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Incline Post-decline gems

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
I liked the story with humans encounterung an enemy they had themselves created and then forgot about. The campaign was very intense and the missions required a lot of focus on the highest difficulty, at least for me who is not that good of a gamer.

The presentation was great and the characters were alright. I had fun with it in 2015 and back then there weren't that many RTS titles to compete for attention.

I haven't played it since so I don't know if it stands the test of time.
I pirated it and couldn't get the game to run. There's some issue with their servers being taken down and it prevents launching missions for some people. Quite annoying as I was looking forward to it.
 

TripJack

Hedonist
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
5,132
Thread makes me sad. Gems since 2006 all I can think of is Stalker and indie shit like Mark of the Ninja, Invisible Inc, Dwarf Fortress, Rimworld, Starsector, Hotline Miami
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,183
That's cause you haven't played the good shit. While the % of good games indisputably declined post 2005, over a period of almost 20 years now, even if you only get a few gems per year, that still adds up.
 

TripJack

Hedonist
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
5,132
I played many of the games listed on first pages of this thread. Most I lost interest in and didnt finish
 

SpellingSword

Literate
Joined
Dec 23, 2023
Messages
5
ToME4 - I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, unless I missed it. It's not a traditional roguelike by any means but the game is very fun. The classes are distinct and there are multiple build options for each. Plus it's free unless you specifically want it on Steam.

Dragon's Dogma - if you want the wind to push you.

Endless Sky - another FOSS game. The gameplay is meh at best, but the ship-building aspect is neat and there is always a sense of progression. The exploration is pretty good and the story is surprisingly interesting.

Guacamelee - a lesser known Metroidvaina with an excellent style and fun action.

Sunless Sea/Cultist Simulator/Book of Hours - really, just play everything Alexis Kennedy makes. The writing and world-building is incredible.

Noita - everyone here probably knows about it, but still. Delectable Finnish madness made into a game.

Salt and Sanctuary - a weird Metroidvania with *deep lore* (There's a 100 page PDF made by the community dedicated to it). The gameplay is fine and the art is strange but alluring.

Space Pirates and Zombies - Not Starsector in quality, but still very fun. Watch out for the science leaking out.

Steamworld Dig 1 & 2 - wonderful little Metroidvanias. The second substantially improves on every aspect of the first, but it's still worth playing.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
Guacamelee - a lesser known Metroidvaina with an excellent style and fun action.
Guacamelee is really well known. It was constantly in bundles and on top 10 metroidvania lists.
Salt and Sanctuary - a weird Metroidvania with *deep lore* (There's a 100 page PDF made by the community dedicated to it). The gameplay is fine and the art is strange but alluring.
Salt and Sacrifice is worth playing too. It's a bit rough around the edges but it's enjoyable. The Dishwasher is by the same studio and if you want to emulate an xbox live arcade game it's worth seeing as the origin of ska studio's style..
Steamworld Dig 1 & 2 - wonderful little Metroidvanias. The second substantially improves on every aspect of the first, but it's still worth playing.
Hard to call these metroidvanias. They're fun games but they're more puzzle platformers. Arguing semantics though.

Hows the new steamworld game?
 

Elthosian

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
1,138
If i had to recommend only one game that came out after 2004 and that was worth playing above any other in any genre that would definitely be Rain World

Pretty much this, I'd go further and recommend it over pretty much any masterpiece from the 90s and early 00s.

Having put over 80 hours into it without even finishing the first campaign (have like two areas left), I'm at the point where I'm questioning whether I will be able to enjoy any game that overlaps with its concepts and mechanics in the slightest without reaching the same heights. I fired up Subnautica earlier and couldn't bring myself to have a good time with it despite knowing it's a good game. Rain World simply oozes creativity and passion, and it's evident the creators were very faithful to their vision in a way few other developers have.

774e0ef88ad24b8ae1e80ffa719ce9e2b8cd9c9b.gif
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,183
If i had to recommend only one game that came out after 2004 and that was worth playing above any other in any genre that would definitely be Rain World

Pretty much this, I'd go further and recommend it over pretty much any masterpiece from the 90s and early 00s.

Having put over 80 hours into it without even finishing the first campaign (have like two areas left), I'm at the point where I'm questioning whether I will be able to enjoy any game that overlaps with its concepts and mechanics in the slightest without reaching the same heights. I fired up Subnautica earlier and couldn't bring myself to have a good time with it despite knowing it's a good game. Rain World simply oozes creativity and passion, and it's evident the creators were very faithful to their vision in a way few other developers have.

774e0ef88ad24b8ae1e80ffa719ce9e2b8cd9c9b.gif

Games like Rain World are exactly why I started this thread. Let's face it, a lot of good games post decline, most of us already know about (e.g. Fallout: New Vegas or Dark Souls or Witcher series), but there is a lot of little known gems that very few people have played, and I hope we can shine a light on them here.
 

Elthosian

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
1,138
I fired up Subnautica earlier and couldn't bring myself to have a good time with it despite knowing it's a good game.
Why would you have to force yourself to enjoy something? If you do great, if not don't force it.

I wasn't very clear there, sorry. I had played it before and enjoyed my time with it, but coming back after getting an actual living ecosystem in RW made it hard for me to continue playing so I just dropped it after like half an hour.

If i had to recommend only one game that came out after 2004 and that was worth playing above any other in any genre that would definitely be Rain World

Pretty much this, I'd go further and recommend it over pretty much any masterpiece from the 90s and early 00s.

Having put over 80 hours into it without even finishing the first campaign (have like two areas left), I'm at the point where I'm questioning whether I will be able to enjoy any game that overlaps with its concepts and mechanics in the slightest without reaching the same heights. I fired up Subnautica earlier and couldn't bring myself to have a good time with it despite knowing it's a good game. Rain World simply oozes creativity and passion, and it's evident the creators were very faithful to their vision in a way few other developers have.

Games like Rain World are exactly why I started this thread. Let's face it, a lot of good games post decline, most of us already know about (e.g. Fallout: New Vegas or Dark Souls or Witcher series), but there is a lot of little known gems that very few people have played, and I hope we can shine a light on them here.

Undoubtedly, I feel really happy whenever I get new people to play those unknown gems.

Speaking of other games which I think do a good work in the decline era, I have put around an hour into Fear & Hunger and my experience was surprisingly pleasing. It goes a bit deep into the 'grimdarkness' but I feel like the systems and the exploration are all well done. Will definitely come back to say more about it after spending some more time with it.
 

Elthosian

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
1,138
We just finished Rain World last night, and damn, it surpassed every expectation and theory my wife and I had pondered over as we played and discussed our game. The ending, after the utter frustration we felt at every turn and the slow built up in exposition, is the most beautiful and fulfilling thing I've experienced in a videogame and probably in any form of art (and my wife holds a similar position). Over the second half of last year, we had put some 50 hours into it in sporadic sessions, but starting on Jan 1st we dedicated pretty much all of our free time into it, investing an additional 60 hours into it in the two weeks since, which, considering we both work, goes to show how deep it drew us into its beautiful yet punishing world. To be fair, a normal playthrough should take some 30 hours, but the cooperative gameplay adds a lot of potential for deaths (we died 600 times, quit 200 times; only 45 the 110 hours logged by Steam were counted as "alive" time), plus we went out of our way to pick up over 80% of the available unlockables before feeling satisfied enough to head out to the ending area. Those who have finished might see how well this plays with the themes of the game, and I now feel confident in saying that this is the best game I've ever played, and I seriously doubt it will be surpassed in the future.

The best part? We're not even done with it. We got the "bad ending" of the second campaign (Hunter) and though of course it does not hit quite the same chords the fact you're better at fighting off other creatures and that you must feed off them to survive makes for a completely different experience where you can see the more advanced patterns of the AI play out. And we still have some other 6 campaigns left from the base game and the DLC, so this game still has time to keep making an impression on us. Unbelievable.

I didn't talk much about it but the OST is downright amazing, other than the combat music (that in itself deserves being discussed), it plays very sparsely, but over half of it is stuff you might as well listen to if you enjoy game music:




But we still had to dose down a bit on the RW obsession so now we're doing the well known Outer Wilds together and I got to put some more time into Fear & Hunger. I can't say the game will be a great experience from start to beginning because I'm still dying over and over in the first few areas but damn it's certainly something special, itemization is crazy good so far, level design is more open with a couple bifurcations from the first moment, and the whole experience is downright brutal. If you were put off by the RPGMaker style please ignore it because if the whole game is as good as the first couple of hours you will be in for a hell of a trip.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,183
I bought Rain World a while back, due to same type of feedback from many other people. But only tried to play it once so far, and couldn't get into it yet. It's one of those games that are hard to get into, what the fuck, im playing some slug cat crawling through pipes, why am I doing this? But I do realize, if you put in the time, it's supposed to be amazing.
 

Elthosian

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
1,138
I bought Rain World a while back, due to same type of feedback from many other people. But only tried to play it once so far, and couldn't get into it yet. It's one of those games that are hard to get into, what the fuck, im playing some slug cat crawling through pipes, why am I doing this? But I do realize, if you put in the time, it's supposed to be amazing.

At first you should just get into the role of the slug cat and try to eat and survive until the next day while following the small yellow thing that nudges you forward in the hopes you can find your family. It's fun because in our playthrough we didn't notice it was trying to help us and we missed most of the tutorials and ended up doing the core sequence of the game backward. Those that have finished the game, just imagine having the FA, SI and CC be the first three areas you visit. It was downright *brutal,* but we did get a nice achievement and it has some impact in-game.

Anyway, I'd say if you're interested enough, you should open a thread and ask other people to give you reasonable hints, so you keep the feel of discovery more or less intact. I say this because it's very easy to get spoiled while looking for seemingly straightforward information online, but once you get the hang of it, the direction starts becoming clearer and if you're an immersive sim enthusiast you will downright fall in love with how much the gameplay opens up as you start getting better and more creative, not to mention all the emergent gameplay goodness that will keep you coming back for more.

Now I need pre-decline gems.

That one is easy, Berwick Saga. I still haven't finished it thanks to Rain World but it's one of the most masterfully crafted SRPGs ever made, with pretty decent writing, at least two ways to approach mosts of the maps including the very first one and a low numbers progression system that ditches the "huge numbers -> neuron activation" braindead approach of most RPGs in favor of usage-based skill growth with zero grinding that makes your tactical wits much more important than the number of OP units you are able to deploy. Even the itemization is several tiers over any other game. If you're not convinced, go read Endemic's let's play. It's my favorite turn-based game alongside JA2 1.13 and Underrail and it didn't even need modders or a prolonged early access process to get there.
 

El Presidente

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
1,569
Location
Oval Office
This is how I'd illustrate the timeline of decline, disregarding how I'd rate the 80's, 90's and early 00's among themselves:

m0KMpuh.jpg


2005-2006 were very lackluster years already, then immediately afterwards the PS3 gen arrived and the industry will never fully recover from that generation, the worst in its history. Things got much better after it and lots of great gems were made, especially with the advent of the indie scene, but that valley of death left a big scar, and the perception among retards of PC being a second tier market comes straight from that era.


btw this is how things would be in the timeline where indie games never became a thing:

AFsEDOQ.jpg
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,183
I would disagree with the last part. Indie games are important of course, but there have been some amazing AA-AAA games made in the last 10-15 years.
 

Elthosian

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
1,138
I agree with the indies part but AAAs were way worse in the 2005-2012 dark ages than nowadays, please be reminded that ~GOTY~ 2009 was Uncharted 2 and you can't possibly go deeper into popamole shit than that. I don't know how it happened but I'm happy so many single player game developers left health regen behind. Stuff like the Resident Evil 2 remake wouldn't have been possible in 2008, heck, STALKER SOC still has a reputation for being eurojank dating back to these days despite being more polished and less bloated than your average sandbox game today.
 

El Presidente

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
1,569
Location
Oval Office
I would disagree with the last part. Indie games are important of course, but there have been some amazing AA-AAA games made in the last 10-15 years.
I agree but without an indie scene to backup them and sometimes even outright expand what would otherwise be a lone spark in the dark to become an entire genre, then things would be far more difficult for them. I don't think indie games are exclusively the only worthwhile ones these days, but they also serve to foster good ideas and keep some flames alive. They're also mostly free from live services and other similar shitty practices, so they also play a role in keeping those forces relatively in check, to some extent. In short, I think their existence also serve other, more indirect purposes.
 

Halfling Rodeo

Educated
Joined
Dec 14, 2023
Messages
963
I bought Rain World a while back, due to same type of feedback from many other people. But only tried to play it once so far, and couldn't get into it yet. It's one of those games that are hard to get into, what the fuck, im playing some slug cat crawling through pipes, why am I doing this? But I do realize, if you put in the time, it's supposed to be amazing.
It's probably a lot like Stalker or Demon's souls where you hate it until you love it. I know that's how I've felt trying to get into it.
2005-2006 were very lackluster years already, then immediately afterwards the PS3 gen arrived and the industry will never fully recover from that generatio
I respectfully disagree on 2005 being lack luster. I did a quick check and there's so many good games if not classics coming out in 2005. Devil May cry 3, Zelda Minnish cap, KOTOR 2, MGS Ac!d, SMT Digital devil saga, Guild wars, Winter assault expansion for Dawn of war, F.E.A.R, Shadow of the colossus, Mario Kart DS, Codemned, Sonic Rush. Not games for everyone but hardly a wasteland of unplayable garbage like the 2020s have mostly been.
I agree with the indies part but AAAs were way worse in the 2005-2012 dark ages than nowadays, please be reminded that ~GOTY~ 2009 was Uncharted 2 and you can't possibly go deeper into popamole shit than that. I don't know how it happened but I'm happy so many single player game developers left health regen behind. Stuff like the Resident Evil 2 remake wouldn't have been possible in 2008, heck, STALKER SOC still has a reputation for being eurojank dating back to these days despite being more polished and less bloated than your average sandbox game today.
RE2 remake felt like survival horror really caught up to the possibilities technology allows.

Indies are kind of shit too. There's a few gems but complaining about woke games and saying indies are better is plain wrong. So many indie games are minimalist woke garbage or aren't even indies at all and claim the title for the art style.
 

El Presidente

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Messages
1,569
Location
Oval Office
I agree with the indies part but AAAs were way worse in the 2005-2012 dark ages than nowadays, please be reminded that ~GOTY~ 2009 was Uncharted 2 and you can't possibly go deeper into popamole shit than that. I don't know how it happened but I'm happy so many single player game developers left health regen behind. Stuff like the Resident Evil 2 remake wouldn't have been possible in 2008, heck, STALKER SOC still has a reputation for being eurojank dating back to these days despite being more polished and less bloated than your average sandbox game today.
Yes definitely, but would stuff like RE2 remake even be created in a world where indies didn't come along to plant these seeds of "hey those things were really great, why did they stop doing that?" across dozens of genres, with concrete examples of commercial successes, vocal fanbases and so on? Would health regen ever be dropped in a world where we'd only have AAA over AAA doubling down on it as the only way to go? With HP meters permanently dropped as frustrating relics of the unsophisticated past or whatever those people would tell each other. Maybe these are too much of a stretch, sure, but still, I really do believe one thing led to another. A good example of that would be Braid, which single handedly proved (alongside Portal, to be fair) that yes, there are people out there interested in puzzle games in the current year of 2008, how about that. Puzzle games were virtually dead for almost 10 years before that and flourished tremendously after that, which subsequently led to a revival in many other adventure subgenres like detective games, which in turn gave us Obra Dinn and Case of the Golden Idol, and so on and so forth. You kill the first event in the chain, who knows how different things would've turned out.

Without indies, the industry might've spiraled out of control into even worse PS3 gens after the original one, that's why I illustrated it that way. If we are to consider all the existing AAA games in our timeline and just remove the indies though, then absolutely, AAAs today are way, way better than PS3 gen ones. That generation was just AIDS in a bottle.
 

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