Incline Post-decline gems

[Ash]

Just like Tomb Raider is laughably easy, junior? Which version did you play this time?

But yeah, aside from saving it doesn't matter a huge deal - it IS one of the easier FPS of the 90s unfortunately. Largely due to most enemies being melee attackers and stunlocking easy, even if there are a lot of them. But it's so full of Alien love, amazing sound design, soundtrack and atmopshere. Level design is fairly interesting too, though no Doom. If it is this or 95% of shitty shooters made after Y2K the choice is clear.

The single most notable exclusive PS FPS is Brahma Force. Really cool game. Exceeds expectations. Even goes beyond the standard 90s PC FPS in some ways.

 

[Zlaja]

Stop being a massive ignoramus

Whatever you say, butthurt PSX fanboy.

Now that's a mediocre game

Onimusha 2 is one of the better action games on the PS2, while Dawn of Dreams is a confused mess.

 

[janior]

Just like Tomb Raider is laughably easy, junior? Which version did you play this time?

ps1 version and... its not worth playing, does nothing interesting/new, awful level design clearly made by amateurs, they kept nice authentic alien aesthetic - final rating 4/10(I quit the game half-way through due to bored them and lack of difficulty, after first few chapters game showers u with so much ammo u can never run out)

anyway kill yourself u retarded piece of shit nigger modder

 

[Ash]

It's a 7/10 game you little bitch. Not sure how you can think the level design is amateur or awful either, clearly you haven't played many games, especially the many shitty FPS out there. It's not amazing but it along with the audio-visual experience and atmosphere carries the game. I am skeptical you gave up half way through and not after a couple of levels, as the first handful are fairly straightforward before it gets interesting. Also like Doom it takes your ammo n shit away in episodic phases, so it was probably stocking you up for a bossfight right before that happens and you gave up like a bitch. The resource management is equivalent to any other decent FPS.

As for nothing new and interesting:

-The first FPS with a dedicated grenade toss input (satchel charges).
-The first FPS alongside Nukem 3D that felt like a real place.
-Somewhat faithful to source material, even the sound effects are the same as the movies, and its fucking Alien which will always be cool.
-First FPS (maybe) with CD-quality music, and it's an excellent soundtrack.
-The bonus stages every few levels were unique.
-Decent level design will always be new and interesting. Again, not amazing but it has its moments.

Otherwise yeah, it's a Doom clone, as all great FPS were at their core before the decline ruined it all.

 

[Ash]

Stop being a massive ignoramus

Whatever you say, butthurt PSX fanboy.

Now that's a mediocre game

Onimusha 2 is one of the better action games on the PS2, while Dawn of Dreams is a confused mess.

Sure thing, butthurt PS2 fanboy.

DoD >>> Onimusha 2.

 

[Machocruz]

When it comes to the precision of 3D platformers, I don't consider there to be a problem at all. First person or third. Obviously 2D is the most precise as there's one less axis to factor and side view helps with footing as you said, but I don't consider there to be any objective unavoidable "issue" that needs resolving with 3D here. Skill issue and whining for sure. Many 3D platformers control like a dream. Turok, Dying Light, hell even Maximo...and classic Tomb Raider despite its tank controls. It's pure precision once you get used to it. Many 3D games also provide great assistance by drawing a blob shadow directly underneath the character that's always present. It doesn't get more precise than that. People just suck.

if I rank 2D higher because it allows for and requires more precision from the player, than it stands to reason that I think 3D demands less precision, come on now. The opposite of a skill issue. No one was complaining it was hard to land jumps in 3D platformers, with some notable exceptions. And yeah, those blob shadows...you generally don't need them as you have plenty of allowance for miscalculations. Are you saying you need the assistance? Maybe you suck, my man. And yes many 3D platformers control well, as in responsive and feel good, but that's not the argument.

 

[Ash]

The assistance of blob shadows in third person games is ideal to help with depth perception and optimal precision, for absolutely everyone yes.

3D platforming demands less precision what? Objectively that's false as there's an extra dimension. Now if you're referring to the level designs devs made with the understanding of that, then generally yes. 3D platforming level designs would be made easier to compensate, outside of some exceptions. e.g I threw on crash bandicoot 1 the other day and shit ain't easy at all later in the game.

 

[Spike]

Stop being a massive ignoramus

Whatever you say, butthurt PSX fanboy.

Now that's a mediocre game

Onimusha 2 is one of the better action games on the PS2, while Dawn of Dreams is a confused mess.

Sure thing, butthurt PS2 fanboy.

DoD >>> Onimusha 2.

I can't believe I am agreeing with you, but DoD is better than Onimusher 2. However, they're still good games. 2 especially. But you do seem like a PSX fanboy lol. I don't understand the 13-year-old-on-the-internet-tier namecalling you beclown yourself with when people simply disagree with you.

The assistance of blob shadows in third person games is ideal to help with depth perception and optimal precision, for absolutely everyone yes.

3D platforming demands less precision what? Objectively that's false as there's an extra dimension. Now if you're referring to the level designs devs made with the understanding of that, then generally yes. 3D platforming level designs would be made easier to compensate, outside of some exceptions. e.g I threw on crash bandicoot 1 the other day and shit ain't easy at all later in the game.

This is accurate too. You're like 50/50 with your takes but when you're on it, you're on it.

 

[Ash]

Nah I'm 100% accurate, Sir. Always. I think you just need to play more PS1. PS2 has a lot of good stuff, but the PS1 has plenty true 90s game design.

Don't take my insults personally. Just having fun

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I don't understand the 13-year-old-on-the-internet-tier namecalling you beclown yourself with when people simply disagree with you.

Ask him about Chronotrigger

 

[Spike]

I don't understand the 13-year-old-on-the-internet-tier namecalling you beclown yourself with when people simply disagree with you.

Ask him about Chronotrigger

Lol. Then I will get Chronotriggered...I actually have seen his absolute evisceration of CT and I agree 100% wholeheartedly. That whole era of JRPGs kind of echoes that but it meets its zenith in CT.

Nah I'm 100% accurate, Sir. Always. I think you just need to play more PS1. PS2 has a lot of good stuff, but the PS1 has plenty true 90s game design.

Don't take my insults personally. Just having fun

Sure thing, I meant when you called that Onimusha guy a little bitch lol. Maybe I do need to play more PSX. I highly doubt anything will dethrone the PS2 platformers though.

 

[Spike]

The problem I had with Maximo was not so much in its gameplay. That was serviceable though nothing special at all and a little bullshit in difficulty at times as per ghosts and goblins tradition. It was the aesthetics and music. Lvl 1? Graveyard with shitty music. Lvl 2? Graveyard with the same shitty music. Lvl 3? Graveyard with the same shitty music. Lvl4? Graveyard with the same shitty music. The full soundtrack is 27 mins long and bland to boot. Pathetic.

No other game worth its salt does this. It reminds me of Medievil (yet another 3D PS1 action-platformer that is superior, and starts in a graveyard) but shit. I'd also rather play Ghouls and Ghosts (1988 - Arcade/Genesis/SNES) instead. Every level is vastly different in aesthetics, music and flow. As is old school monocled standard. So, the game clearly drops the ball when it comes to the standards of its predecessor, and the old school in general. Unfortunate as the gameplay is fairly decent, but again not great. Still probably a slight improvement upon its predecessors but that's not enough to save it compared to other, better 3D platformers.

When it comes to the precision of 3D platformers, I don't consider there to be a problem at all. First person or third. Obviously 2D is the most precise as there's one less axis to factor and side view helps with footing as you said, but I don't consider there to be any objective unavoidable "issue" that needs resolving with 3D here. Skill issue and whining for sure. Many 3D platformers control like a dream. Turok, Dying Light, hell even Maximo...and classic Tomb Raider despite its tank controls. It's pure precision once you get used to it. Many 3D games also provide great assistance by drawing a blob shadow directly underneath the character that's always present. It doesn't get more precise than that. People just suck.

Ghouls and Ghosts Genesis Soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hl4q6H1jkc

From 1989, on a 4MB cartridge with a slightly longer and far more interesting soundtrack. Maximo is decline.

I also wanted to address this: you are wrong, sir. The levels have a ton of variety: from the lava world, to the ice world, to the jungle world, graveyard world...I suppose there could have been more enemy variety because the zombie-type enemy does show up a lot. Also the music is great! I do think Maximo is what a 3D GnG would have been and it's a shame the vast market of gamers (especially at the time) are tremendous, hopeless plebs. I remember vividly because I lived through it. The dark edgy Jak II cringe inspired by GTA...All my friends ate that shit up. Same generation that sucked on hip hop's teets. It sickens me to this day and gaming felt its consequences: truly an entire generation of idiots. Heaven and earth! Meanwhile I was quietly monocling away enjoying true kino, as we all were. Also Maximo > Medievil. Medievil is an example of something serviceable in gameplay. It is "fine" but nothing great the way Maximo is. Medievil was an important step of discovering what a 3D platformer can be/is/should be, etc. But not fully "there yet".

 

[Ash]

I agree Medievil's gameplay could be better, but it is for sure decent and it nails everything else (music, aesthetics, variety etc).

Sounds like I may need to give Maximo another go, but while being a massive gameplayfag I do value greatly all other aspects of design which Maximo is definitely lacking in by old school standards.

What are your top three PS2 3D platformers? Spike If I haven't played them, I may try them now.

Just know they will be going up against Tomb Raider 1 & 2, Spyro 1 and Castlevania SOTN (not 3D but still) in my evaluation, as well as to a lesser extent all the platforming in other PS action-platforming games.

 

[Machocruz]

Also the music is great! I do think Maximo is what a 3D GnG would have been and it's a shame the vast market of gamers (especially at the time) are tremendous, hopeless plebs. I remember vividly because I lived through it. The dark edgy Jak II cringe inspired by GTA...All my friends ate that shit up. Same generation that sucked on hip hop's teets. It sickens me to this day and gaming felt its consequences: truly an entire generation of idiots. Heaven and earth! Meanwhile I was quietly monocling away enjoying true kino, as we all were. Also Maximo > Medievil. Medievil is an example of something serviceable in gameplay. It is "fine" but nothing great the way Maximo is. Medievil was an important step of discovering what a 3D platformer can be/is/should be, etc. But not fully "there yet".

Yes they preferred the collectathon flatformers of the N64 and beyond, the same kind of games you go to bat for on PS2. Jak 2 and 3 didn't even follow the mold of Jak 1 which was more in the vein of Crash Bandicoot than Rare roaming around hijinks. Of course ND went on to make Uncharted where the game will reposition you to grasp on to a ledge that you would have missed otherwise, because plebs can't into spacing apparently. Geez, even with the generosities provided by the majority of 3D platformers, scrubs still get filtered. How would they even get past the first level of a Mega Man or Celeste?

 

[Ash]

FUCK Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, Batman, Nu Tomb Raider. Platforming like most genres went down the drain. In that era it was non-existent. Shooters were flat plane and 100% linear, platforming gone. The fake Action-Platformers mentioned above were braindead retard-tier, they're just pretending to be platformers but going by old standards they dont qualify. Stealth games ceased to exist except I suppose the half-efforts by Dishonored and Deus Ex 3 which both have easy freeform platforming and are easy games in general all-around. Thief 4's biggest mistake is its removal of platforming with contextual jumps. Basically, platforming in all forms was dead. The industry universally decided it must go so the non-gamers buy their games. It's come back a bit with the indie scene but still largely wiped out in AAA. Blessed be to Dying Light and to a lesser extent Sekiro though.

Platforming is integral to action gaming. If there was an action game of almost any kind in the 90s and to a lesser extent the early 00s, it had platforming. Without, level design needs to be 100% flat, not in any way 3D, which is decline. That or they add contextual automated jump points everywhere which is also steep decline. One of few subgenres I accept the absence of platforming is survival horror. Also Onimusha is decline for not featuring it, is what keeps the series from DMC and NG status. That's why I like DoD and I am sure Spike also: the inclusion of heavy puzzle elements, party management and RPG systems makes up for it. Not so much in the earlier games though.

 

[Spike]

Also the music is great! I do think Maximo is what a 3D GnG would have been and it's a shame the vast market of gamers (especially at the time) are tremendous, hopeless plebs. I remember vividly because I lived through it. The dark edgy Jak II cringe inspired by GTA...All my friends ate that shit up. Same generation that sucked on hip hop's teets. It sickens me to this day and gaming felt its consequences: truly an entire generation of idiots. Heaven and earth! Meanwhile I was quietly monocling away enjoying true kino, as we all were. Also Maximo > Medievil. Medievil is an example of something serviceable in gameplay. It is "fine" but nothing great the way Maximo is. Medievil was an important step of discovering what a 3D platformer can be/is/should be, etc. But not fully "there yet".

Yes they preferred the collectathon flatformers of the N64 and beyond, the same kind of games you go to bat for on PS2. Jak 2 and 3 didn't even follow the mold of Jak 1 which was more in the vein of Crash Bandicoot than Rare roaming around hijinks. Of course ND went on to make Uncharted where the game will reposition you to grasp on to a ledge that you would have missed otherwise, because plebs can't into spacing apparently. Geez, even with the generosities provided by the majority of 3D platformers, scrubs still get filtered. How would they even get past the first level of a Mega Man or Celeste?

Mega Man is among the greatest NES games. And yes they enjoyed some N64 games, but there was a stark contrast at some point where kids just stopped caring about 3D platformers when they became pre-teens. The pre-teens in my generation were horrid. Tasteless.

I agree Medievil's gameplay could be better, but it is for sure decent and it nails everything else (music, aesthetics, variety etc).

Sounds like I may need to give Maximo another go, but while being a massive gameplayfag I do value greatly all other aspects of design which Maximo is definitely lacking in by old school standards.

What are your top three PS2 3D platformers? Spike If I haven't played them, I may try them now.

Just know they will be going up against Tomb Raider 1 & 2, Spyro 1 and Castlevania SOTN (not 3D but still) in my evaluation, as well as to a lesser extent all the platforming in other PS action-platforming games.

You have probably already played them. I would say the Jak/Sly/Ratchet series which I have been slurping this entire thread. However, original Spyro trilogy is on this level. Crash Bandicoot is not, though it's still good. What are some PS action-platforming games? I never really considered that kind of platforming to be on-par with a dedicated platformer game. Is there platforming in Syphon Filter?...Can't remember...

 

[Spike]

FUCK Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, Batman, Nu Tomb Raider. Platforming like most genres went down the drain. In that era it was non-existent. Shooters were flat plane and 100% linear, platforming gone. The fake Action-Platformers as mentioned were braindead retard-tier, they're just pretending to be platformers but going by old standards they dont qualify. Stealth games ceased to exist except I suppose the half-efforts by Dishonored and Deus Ex 3 which both have easy freeform platforming and are easy games in general all-around. Basically, platforming in all forms was dead. It's come back a bit with the indie scene but still largely wiped out in AAA.

Platforming is integral to gaming. If there was an action game of almost any kind in the 90s and early 00s, it had platforming. Without, level design needs to be 100% flat which is decline.

This is depressing. I saw in another post you made in another thread that upper 2000's/early 2010s were worse than this current era. They were. And it isn't even close. I consider Assassin's Creed/Uncharted to be anti-games. I leave Batman out because the combat, though simplistic, was fun. I also enjoyed those games as a vehicle for based Paul Dini telling fun Batman stories which never get old. But I would never kid myself into thinking the gameplay itself is anywhere near the stratosphere of quality from what came before (or since).

 

[Lemming42]

The first Assassin's Creed was a proof of concept, but it's a concept they bizarrely never expanded on. AC2 and AC3 were more of the same with AC3 in particular being utterly weighed down by lengthy boring cutscenes.

I like AssCreed Odyssey but it's bizarre that it still doesn't really use the freeform climbing mechanic in any meaningful way, and instead the fun comes from very traditional stealth and combat gameplay. The most you can do with it is climb up a mountainside or up a fort wall to start your infiltration of an enemy outpost. There must be a better and more comprehensive way to use that mechanic in a game.

 

[Zlaja]

What are your top three PS2 3D platformers? @Spike If I haven't played them, I may try them now.

Sands of Time is pretty good.

 

[Machocruz]

I agree Medievil's gameplay could be better, but it is for sure decent and it nails everything else (music, aesthetics, variety etc).

Sounds like I may need to give Maximo another go, but while being a massive gameplayfag I do value greatly all other aspects of design which Maximo is definitely lacking in by old school standards.

What are your top three PS2 3D platformers? Spike If I haven't played them, I may try them now.

Just know they will be going up against Tomb Raider 1 & 2, Spyro 1 and Castlevania SOTN (not 3D but still) in my evaluation, as well as to a lesser extent all the platforming in other PS action-platforming games.

You have probably already played them. I would say the Jak/Sly/Ratchet series which I have been slurping this entire thread. However, original Spyro trilogy is on this level. Crash Bandicoot is not, though it's still good. What are some PS action-platforming games? I never really considered that kind of platforming to be on-par with a dedicated platformer game. Is there platforming in Syphon Filter?...Can't remember...

I have to be fair and admit that Jak 1*, Sly, and Ratchet series are just good games in general. I'd say that Sly and Ratchet are stealth and TPS, respectively, first and foremost, not platformers in a strict sense, although there is that too. Hella polished, responsive, light hearted, fun. And their central mechanics are better than collecting bananas or mini-game shit.

Edit: Maximo punishes you for failure, which is something the fruit collectors and freeroamers don't do.

*Jak 2 isn't mechanically bad, but the edge is cringe. Jak 3 is a good action game.

 

[Ash]

I like AssCreed Odyssey but it's bizarre that it still doesn't really use the freeform climbing mechanic in any meaningful way, and instead the fun comes from very traditional stealth and combat gameplay. The most you can do with it is climb up a mountainside or up a fort wall to start your infiltration of an enemy outpost. There must be a better and more comprehensive way to use that mechanic in a game.

Oh really? Very traditional eh? So it's actually challenging and fun?

What are your top three PS2 3D platformers? @Spike If I haven't played them, I may try them now.

Sands of Time is pretty good.

Played it. It's good but too linear and filler combat. The platforming is really fun, but that's it. The game doesn't go beyond that. The ending is pretty cool but that's storyfag and doesn't count. 7.5/10. Could maybe be 8 even, but it has zero replayability or long-term appeal, and the combat drags down the excellent platforming instead of propping it up. Beat it once, probably never will again. Aside from the solid incline in platforming mechanics, I consider the overall design to be decline compared to 90s standards.

 

[Machocruz]

PoP: Warrior Within improved the combat and platforming setups but cringified the presentation. I think it's the best game of the trilogy overall.

 

[Ash]

Just yesterday I was hovering my mouse over the file of Warrior Within wondering if I should play or not. Can I stomach a typical PS2 good for what it is linear brown edgy game with subdued music and overall decent but not great gameplay? I was leaning to yes but I decided to read a bunch of reviews, and the main reason I backed off is a lot mentioned semi-frequent crashing.

That's another reason 90s is king. The music, sweet baby electronic beethoven, the music.



I am actually playing Extermination right now, an early PS2 survival horror (barely) with more action game elements than usual (platforming, combat is more than aim+shoot). It's interesting. Has the makings of greatness but like most PS2 just falls short of the mark. One step forward, two steps back.

 

[Lemming42]

Oh really? Very traditional eh? So it's actually challenging and fun?

It's an odd game and one that's hard to outright recommend, but I did have a lot of fun with it. Combat is sort of Soulslike-ish (though generally easier than any Soulslike I've played) and revolves around using various abilities you get upon leveling up. Stealth is mostly just seeing how many people you can do takedowns on before the whole base gets alerted and comes down on you. You can also knock out any enemy in the game rather than kill them and then recruit them to your crew, which I thought was really cool. The only big drawback is that if you choose the right gear, combat can become pretty trivial before the mid-game.

It's the only AssCreed game I've really liked, mostly because it's so strangely different to all the others. A lot of people think it's the absolute worst in the series though so I guess it's one of those games that strongly divides people.

 

[Machocruz]

I don't like Ubisofts propensity for wall hax and 5 different enemy awareness indicators to give the player all the advantages in stealth. I assume those can be turned off in the settings, but it winds me up when I see people playing with them on.