detail, imagining that I was actually playing them. Today they are easily accessible to a point of triviality, but thirty and more years ago each one was a priceless artifact. My family did eventually get a PC but it was a gift from a neighbor who was replacing his and couldn't play any of the games that were new at that time, and then as a teenager we finally got one that could play brand new games and this coincided with the release of enduring classics like Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape Torment &c. Most of them were copied for me by my cousin, but I still remember buying Arcanum brand new at the store, having no idea what it was.

So consequently I mostly grew up on arcade and console games, and even of these latter I wouldn't own any until I was 12 years old, up to which point I would religiously watch my friends play on their Nintendo and Super Nintendo (my first console) or Sega systems. Mostly it was fighting games or the popular platformers, but occasionally somebody would have games that I found far more interesting, like Sim City or A Link to the Past. When I eventually became aware of RPGs as a genre, they totally consumed my life as I'm sure is the case for most people here, and this also happened around the same time that I became aware of anime through shows like Sailor Moon. Most of the games I played from then on were JRPGs and I was absolutely blown away by them, games like Chrono Trigger, Secret of Mana, Earthbound, Final Fantasy etc. Later on as a teenager I got a PlayStation and spent entire summers and every free moment that I wasn't outside playing games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Suikoden, Lunar Silver Star Story etc. There were some handhelds in between and I only recently realized that I actually played Wizardry V on the Super Nintendo when I was about 8 years old, while for Game Boy and the later versions of it I was hooked on what was released in North America as the Final Fantasy Legend series, and I also didn't realize until very much later that a game I was crazy about called Revelations: Demon Slayer was actually a Last Bible game.

All this to give some background on where I'm coming from and to say that in recent weeks I've noticed that my interest in JRPs has suddenly returned. Having grown up on so many incredible games, at some point I just lost my passion for them (anime as well), they all started to blur together in my mind and feel like generally the same exact game with different skins, and I stopped playing them many years ago. There were only a few exceptions; Tactics Ogre, Persona 3, the first Disgaea and Valkyrie Profile for PSP absorbed much of my time shortly after my daughter was born, but in general I'd moved away from these sorts of games and anime as well. Lately however, I've been noticing just how many Famicom games, PC-88 and PC-98 games etc there are that look amazing, and I discovered the wealth of available English translation patches along with the software used to patch the games. I've been adding every translated patch file to my library that I can find, and now have hundreds of games that are in various stages of translated completion available to play.

The first game I decided to try was the first Shin Megami Tensei for the Super Famicom, and the first few minutes of this game blew my fucking mind. The music of the intro alone, and the party creation sequence, were so remarkable that I instinctively knew I was in the presence of a masterpiece and needed to pay close attention because we may only experience a work of art for the first time once. This led me into an interest in the MegaTen series as a whole which I'd long been peripherally familiar with, having played the one Last Bible game and Persona 3 Portable (plus my wife and daughter have played all of the newer Persona games as they release), but I am now determined to try the original Digital Devil Story games for the Famicom and the MSX and PC-88 versions, as well as look into the anime and I already started to read the fan translation of the first novel. That is a rabbit hole unto itself and I digress, but this got me realizing that there must be other post-apocalyptic JRPGs and I find this particular setting fascinating, so I am reaching out in the hopes that perhaps some of you might share your favorites? And even if there are games that you ended up disliking, I'd like to just get an idea of what has been made and which games ought not to be missed.

I don't know how many games with this sort of setting there are, really the only other multi-game series that I'm somewhat familiar with is Metal Max. I know there are games based on anime or manga that feature post-apocalyptic or even apocalyptic settings, like Akira, Appleseed, Devilman etc but I don't know how many are actually JRPGs. I've made a few posts in the main emulation thread about how I've been trying to get the PC-98 version of Last Armageddon to run properly, and this is precisely the ideal kind of game I'm interested in. I know that the Famicom version is the only one with a fan translation, but I find the whole thing just incredibly appealing to the point I don't even mind not being able to read what is happening; I already know the general plot of that game, and for me it is enough to just look at the graphics. The art style is so awesome and the different versions each feature significant differences in design and presentation with some even foregoing the first-person blobber perspective entirely. I thoroughly enjoy watching the introductory cutscenes and looking at the characters and inventory menus, the same way I could spend hours looking at screenshots in magazines as a kid.

Mostly my interest is contained to the earliest period of JRPGs up to about the late 90s or early 00s, as once games became predominantly 3d the magic is basically lost on me, though there are exceptions. But I am curious to learn what games might be out there from any year and for any system, I really just want to establish a comprehensive list of games that fit this criteria. So if there are any hidden gems out there I would be very grateful for anybody who can share their knowledge with me. I don't know if games like Xenogears or Chrono Trigger necessarily quality in this capacity, but if so then I would be interested in similar games to these as well. Thank you very much for reading, and please take care.
 

HedgeGizard

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I love the Metal Maxes, especially the sprite-polygon mix ones for the DS (3 and the remake of 2). At this point, only 4 for the 3DS is untranslated, and that is currently being worked on by the team that did 3/2R. Hopefully it drops in the next few months.
You may want to try SMT1 and 2. SMT1 (after the first few hours) takes place in a blasted post-nuke Tokyo, while SMT2 takes place upon its ruins, in a religious version of Blade Runner. Both are far more "western" feeling than any subsequent games in their series, as well. If you're willing to brave 3d, try SMT:Nocturne, and if that hooks you, Digital Devil Saga. Nocturne takes place inside a "world egg" between universal incarnations, while DDS1 takes place in the techno-Mahabharata, and DDS2 takes place in the post-apocalyptic USA (I think Portland? I forget what city). All three use more or less the same battle system.
I would say Xenogears fits, but Chrono Trigger doesn't. You do see the world end in Trigger, but the tone is always cartoony and positive. Gears on the other hand is about unraveling the cyclic apocalypses that wrack the setting and treats the subject matter accordingly.
 

unseeingeye

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Awesome, thank you very much for your suggestions!

I am actually playing SMT1 currently, the Super Famicom version, though I've setup I think every other version of the game, so the Sega CD, PlayStation, PC-E CD versions etc. I figured I'd start with the Super Famicom version though, because I intend to play the earlier games on the Famicom. I spent a few days recently downloading and setting up every version of every MegaTen game I could find up to the PS 2 and PSP era using lists and websites that show each system for which each game released, and then those that I didn't already have from ROM packs I went and sourced elsewhere, and then went and sought every translation patch I could find and have everything ready to go in my LaunchBox library, I even made a separate playlist for them (like I do also for Wizardry games).

I haven't actually played any of the Metal Max games yet, but similarly I set them all up and am very much looking forward to them, they look like exactly the kind of game I'm interested in. Xenogears I mentioned because I honestly couldn't even remember much about the setting, I only played it once and that was over 20 years ago, so I fully intend to replay it at some point.
 

Duraframe300

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I would say Xenogears fits, but Chrono Trigger doesn't. You do see the world end in Trigger, but the tone is always cartoony and positive. Gears on the other hand is about unraveling the cyclic apocalypses that wrack the setting and treats the subject matter accordingly.

? Not sure what specfic part you're referring to here. Because Trigger's post apocalypse is some of the bleakest shit ever. You're confined to metallic, drab looking domes, with nothing to do but slowly rotting away along with all of humanity. And most of all, all that in a state of permanent hunger. (Those machines are pretty fucked up)

It's of course such a minor part of the game that it doesn't matter, but I certainly wouldn't call it positive either.
 

unseeingeye

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I'm going to have to replay Chrono Trigger at some point too, I only played it through once back when it was new and have since forgotten most of it.

I do remember getting a PlayStation version of it a bit later, along with I think Final Fantasy V and VI, but I barely played it and only really remember that it had anime style cutscenes. The Final Fantasy games I played for sure, in fact I still have my disc copies of Final Fantasy Origins, Suikoden II and Final Fantasy Tactics with the cases and manuals sitting in the bottom of a desk drawer. I don't own any of the old consoles anymore though so I can't make use of them, but I could never get rid of them.

Anyway I may have a few more games that qualify as post-apocalyptic that I wanted to share, if anybody knows otherwise please let me know? I'm going to make a playlist specifically for these sorts of games and wanted to discover as many as possible. I'm listing these and a few screenshots for the games along with a link in red to a mobygames information overview page, in no particular order. Most of these games were released for more than one computer or console, so I only listed what I believe to be the original release date and system for each game. If I find more I will append them, and if I've made any errors I will correct them. Some of these I was already aware of (like Crystalis, and the sequel.. of sorts, After Armageddon) but most of them are new to me.

1. Crystalis (1990) (NES)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/11147/crystalis/

d90sht3-41b90c96-e914-4ef6-843a-973a3327bf38.png

crystalis.jpg


2. Genesis: Beyond the Revelation (1985) (PC-88)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/51201/genesis-beyond-the-revelation/


genesis-Beyond-the-Revelation-2.png


3. The Screamer (1985) (PC-88)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/49989/the-screamer/

the-screamer-2.png

the-screamer-7.png


4. In the Psychic City (1984) (FM-7)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/51202/in-the-psychic-city/

6612727-in-the-psychic-city-pc-88-ive-never-heard-of-witches-being-cruci.png


5. Illusion City: Gen'ei Toshi (1991) (MSX)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/15537/illusion-city-genei-toshi/

5578141-illusion-city-genei-toshi-fm-towns-disco.jpg


6. Metal Eye (1993) (PC-98)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/43349/metal-eye/

Metal-Eye-1.jpg

Metal-Eye-1-PC98.png


7. Metal Eye 2 (1994) (PC-98)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/43352/metal-eye-2/

Metal-Eye-2.png


8. Maten Densetsu: Senritsu no Ooparts (1995) (SNES)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/14040/maten-densetsu-senritsu-no-ooparts/

Maten-Densetsu.png

Maten-Densetsu-1.png


9. Lamia-1999 (1987) (PC-88)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/55905/lamia-1999/

Lamia-1.png

Lamia-2.png


10. Susanoō Densetsu (1989) (TurboGrafx-16)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/49486/susanoo-densetsu/

Susanoo.jpg


11. Half-Pipe (1993) (PC-98)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/42890/half-pipe/

half-pipe.png


12. Shiryō Sensen: War of the Dead (1987) (MSX)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/49471/shiryo-sensen-war-of-the-dead/

shiryo-sensen.jpg

shiryo-sensen-msx.jpg


13. Shiryō Sensen 2 - War of the Dead Part 2(1988) (MSX)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/51432/shiryo-sensen-2-war-of-the-dead-part-2/

shiryo-sensen-2a.jpg

shiryo-sensen-2b.jpg

shiryo-sensen-2c.jpg


14. After Armageddon Gaiden: Majū Tōshōden Eclipse (1994) (Sega CD)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/41309/after-armageddon-gaiden-maju-toshoden-eclipse/

after-armageddon-1.jpg

after-armageddon-3.jpg


15. Mission (1995) (PC-98)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/46169/mission/

mission-1.png

mission-2.png


16. Rejection: Den-No Senshi (1992) (FM-Towns)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/58654/rejection-den-no-senshi/

rejection-1.jpg

rejection-0.jpg


17. Shiki Oni no Koku: Chūgokuhen - Daiisshō (1992) (PC-98)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/44825/shiki-oni-no-koku-chugokuhen-daiissho/

shiki-oni-1.png

shiki-oni-2.png

shiki-oni-3.png
 
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unseeingeye

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A fan translation for Baroque on the PSX was released just a few years ago. Very interesting art style, good soundtrack, a gloomy horror atmosphere and as you requested, a post apocalyptic setting.

You can get the patch from here: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/6316/
Holy shit, that is awesome! Thank you very much for sharing this information. I recall that I have a copy of Baroque for Sega Saturn already setup in my library but I don't think I grabbed a PlayStation version, not really knowing anything about it or even that it was a post-apocalyptic setting. This is very exciting, I just downloaded a pre-patched English translation copy and will change it to a .chd file for importing on my home computer. This game looks like it will be something that I'll go crazy over; a first-person dungeon crawler survival horror game set in the post-apocalyptic wake of an experiment to to comprehend God? Where have I been all these years, this looks incredible!
 

unseeingeye

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I tried searching the forum and didn't find a similarly titled thread

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/last-armageddon.134649/
I wasn't looking for a thread to discuss Last Armageddon specifically, I was looking for one discussing Japanese CRPGs that feature post-apocalyptic settings. I realize my post was long but said where to skip ahead to get to the point, and assumed the title of this thread was suggestive enough for people to infer the same. Last Armageddon is a game with which I'm already familiar, so I was looking for a thread hoping to find discussion of similar games.
 

PapaPetro

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I tried searching the forum and didn't find a similarly titled thread

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/last-armageddon.134649/
I wasn't looking for a thread to discuss Last Armageddon specifically, I was looking for one discussing Japanese CRPGs that feature post-apocalyptic settings. I realize my post was long but said where to skip ahead to get to the point, and assumed the title of this thread was suggestive enough for people to infer the same. Last Armageddon is a game with which I'm already familiar, so I was looking for a thread hoping to find discussion of similar games.
Gotcha.
You got good taste.
 

unseeingeye

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Gotcha.
You got good taste.
Thank you very much! I really love the Japanese perspective on post-apocalyptic scenarios, ever since I saw Akira as a kid in the early nineties which made me consider how it must have been for Japanese people who either lived through or were born around the aftermath of World War 2. Later on when the internet was more commonly available I'd read an interview with Otomo in which he described his fears growing up about nuclear bombs and it led me to become very interested in that perspective. The devastation in their manga, anime and video games reflects I think a collective unconscious wound of sorts, that even decades later the effects of that absolutely horrific nightmare unleashed on so many unsuspecting people are still present running as an undercurrent to everything they do.

The decline and cultural disintegration of the West are on entirely different terms I believe related to the civilizational 'organism' nearing the end of the final cycle in its allotted lifespan, where in Japan the bizarre and the perverse flourishes I think for reasons bound up in an already peculiar cultural history being impacted with the most profound force of mass violence we can conceive of. Take some of their more egregious offerings, like tentacle rape as a common theme - it is as if the collective nightmares of a people with an oceanic diet are merged with the mutated fantasies of the monstrous consequences of radiation. But their creative insight into the nature of an extinction level event are seriously fascinating, the ultimate chaos unleashed upon an orderly people. Probably my favorite post-apocalyptic Japanese imagery is unfortunately not from a video game, but from the 1985 film Angel's Egg with the illustrative design by Yoshitaka Amano. Certain scenes in it are ineffably strange and beautiful, as are the cyber punk and post-apocalyptic imagery of the anime anthologies Neo Tokyo and Robot Carnival. I wish there were more games that approached the subject in as surreal a manner as these do.
 

PapaPetro

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Gotcha.
You got good taste.
Thank you very much! I really love the Japanese perspective on post-apocalyptic scenarios, ever since I saw Akira as a kid in the early nineties which made me consider how it must have been for Japanese people who either lived through or were born around the aftermath of World War 2. Later on when the internet was more commonly available I'd read an interview with Otomo in which he described his fears growing up about nuclear bombs and it led me to become very interested in that perspective. The devastation in their manga, anime and video games reflects I think a collective unconscious wound of sorts, that even decades later the effects of that absolutely horrific nightmare unleashed on so many unsuspecting people are still present running as an undercurrent to everything they do.

The decline and cultural disintegration of the West are on entirely different terms I believe related to the civilizational 'organism' nearing the end of the final cycle in its allotted lifespan, where in Japan the bizarre and the perverse flourishes I think for reasons bound up in an already peculiar cultural history being impacted with the most profound force of mass violence we can conceive of. Take some of their more egregious offerings, like tentacle rape as a common theme - it is as if the collective nightmares of a people with an oceanic diet are merged with the mutated fantasies of the monstrous consequences of radiation. But their creative insight into the nature of an extinction level event are seriously fascinating, the ultimate chaos unleashed upon an orderly people. Probably my favorite post-apocalyptic Japanese imagery is unfortunately not from a video game, but from the 1985 film Angel's Egg with the illustrative design by Yoshitaka Amano. Certain scenes in it are ineffably strange and beautiful, as are the cyber punk and post-apocalyptic imagery of the anime anthologies Neo Tokyo and Robot Carnival. I wish there were more games that approached the subject in as surreal a manner as these do.
Yeah same journey-conclusion here. Just fascinated by their perspective on Apocalypse & Eschatology.
They were the only country that got nuked and the afterglow is still fresh in their culture. They are still trying to understand it and their own mortality both on an individual and social level almost a century later.
They ask some damn good questions (even though they don't offer very good answers).

I appreciate these these treads and the list, helps me out with finding more likened stuff to check out.
Thanks bro.

Also those jap anthologies rock. My favorite was the guy that had to manage the decrepit robo city-factory in the Amazon, felt straight out of Metropolis.
These shorts had a lot more soul than the Love Death + Robots ones.
 
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unseeingeye

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Right on, I like your take on it and considering the questions they raise in their art, that is a great observation. The anime and video games coming from there in the eighties and nineties are some of the high water marks of art history in my opinion, and there was such an explosion of creativity and experimentation that had very little, if any reservations as far as exploring some very disturbing topics. There is the inevitably unfortunate consequence that a deluge of perverse material was unleashed, but I'm of the opinion that the tradeoff is ultimately worth it because of the many marvels that coincided.

I can only imagine the nightmares that the people who lived through those bombings must have endured, the whole thing is so immense it is difficult to even fully appreciate its significance. I think of that very first scene in the original Evangelion manga and the anime series where the peaceful tranquility of the totally silent city drowning in a chorus of endless cicada song is suddenly interrupted by violent assault from the sky. There is so much religious and existential agony explored in works that deal with this theme and as you mentioned, with many of the questions raised, such as the illusory sense of the self, of the infinitesimal sense of personal significance contrasted with mechanisms and institutions that dwarf the individual, etc.

In a similar capacity I'm also a fan of some Japanoise music as well, some of the more well known artists like Boredoms or Merzbow, but they have some artists that are seriously fucking outrageous yet compelling all the same, people like Contagious Orgasm (Spill Drop was my introduction to that scene, and I've spoken with him online a few times, couldn't be a nicer guy) or for the truly demented, Government Alpha (I recommend Flawed Runway if you have the stomach for it, fair warning though) or my personal favorite, Violent Onsen Geisha in particular his album Otis. The latter might just qualify as the single most utterly weird album I've ever encountered, but I genuinely love it on a much deeper level of appreciation.

I don't necessarily care for their version of this stuff that resembles (in spirit) Western punk music, by which I mean culturally and sonically transgressive for its own sake, like the band Gerogerigegege that made even GG Allin look like a decent person, or pre-bordeoms Yamantaka Eye's band Hantarash where they would attack people from the stage with circular saws and machetes and once had someone drive an excavator through the back wall of the club while they were performing lol. These bands were more important as live experiences than as musicians recording albums, and a lot of the noise scene is filled with pretenders (as the majority of it has been in the West since the late nineties) who think running a drill across sheet metal or layering a barrage of warped guitar feedback for over an hour (see: Lou Reed) is important and worth preserving.

Another somewhat related concept that considered from the Japanese perspective I am endlessly curious about is that of God, as the creator. Not necessarily in a religious capacity, rather in the abstract, philosophical. Their religious and social history makes for an interesting collective of ideas relating to the creator, but I suppose it is the relative ambiguity and foreign views to me as a Westerner that make it so, I suppose like how some of them are so interested in medieval European history, royal pageantry and so on. They have a much deeper general knowledge of Western occult history, for instance, than most Westerners seem to.
 

PapaPetro

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The anime and video games coming from there in the eighties and nineties are some of the high water marks of art history in my opinion, and there was such an explosion of creativity and experimentation that had very little, if any reservations as far as exploring some very disturbing topics.
Yeah it was a golden age for anime, a real confluence of ideas, talent and technique. But it got self-aware and increasingly spent since gold is shiny & valuable.

I can only imagine the nightmares that the people who lived through those bombings must have endured, the whole thing is so immense it is difficult to even fully appreciate its significance. I think of that very first scene in the original Evangelion manga and the anime series where the peaceful tranquility of the totally silent city drowning in a chorus of endless cicada song is suddenly interrupted by violent assault from the sky. There is so much religious and existential agony explored in works that deal with this theme and as you mentioned, with many of the questions raised, such as the illusory sense of the self, of the infinitesimal sense of personal significance contrasted with mechanisms and institutions that dwarf the individual, etc.
The Japanese have such a weird take on Christianity as seen in Evangelion I noticed. It's very gnostic and monist; I don't think they understand the theo-philosophical concept of the Trinity from the One and the Many perspective. Probably due to Buddhism's monist influence on their Shinto culture (where all reality is seen as an illusion ultimately collapsing into Oneness). It sounds insignificant but if the majority of your society thinks this way, it can really affect the general worldview and shows in the cultural art that's produced. Like Instramentality is a good symbolic representation of Monism but is completely detatched from Christian Theology. So it's a really really weird (but fascinating) synthesis we see from over in Japan. Very liminal stuff.

 

unseeingeye

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It's very gnostic and monist; I don't think they understand the theo-philosophical concept of the Trinity from the One and the Many perspective.
You're perspective is very engaging to read, shame I can't press you for questions in real life because I'd love to hear your overall view on this. I quoted the above sentence because if I'm honest with you, I don't think even I understand it either, and I grew up in a traditional Catholic faith and even went to Catholic school for the first 7 grades, have the complete unabridged Summa Theologia of Aquinas on my bookshelves, and have devoured the works of many early theologians, with a focus on Augustine and Origen because of their direct experience and knowledge of late Roman paganism and Oriental mysticism. I say that mostly as a joke; obviously nobody truly understands it as it isn't possible to given that it is the fundamental mystery of the entire religion (and the cause of probably more schisms and heresies than almost anything else), and I understood what you were implying.

As much as I prefer Western style CRPGs for the combat, presentation and overall feel, the Japanese games that explore this kind of thing are really on an entirely other level and it seems much more rare for Western developers to go there, even back before the financial incentive to do otherwise overcame artist integrity. They even have some games that feature Western style settings that I consider just as brilliant if not surpassingly so than even the best Western CRPGs ever made, such as Tactics Ogre which to me easily ranks among the greatest video games ever made, across every criteria by which a game can be judged.

A major part of the reason why I drifted away from them for so many years has to do with what you brought up about the corrupting influence that massive mainstream appeal to Westerners brought, in which I watched anime and video games degenerate before my eyes as the years went by. Where once if I caught sight of an anime style bit of box art in my peripheral vision at a game or book store I would light up in anticipation, I became accustomed to indifference, which eventually changed into revulsion. The last truly great work of art I experienced in this style was the Bersek manga, and I was decades late to discovering it (and only did so by way of Dark Souls). But there is so much that I know I am missing, and while rediscovering an enthusiasm for JRPGs through games like Last Armageddon while building up my LaunchBox library of Japanese computer and console games, I got very excited to start looking further into obscure territory for great games and other works that I never caught on to in my youth.
 

PapaPetro

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I say that mostly as a joke; obviously nobody truly understands it as it isn't possible to given that it is the fundamental mystery of the entire religion (and the cause of probably more schisms and heresies than almost anything else), and I understood what you were implying.
I disagree as an Orthodox Christian and a Palamist. Else you have modal collapse such as in Monism: the Universal destruction of personhood/distinctions/existence.
Theosis is the meta-ethical ontological motive to become a Saint: to know more about God by becoming like-God. An infinite Ultimate Hero for us to emulate. Always moving closer to God for eternity.
We're called to be Theonauts: Participants and Exporers of the Divine!
It's the fabled "Why".

We can move on if you don't want to talk about this subject. No fuss. It's kinda a derailment.
 
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unseeingeye

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I disagree as an Orthodox Christian and a Palamist. Else you have modal collapse such as in Monism: the Universal destruction of personhood/distinctions/existence.
Theosis is the meta-ethical ontological motive to become a Saint: to know more about God by becoming like-God. An infinite Ultimate Hero for us to emulate. Always moving closer to God for eternity.
We're called to be Theonauts: Participants and Exporers of the Divine!
It's the fabled "Why".

We can move on if you don't want to talk about this subject. No fuss. It's kinda a derailment.
I see, sorry I misunderstood your position, I shouldn't have assumed one without asking. As far as I'm concerned this is a perfectly fine discussion to have, my first (and probably only) thread has barely any engagement otherwise so it makes no difference to me.

I'm admittedly not very familiar with the higher theology of Orthodox Christianity but am most definitely interested to learn more, I just haven't gotten around to studying it singularly yet. My relationship with Christianity is no longer one of active participation, and hasn't been ever since I drifted away from the Catholic milieu in which I was born and raised. But I've maintained a passion for the theology throughout my adult life, and have been caught up within a perpetual crisis of faith similar to that which led Augustine to convert. I just cannot accept the incarnation, never mind the generally gnostic views on material nature that I've concluded on variable bases I feel to be incontrovertible but are entirely personal and ineffable.

The transcendent ontological resolution in theosis does approximate my own perspective, though after having spent several years practicing contemplative devotion with unexpected consequences my approach to the divine has turned more scholastic and less overtly mystic, so to say. By nature I am of the visionary sort, and my intellect pales in comparison to my spiritual sensitivity, but having my existential hypostasis repeatedly confounded has tempered my enthusiasm for reckless theia mania. That being said the way I have cautiously approached studying the triune nature of God over the past few years has been relatively academic except for the anticipation for a presupposed conclusion of absolute incomprehensibility. Though sublime the immediateness of communion by theosis must be my hesitation in all such matters is due to the uncertain provenance and intentions of that which we conclude to be the Absolute. The revelatory origins of the nature of sin incline me to acquiesce but the utter weirdness implicit in the ineffable mystery of being compels my recalcitrance.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
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Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei 2 would be a great choice. There's a SNES remake of the Digital Devil Story games called Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei which was fully translated several years ago.
 

PapaPetro

Guest
practicing contemplative devotion with unexpected consequences my approach to the divine has turned more scholastic and less overtly mystic, so to say.
You didn't think that as a kid. Back then God COULD do ANYTHING. Now, "Adult God" is so ladden with attributes, laws, metaphysics, etc. that He may as well be a Divine D&D Rulebook.
God never changed. He's still God and omnipotence + freewill means He can get us to know Him how He wills It. That's where kid logic trumps formalized adult logic: they make better wishes.
 
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A fan translation for Baroque on the PSX was released just a few years ago. Very interesting art style, good soundtrack, a gloomy horror atmosphere and as you requested, a post apocalyptic setting.

You can get the patch from here: https://www.romhacking.net/translations/6316/
Holy shit, that is awesome! Thank you very much for sharing this information. I recall that I have a copy of Baroque for Sega Saturn already setup in my library but I don't think I grabbed a PlayStation version, not really knowing anything about it or even that it was a post-apocalyptic setting. This is very exciting, I just downloaded a pre-patched English translation copy and will change it to a .chd file for importing on my home computer. This game looks like it will be something that I'll go crazy over; a first-person dungeon crawler survival horror game set in the post-apocalyptic wake of an experiment to to comprehend God? Where have I been all these years, this looks incredible!
I was going to post about Baroque as well but got beat to the punch.

If you haven't tried Shadow Tower 1 and Shadow Tower Abyss they are both worth a play through. Though neither of them are as hidden as Baroque now due to the trickling in of people checking them out from the popularity Fromsoft gained from Dark Souls, so there's a chance you've already played them both. Abyss was never officially released thanks to Sony but in the past few years like Baroque it has a romhacked English translation.

They may not seem like typical post-apoc games but I feel like the dungeon crawling atmosphere gets close enough.
 

lightbane

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STower 1 though has no map and minimal draw distance, which is annoying as hell to play.
 

unseeingeye

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Strap Yourselves In
..due to the trickling in of people checking them out from the popularity Fromsoft gained from Dark Souls,..
Guilty as charged :(

I'm so many years out of touch with Japanese games of any sort that I am only just recently learning about these kinds of obscure ones. I at least played Dark Souls prior to Elden Ring, though I only started with the second game and didn't really "get it" until the third, to my great shame.

I did download copies of the King's Field games (and followed a guys post on CDRomance to know which ones as uploaded there were which actual games sequentially) and Shadow Tower, but have not grabbed Abyss yet nor have I started to play any of them. I'm still building up as many cool games that I missed out on as I can find before I start really devoting serious attention to them, plus I'm in the middle of a Wizardry 7 and a Grimoire playthrough. King's Field I've long been peripherally aware of so I look forward to finally checking it out.

By the way and not immediately relevant to the thread, but I just noticed yesterday that a new translation of the Sega Saturn version of Tactics Ogre was released! I've always wanted to properly play that version of the game, so I'm very excited about this, discovering Baroque and finding this translation made for a great day.
 

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