Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC

[Multidirectional]

Harder difficulties in Prey are typically plebeian "multiply hp and dmg of monsters by a lot hurrrrrr". Running on normal to make the game less tedious is a perfectly valid approach.

All that playing on highest difficulty does is make it last longer until you feel god-like. If you find the game tedious though I'm not sure you should be actually playing. My issue with it that's it fun but too easy, can't think of anything in it that I would call "tedious".

 

[ciox]

Raising the difficulty is not that impressive when it comes to improving the combat, the big blob enemies already have inflated HP to begin with since they're so clumsy and all the phantoms have very unpredictable attack patterns which doesn't combine that great with being able to kill you in 1-2 hits.
It seems the game follows the console rule for difficulty settings, where they can't boost the enemy counts too much or at all because it creates performance/q&a problems.

I played with a bunch of difficulty mods and the only one that really gave me trouble was the one that boosted neuromod costs so much that I couldn't even buy anything with that 1st neuromod you get in the glass case.
However the same mod randomized spawns so much that I was able to find fabrication plans for both of the self-destruct keys in random places and finish the game about 1/2 through the story.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

The game has shit enemy design / combat how does difficulty change anything? I mean if you feel like your cock is bigger by 2 inches just because your put "erect" as difficulty doesn't make the gameplay any less shit. This isn't dark souls. The game isn't "too easy" its just shit combat there is big difference between the two. You can make 10x hp/dmg mod and it will still be absolute shit despite being hard.

 

[RoSoDude]

Prey's difficulty settings are as follows, according to Joseph Anderson's testing:

Easy: 50% damage taken, 110% damage dealt
Normal: 100% damage taken, 100% damage dealt
Hard: 140% damage taken, 100% damage dealt
Nightmare: 160% damage taken, 80% damage dealt

Enemy HPs are unaltered. As are loot tables, resources in the environment, and fabricator costs AFAIK.

Joseph brings up the same problem I did in my earlier post regarding difficulty, which is that enemy damage is frequently unavoidable in direct combat, so the only truly viable strategy is to find the tool that effectively stunlocks each enemy type and then just unload into them. This means the difficulty setting barely affects the challenge the game has to offer at all, save for the fact that you could potentially shotgun and medkit spam your way through the easier difficulties (by contrast, I barely ever touched my huge stack of medkits on Nightmare because fights usually end with you dead in two hits or your enemies stunlocked to death before they can lay a scratch on you). While I don't think the lock and key-style design is bad inherently (in Shock, Deus Ex, Fallout etc. different ammo types accomplish this to a softer degree), I think Prey's particular flavor of combat is simply frustrating and not very engaging in terms of pure action, as it frequently boils down to just having enough GLOO canisters, stun gun batteries, or nullwave grenades in your ample inventory (or psi if you have any of the equivalent powers), which is never an issue thanks to how forgiving the game's resource economy is. What could maybe fix this? More readable attack animations, maybe the ability to dash with your jetpack to duck out of the way of attacks, and more meaningful character building and survival systems to force you to make tough choices between the get-out-of-combat-free cards I just listed. Of course, the game would still need a much larger overhaul to really approach greatness.

You know the game is good when GameSpot gives it a 6. Played it several hours and it's a good combination between Bioshock, Dead Space and Fallout. Also kudos for the engine, the game runs great on my 5 years old potato.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

...ever heard of System Shock?

 

[SkiNNyBane]

Pretty spot on RoSoDude

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

What could maybe fix this? More readable attack animations, maybe the ability to dash with your jetpack to duck out of the way of attacks, and more meaningful character building and survival systems to force you to make tough choices between the get-out-of-combat-free cards I just listed.

I remember looking at some webm clips of NuPrey on 8ch when the game was released and apparently that's what the dash slide mechanic was supposed to be used for. Especially against the phantom's psi blasts, which 9 times out of 10 you'd get hit if you tried to dodge the blasts laterally. You were supposed to run towards the psi blast, then do the slide and the blast would sail over your head. Since that seems like a risky/retarded thing to do it's understandable that nobody knew about that (including my self).

 

[Durandal]

Playing any modern AAA game on Normal and complaining it's too easy is just weird.. Unless you haven't played any modern AAA games.

Frankly most games that have good gameplay in terms of difficulty are perfectly fine to play on normal and the games that are braindead on normal just end up being mega tedious on hard. If you want to make shit combat even more shit by giving your enemies more hp thats your choice but thats exactly what "hard" does in AAA games. Better play them on easy so you don't have to deal with combat part of them at all or better yet watch cuscene compilation on youtube tbh.

Doesn't apply to Prey.

Harder difficulties in Prey are typically plebeian "multiply hp and dmg of monsters by a lot hurrrrrr". Running on normal to make the game less tedious is a perfectly valid approach.

It isn't a lot, it's enough for what a "normal" difficulty should be in a game like this.

Compare that to the difficulty settings in System Shock 2 where harder difficulties would reduce your base HP/PSI and reduce the amount of HP/PSI you get per endurance/magic upgrade, increase Replicator costs, increase upgrade costs, reduce enemy item drop chances, and make resource management more of a top priority than it ever was on Normal, whereas some chucklefuck at Arkane thought that it was combat that is the deciding factor for difficulty in a game where you're carrying loads of healing items and ammunition at any time, and thought that by making combat harder through making you weaker and the enemy more resilient would change the way the game is played and give hardcore players what they want.

Imagine that, how difficulty settings in Prey could affect item crafting costs, ramp up skill costs, and screw with your health and PSI in the same way SS2 did. That's not something I imagine is hard to mod.

 

[Edward The Mediocre]

You still gotta deal with the psi water side quest as well, since that really breaks the games economy once you complete it.

 

[ciox]

What could maybe fix this? More readable attack animations, maybe the ability to dash with your jetpack to duck out of the way of attacks, and more meaningful character building and survival systems to force you to make tough choices between the get-out-of-combat-free cards I just listed.

I remember looking at some webm clips of NuPrey on 8ch when the game was released and apparently that's what the dash slide mechanic was supposed to be used for. Especially against the phantom's psi blasts, which 9 times out of 10 you'd get hit if you tried to dodge the blasts laterally. You were supposed to run towards the psi blast, then do the slide and the blast would sail over your head. Since that seems like a risky/retarded thing to do it's understandable that nobody knew about that (including my self).

I've seen that in an official video, he also gets hit while doing it, so it's advertised pretty accurately.

 

[Urthor]

pretty sure the reason this game doesn't have DLC is that they finished the DLC ages ago, before release even, and are waiting for the game to sell enough units. Even Tranny got DLC.

 

[Ivan]

Just started this on Nightmare and having a great time. Something sticks out like a sore thumb though: the operators. Given that these are always in "safe" areas, aren't these a limitless source of healthpoints? I would have thought that they'd have a finite amount of juice but it seems like they're there forever, not only that but each station can summon 3? Very odd. Also, I don't know if this is true, but I've read that the ONLY way to get through the semi-barricaded doors is via the Alien Mug Transformation power? Pretty lame, considering I've been having great fun and success using explosive barrels to overcome moving heavy objects from doorways/passageways.


Edit: Does anyone know if it's possible to nullify the Turret-Alien's powers? I could have sworn I took him on early on and for some reason he wasn't using his projectile attack. He allowed me to whack him to death. Maybe b/c I shot him in his eye? It was the only time I was able to nullify it. Possibly a glitch.

 

[Icewater]

Turn off enemy powers: Nullwave grenade.

I didn't take any alien powers and I only remember finding one area during the game that I couldn't figure out any way into.

 

[fantadomat]

RoSoDude the stunlock was pretty easy in the game mate. You just had to hold attack with the wrench and then hit it a few times,then repeat the exorcise. That i why i find the wrench to be the most powerful weapon. I never used any other weapon for most of the enemy. For the big things i used the laser and for the exploding ones i used the pistol...and that is all i used. Never spend a point in powers,wanted to be a pure human.

 

[SkiNNyBane]

RoSoDude the stunlock was pretty easy in the game mate. You just had to hold attack with the wrench and then hit it a few times,then repeat the exorcise. That i why i find the wrench to be the most powerful weapon. I never used any other weapon for most of the enemy. For the big things i used the laser and for the exploding ones i used the pistol...and that is all i used. Never spend a point in powers,wanted to be a pure human.

And the human tree has the most broken perks so not sure why its relevant.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

All that playing on highest difficulty does is make it last longer until you feel god-like. If you find the game tedious though I'm not sure you should be actually playing. My issue with it that's it fun but too easy, can't think of anything in it that I would call "tedious".

Prey is not stellar by any means, but it is enjoyable in the same way pretty much every SS clone is enjoyable, even when dumbed down/consolized/whatever. Hp sponges, however, are never, ever, under any circumstances a good thing or a good way to provide difficulty. And Prey has some heavy hp bloat. I'm really not sure why stating the obvious is worth rating retarded, then again, lately this forum does have a percentage of people prone to butthurt over criticism of the latest console game they liked that would put more mainstream sites to shame.

It isn't a lot, it's enough for what a "normal" difficulty should be in a game like this.

I have to disagree, making a game difficult and punishing is all fine and dandy, but come up with something a bit more creative to achieve that please.

Enemy HPs are unaltered.

Interesting and if true it indeed means that the setting doesn't really have much impact on the actual difficulty. I only played the game once and on hard, so I automatically assumed that the big hp pools of anything outside of mimics comes from that.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The HP bloat (although tbh it mostly concerns just techno and telepants) is all the more ridiculous considering that all enemies have some obvious weakness that you can use to disable them and then spray 'em full of lead. Tazer or null wave grenade followed by a few shotgun blasts is p. much a hard counter to everything out there.

 

[RoSoDude]

RoSoDude the stunlock was pretty easy in the game mate. You just had to hold attack with the wrench and then hit it a few times,then repeat the exorcise. That i why i find the wrench to be the most powerful weapon. I never used any other weapon for most of the enemy. For the big things i used the laser and for the exploding ones i used the pistol...and that is all i used. Never spend a point in powers,wanted to be a pure human.

Reading comprehension? Where in my post did I ever say that stunlocking was hard? The point of my post was in fact to illustrate that the game doesn't offer meaningful challenge no matter the difficulty mode, since your options for stunlocking (the only viable strategy) are plentiful both in variety and abundance. For the record, the only psi power I got was Mimic Matter, which I expected to lead to a lot of emergent hide-and-seek fun with the Typhon but actually just me get into a few vents.

Staggering enemies with the wrench is similarly potent in System Shock 2, but it comes with the associated risk of taking chip damage from ranged enemies/groups and requires some finesse, since you have to find a window of opportunity to close the distance to your enemy to lay on the hurt before they can attack. In Prey, the problem is that enemy HP is so high, their damage so high and unavoidable, and cheesy tactics so optimal that it's never worth putting yourself at any risk. Your tools don't just give you an edge in combat (as rare but more powerful ammo types might), they outright trivialize it. Arkane painted themselves into this corner, as without such options, combat would devolve into even cheesier AI manipulation to avoid some of the blatantly cheap enemy behaviors.

While it sounds bad, the solution is actually less punishing and more punishable enemy behaviors alongside much less potent or rarer get-out-of-combat-free cards. If they had any sense, they'd make the rarity/fabricator cost of such items scale with difficulty level, as Durandal stated, as well as improve the survival and RPG systems. As it was, Arkane ended up making a Shock clone centered around open-ended (and easy) puzzles rather than tense do-or-die combat/resource management/character progression/exploration. They didn't get it entirely wrong, and there was a ton of potential (Mimics are a goddamn brilliant addition to the formula especially in the early game, the GLOO gun is fantastic, making the levels a bit more DX-like is an interesting direction, etc.), but ultimately it's tuned very wrong, and reeks of being rushed. I shouldn't be too surprised, since my criticisms of Dishonored are much the same in spirit.

 

[Jaedar]

Compare that to the difficulty settings in System Shock 2 where harder difficulties would reduce your base HP/PSI and reduce the amount of HP/PSI you get per endurance/magic upgrade, increase Replicator costs, increase upgrade costs, reduce enemy item drop chances, and make resource management more of a top priority than it ever was on Normal, whereas some chucklefuck at Arkane thought that it was combat that is the deciding factor for difficulty in a game where you're carrying loads of healing items and ammunition at any time, and thought that by making combat harder through making you weaker and the enemy more resilient would change the way the game is played and give hardcore players what they want.

Imagine that, how difficulty settings in Prey could affect item crafting costs, ramp up skill costs, and screw with your health and PSI in the same way SS2 did. That's not something I imagine is hard to mod.

SS2 did difficulty levels better than Prey but in truth, cutting your hp in half is not very different from doubling enemy damage. One shall also not forget that the humble wrench allows you to kill many enemies with zero resource investment, because they won't actually fire at point blank range (iirc: bots, midwives, shotgun hybrids, grenadiers).
Reducing xp points gained is also a nonfun kind of balance in my opinion, as it just means it is even better to take the strong skills (like standard weapons), while ignoring the less powerful options.

Increasing shop costs and decreasing drop rates(but iirc it doesn't really apply to the research organs, which is good) is very nice though.

Prey should have added reduced efficiency of the recyclers for sure, since the trivial mass production of both ammo and xp really snowballed you into having 2 full stacks of all healing items by the midgame.

 

[Durandal]

Compare that to the difficulty settings in System Shock 2 where harder difficulties would reduce your base HP/PSI and reduce the amount of HP/PSI you get per endurance/magic upgrade, increase Replicator costs, increase upgrade costs, reduce enemy item drop chances, and make resource management more of a top priority than it ever was on Normal, whereas some chucklefuck at Arkane thought that it was combat that is the deciding factor for difficulty in a game where you're carrying loads of healing items and ammunition at any time, and thought that by making combat harder through making you weaker and the enemy more resilient would change the way the game is played and give hardcore players what they want.

Imagine that, how difficulty settings in Prey could affect item crafting costs, ramp up skill costs, and screw with your health and PSI in the same way SS2 did. That's not something I imagine is hard to mod.

SS2 did difficulty levels better than Prey but in truth, cutting your hp in half is not very different from doubling enemy damage. One shall also not forget that the humble wrench allows you to kill many enemies with zero resource investment, because they won't actually fire at point blank range (iirc: bots, midwives, shotgun hybrids, grenadiers).
Reducing xp points gained is also a nonfun kind of balance in my opinion, as it just means it is even better to take the strong skills (like standard weapons), while ignoring the less powerful options.

Increasing shop costs and decreasing drop rates(but iirc it doesn't really apply to the research organs, which is good) is very nice though.

Prey should have added reduced efficiency of the recyclers for sure, since the trivial mass production of both ammo and xp really snowballed you into having 2 full stacks of all healing items by the midgame.

Instead of reduced HP I would have went with reduced medkit efficiency through either over-time healing (happens already in SS2, not in Prey) or a status ailment which causes you to overdose if you inject too much of the red and blue stuff which would happen sooner on higher difficulties.
An interesting solution would be to raise XP costs on higher difficulties for the more commonly used skills like most of the Standard Weapons, hacking, most PSI skills, though that's more or less acknowledging Exotic Weapons are just balanced poorly. Though higher skill costs for easier-to-use skill trees and lower costs for harder-to-use skills would be an interesting idea.

 

[Spectacle]

IMO the best way to add difficulty is to increase the amount of enemies, but of course that takes a lot more work than just tweaking a global damage % setting in an .ini file. Turning enemies into bullet sponges and the player into porcelain can certainly make a game harder, but it will often also make fighting less satisfying if the gameplay is designed around the "normal" damage values.

 

[Ivan]

Holy Shit, I'm the fuck outta this. Haven't felt this gratified with a AAA title in a while.

 

[Origin]

I finished the game in 40 hours, having explored every possible corner of Talos.

This game is seriously underrated. Probably best game in genre. Better then SS2, without a doubt.

 

[Origin]

I really don't want to say I'm disappointed in Prey so far (an hour in) because it's not System Shock 2, but goddamn is this game not System Shock 2, as much as it wants to be. It's also infinitely easier (on normal) than SS2, especially since I'm trying to be stealthy and the levels' "stealth routes" are so obvious they might as well have giant fucking signs on them. Hopefully I'll come around on it at some point.

You just can't get proper impression about this game in first few hours. This is probably the reason why game got average early reviews.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You just can't get proper impression about this game in first few hours.

true

because the 2nd half is a fucking disaster

 

[fantadomat]

You just can't get proper impression about this game in first few hours.

true

because the 2nd half is a fucking disaster

Yeah the second half is very empty because this is game for explorers and therefore they have explored everything possible. The second half is just running from point to point and doing quests.