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Random thoughts on whatever JRPG you're currently playing?

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,515
Apparently there’s 11 games in the series, so maybe one of them gets it right. I just don’t know which one, and this is the only translated one as far as I know.

If you don't like frontier then none.
All games after frontier use this game play template with barely any changes.
Pre frontier games are a mess.The first two are not even games but more vn/corruption games and two games after that are proto frontier with worse game play.

The automated combat and more focus on team composition then actual input in battles is something that eroge game love to do.
It is even present in alicseoft games.Especially the non rance games.

Edit:If you are interested in great gameplay eroge games,then kamidori alchemy meister fits the bill.
It can even give fire emblem a run for it money.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
PSP port of Persona:

Why is there an entire alternate route presented to the player 30 minutes into the game?
This random encounter rate seems really high.
I like the tone of the game a lot more after patching it to have the original PSX soundtrack instead of cut songs from Persona 3/4.
It's really weird that you pick one party member and have to stick it out with them for the rest of the game.

There's a lot more but my conclusion is "thank God for the speedup function of PPSSPP". I don't normally play JRPGs, and I went into this knowing that it would be a lot more like old school SMT as oppossed to modern Persona games, but some of the design choices feel baffling even by the standards of an SMT spinoff game from 1996.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,592
Location
The Khanate
Now imagine playing it on PSX with the questionable translation and even less information on top of being hella obtuse. I haven't rushed to play 1 myself, unsurprisingly, but it has its dedicated fans.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,357
I particularly like the eerie atmosphere in this current location - you enter an area known as the Dead Sea, only to find out it is rather literal - the waves are motionless and you walk on the water surrounding the ruins of a futuristic city with weird apparitions and hologram ghosts about and not a living soul in sight. The presentation is simply great.

There's a sense of desolation and wrongness permeating the whole area that isn't replicated anywhere else, it's easily one of the best locations in the Chrono series. Dead Sea would make for a great game setting by itself, being all about exploring the bits and pieces of a discarded future, never meant to be, surrounded by all the crushed hopes and dreams of its long gone habitants.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
Now imagine playing it on PSX with the questionable translation and even less information on top of being hella obtuse. I haven't rushed to play 1 myself, unsurprisingly, but it has its dedicated fans.

Apparently the PSX version cut out the Snow Queen path and lowered the random encounter rate (with higher EXP gain to compensate) so it would certainly be more uhh...straightforward to playthrough, barring the hilariously awful, Americanized translation. That would still leave bizarre and obtuse things like the Reiji recruitment method in the game, though. I'm enjoying the atmosphere a lot and I can see why there are dedicated fans of the game. Demons invading the town and everyone being forced to deal with it is very different to later games in the series, where shadows/demons are always relegated to a "secret world" and ordinary people only get to see the side effects of the story's events (Apathy Syndrome, murders, cognitive shutdown), rather than the actual magical goings-on. There's a lot of stuff in it that I'd like to see return from a tonal perspective, but I also understand that most of these things are in direct opposition to the mostly lighthearted social link/slice of life segments of Persona 3 onwards.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
502
Now imagine playing it on PSX with the questionable translation and even less information on top of being hella obtuse. I haven't rushed to play 1 myself, unsurprisingly, but it has its dedicated fans.

Apparently the PSX version cut out the Snow Queen path and lowered the random encounter rate (with higher EXP gain to compensate) so it would certainly be more uhh...straightforward to playthrough, barring the hilariously awful, Americanized translation. That would still leave bizarre and obtuse things like the Reiji recruitment method in the game, though. I'm enjoying the atmosphere a lot and I can see why there are dedicated fans of the game. Demons invading the town and everyone being forced to deal with it is very different to later games in the series, where shadows/demons are always relegated to a "secret world" and ordinary people only get to see the side effects of the story's events (Apathy Syndrome, murders, cognitive shutdown), rather than the actual magical goings-on. There's a lot of stuff in it that I'd like to see return from a tonal perspective, but I also understand that most of these things are in direct opposition to the mostly lighthearted social link/slice of life segments of Persona 3 onwards.

huh...two months ago i played a bit of Persona 1 PSX and i was surprised how much i enjoyed it,maybe because i came with low expectations ? anyway,the battles are slow but the random encounters are nowhere as bad as people say.I didn't play much though,only like 8 hours,one day i'll go back to it and make my mind about the game since i planning to play every SMT game.

this song though:

 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
huh...two months ago i played a bit of Persona 1 PSX and i was surprised how much i enjoyed it,maybe because i came with low expectations ? anyway,the battles are slow but the random encounters are nowhere as bad as people say.I didn't play much though,only like 8 hours,one day i'll go back to it and make my mind about the game since i planning to play every SMT game.

I'm enjoying myself but the game is certainly more "interesting" than it is outright fun. The random encounter rate either varies by dungeon, or is just noitceably more frustrating in others. It didn't bother me at all until I got to the Kama Palace (about Level 25 if you never reached it), which features a properly mazelike layout with routes which take you in the wrong direction and eventually loop you back to the start of the dungeon, spanning across multiple floors. So you're going in the wrong direction, have no inkling of it until you reach the 7th floor and realise you've been TRICKED, have to trudge your way back to the start so you can do it all again, and during all of this you're being harassed by random encounters which don't even have the decency to be brainlessly easy. They're not hard, but sticking enemies weak to elemental and enemies who absorb it 100% in the same random encounters adnauseam is almost like a step too far. Don't make me think.

I'm not used to dungeon crawlers, though. My closest experience with the genre is Daggerfall, and in that game shit stays dead when you've killed it, so backtracking or being turned around isn't bad at all apart from losing some time. It's not like you have to deal with more enemies, just running through some hallways.
 
Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
502
I quit at the SEBEC building so i have no idea what you talking about,but if the random encounters gets crazy high in later dungeons like you said then this could definitely change my opinion about the game since the battles are damn slow.
 

Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,592
Location
The Khanate
Both 1 and 2 are unfortunate victims of shoddy port handling by Atlus. I'd probably recommend the PSX version of IS despite lacking some of the improvements of the PSP port, solely due to it probably providing at least some challenge if EP is anything to go by.

I know they nerfed the final dungeon of 1 a bit in the PSP remake, whereas the original PSX localization made the game slightly easier while failing to account for the reduced money gain from having less encounters. But then it goes and fucks up the sound design and OST, changing the game's atmosphere...
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
There's a readily available patch which adds the original OST back into the game for the PSP port so it's not too much of an issue. I'd say that's the ideal way to play the game, if any such way does exist.

You can find it under 'Other Mods' here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaten/wiki/fan_translated_works

I quit at the SEBEC building so i have no idea what you talking about,but if the random encounters gets crazy high in later dungeons like you said then this could definitely change my opinion about the game since the battles are damn slow.

The SEBEC dungeon is pretty reasonable, as were all the dungeons before it and also the next dungeon after it. That stuff is straightfroward.
 
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Blink

Prospernaut
Batshit Crazy
Joined
Nov 26, 2016
Messages
256
Location
Taiwan
pc version of persona 1 with psp music is best
most of the tracks in the original sucked
bloody destiny was better than bloodline
devil survivor is a piece of shit
smt:v will never come out and you know it.
its my lone prayer!
 

aweigh

Arcane
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,939
Location
Florida
I love PSX version of Persona 1. Great jrpg, and much superior to the horrible PSP port. I've sperged out before about this in other threads, I think it was in the Persona 5 thread? Can't remember now.

As bad as the PSX translation was it still ends up being better than the PSP re-translation. I posted some examples and comparisons showing why in my post about this in the Persona 5 thread. PSX translation has more typos and more obvious errors but it gets across better characterizations than what's in the awful re-translated script.

Needless to say the obliteration of the soundtrack and all of the sound effects completely killed the wonderful atmosphere in the game, and that's probably the biggest sin in the PSP port. It completely sucked out all of what made the game unique. Also Mark will always be black :)

Man, PSP port of Persona 1 was just butchered to hell and back, they completely destroyed the soul of that game.
 

Deflowerer

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2013
Messages
1,970
There's a readily available patch which adds the original OST back into the game for the PSP port so it's not too much of an issue. I'd say that's the ideal way to play the game, if any such way does exist.

You can find it under 'Other Mods' here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaten/wiki/fan_translated_works

I quit at the SEBEC building so i have no idea what you talking about,but if the random encounters gets crazy high in later dungeons like you said then this could definitely change my opinion about the game since the battles are damn slow.

The SEBEC dungeon is pretty reasonable, as were all the dungeons before it and also the next dungeon after it. That stuff is straightfroward.

Unfortunately, the OST of the PSP port was also cut down significantly. The patch replaces the PSP OST, but it cannot add back all the songs that were originally featured.

Better than nothing, of course.

As for the annoying random encounters, the whole trick in P1 is to negotiate the enemies that don't fit the current party's strengths away. In fact, I am even confident that it is possible to do a negotiations-only playthrough of the whole game with the exception of bosses of course. Unlike SMT games, the personality traits of the demons are also revealed to you.
 
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Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,592
Location
The Khanate
Beat
Dario
in Chrono Cross. Damn, an actual challenging boss! Not exactly superboss tier in terms of sheer difficulty, but rather design. He would always respond to offensive elements by using a preset opposite element against the last member to hit him - so not necessarily the one who used the element. Blue and red were "safe" in that he'd only use debuffs in response, while white elements (his weakness) would be responded to with a 'fuck you' tier black move which would certainly one shot anyone. The trick was to equip black draining armor and bait those attacks, which required some preplanning of attacks as bad luck with hits or simply attacking at every opportunity might leave the party at low stamina and with no one able to cast any appropriate element before the boss' turn, leading him to autoattack if lucky, or use an element to one shot someone - and I only had one revive to spare. All of this is made more difficult to predict by the game's omission of a turn order indicator - you have to gauge by feel how many attacks you can get in before the boss' turn. It felt like a dance which is also the impression I've gotten from difficulty bosses in other JRPGs.
The reward was a damn fine sword which may even be the protag's ultimate weapon, not sure yet.

Missing out on the element absorbing armor is also easy to do as it is pillaged from the dragon bosses which one might not think to attempt. Those dragons were also a small bump in difficulty - in that I actually had to plan out what elements I brought and on whom. I think they were a bit cautious with boss HP - any boss I've fought so far could have had their HP increased by 25% and that would have been more than fine.
 

Reality

Learned
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
263
Chrono cross is a game that should be interesting on a system level with the turn elements and the color field but I feel like the systems are wasted on the low difficulty of the enemies. Especially once you you have things like the autocratical weapons, the game just starts to devolve into the beatstick+healer approach.
 

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
2,515
Beat
Dario
in Chrono Cross. Damn, an actual challenging boss! Not exactly superboss tier in terms of sheer difficulty, but rather design. He would always respond to offensive elements by using a preset opposite element against the last member to hit him - so not necessarily the one who used the element. Blue and red were "safe" in that he'd only use debuffs in response, while white elements (his weakness) would be responded to with a 'fuck you' tier black move which would certainly one shot anyone. The trick was to equip black draining armor and bait those attacks, which required some preplanning of attacks as bad luck with hits or simply attacking at every opportunity might leave the party at low stamina and with no one able to cast any appropriate element before the boss' turn, leading him to autoattack if lucky, or use an element to one shot someone - and I only had one revive to spare. All of this is made more difficult to predict by the game's omission of a turn order indicator - you have to gauge by feel how many attacks you can get in before the boss' turn. It felt like a dance which is also the impression I've gotten from difficulty bosses in other JRPGs.
The reward was a damn fine sword which may even be the protag's ultimate weapon, not sure yet.

Missing out on the element absorbing armor is also easy to do as it is pillaged from the dragon bosses which one might not think to attempt. Those dragons were also a small bump in difficulty - in that I actually had to plan out what elements I brought and on whom. I think they were a bit cautious with boss HP - any boss I've fought so far could have had their HP increased by 25% and that would have been more than fine.

Yup,it is serge's ultimate weapon.
Also you should go to one of the dragon isles in another world,there is a surprise waiting for you.
Don't answer his questions since you get nothing,just kick his ass.And you can steal something nice from him.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
2,710
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Found my old R4 card for my DS and booted up a slate of old RPGs:

-Golden Sun Dark Dawn - Simple but fun game, gorgeous graphics and flashy combats with tons of beautiful spells, summons, and special attacks going off left and right. I enjoyed how the story featured children of the previous game's heroes, I wish more games would do this. Djinn collecting is fun as a way to power up your team and with eight characters there are tons of ways to customize everyone.

Game's biggest problem is it is way too easy, you barely need to even try. It's like they balanced the game for players who somehow miss every single djinn, so if you optimize your team at all the game turns into a joke. Could really use a hard mode. Series seems to have died here, too bad, if Nintendo announced a Golden Sun game for the Switch I'd probably buy one.

-Sands of Destruction - I seem to be stuck on a boss here. The game is saved right before a mandatory boss fight with a dude who turns into giant boar. I can't beat him and I can't go back to level anywhere. I remember this being fun but with a lot of unintuitive character customization options. I'd probably have to start it over.

-Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2 - I didn't get far in this and I think I remember why. The Bazaar system from FF12 is used here as the only way to unlock new items, which you need to unlock new abilities for your characters and new classes. This combined with the RNG drop system (four different items per enemy) and the semi-randomized missions makes it really hard to get the one piece of goblin anus or chocobo taint you need to get the sword you want to get the next skill. I miss the original FF Tactics JP shop.

-SaGa 3 - Fan translation of a remake of the old GB game, which I also owned. I must have installed and played this a bit more recently because I think it's only been available for a few years. The one black sheep of the SaGa franchise, remade as a 'proper' entry without levels and with techs and such. Keeps the original game's mutation system; when you kill enemies you can eat their meat (heh) to transform into a monster or install robot parts to become a cyborg. Music is all the same too. I got 3-4 hours into this and seemed to be progressing, dunno why I quit.

-Infinite Space - I loved this game. Its kind of a VN/Space RPG. The plot is standard space opera mixed with ancient alien mysteries but goddamn is it ever epic. It also does something really cool--a ten year time skip in the middle of the story. All the characters grow and change, often dramatically. Half the people from the first part of the game die so you have to rebuild most of your crew. Tons of branching story paths and consequential decisions.

Combat is pretty simple. You can field a fleet of five ships but they all act together. It's a little disappointing that you can't manually control each ship individually, that would have been a more complex and tactical combat system. Instead the game puts you in the role of a fleet commander, you only make broad decisions and let your crew handle the rest. It works though and battles are quite fast. You have an ATB gauge that fills up, at 1/3 you can do a single volley with all ships' weapons or take evasive maneuvers, at 2/3 full you can do a barrage of three volleys at reduced accuracy. Dodging will avoid a barrage most of the time and enemies will often queue a dodge while waiting for their own ATB, so its a risk-reward thing. You can also close in on enemy ships and board them but this is almost never useful as it takes way longer and gives no greater rewards. Partway through the game you get fighters, these will intercept and battle enemy fighters; whichever group wins will go on to harass the enemy fleet for small damage over time.

That's the idea anyway, in practice its easy to build a fleet of battleships/carriers and deploy more fighters than the AI can ever deal with, ripping their fleets to shreds while you twiddle your thumbs. It makes the game a complete joke, but no one ever said war was fair! There are a few other special moves depending on crew but none of them really matter. Speaking of crew, there are tons of crew members to acquire, all unique, all with their own skills, and all of them can level up. You have a couple dozen crew spots to fill and knowing who to put where isn't easy. The game's mechanics are really obtuse and guides online don't help. It took me awhile to figure out having all Control positions filled with the best crew was ideal since that has the biggest affect on ATB speed.

The last thing is the game's presentation is fantastic, especially in combat. There are these sweeping, dramatic scenes whenever you launch a barrage accompanied by wonderful and varied 'bridge babble' from the crew, which really plays up the anime/star trek feel of the game. You can skip all these to speed up battles and they do get repetitive, but they always made me smile whenever I watched them. Overall this game just feels way too huge for the tiny platform it is on, if it got a remake or sequel on a proper platform with accompanying gfx and tech I think it would be spectacular.
 
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Puukko

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2015
Messages
3,592
Location
The Khanate
I'm wondering how, if even possible, Chrono Cross could incentivize making greater use of the roster of characters. It already makes it easy to allocate elements, but I find myself limited by the number of good elements and accessories. These can of course be traded between members, but keeping a roster of say, a dozen active characters while only having good gear for half as many would quickly get tedious. The most limiting aspect are the stat ups from battles - every additional character you try to maintain means those will be spread increasingly thin. Now the game is not difficult enough as to where those stat ups would be the difference between beating a boss and losing to it, but most RPG fans would hate to see valuable stats be spread inefficiently and the game would certainly benefit from extra challenge. I've found myself focusing on 4-5 characters at a time, so a whopping 10% of the cast. I wouldn't necessarily cut this number down a lot, but the mascot characters would definitely go. Besides that, having a fourth party member and/or non mandatory MC could work, but I know permanent character models on the screen have a big impact on performance for a PSX game, and the battles already run at a low framerate as it is.

I wonder how Suikoden handled this.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
4,884
I wonder how Suikoden handled this.

On top of what Grampy_Bone said you also have to keep in mind Suikoden has six characters in combat which automatically means you need to use more of them to fill the slots. Also, experience gain is such that when you reach a new area previously under-leveled characters basically need couple of fights only to be up to par with your main character effectively making level grinding non-existent. One could argue REAL grind in Suikoden games is money if you intend to equip all 70+ combat characters, but this is something most simply will not do and if you choose to there are ways to procure funds like gambling mini-games. One negative side of the series is how it tends to force characters on you for story purposes meaning games will keep rotating party members giving you limited freedom in setting up your party until much later. I assume this is done to A) cover up the fact it takes a while for you to actually gather a roster of characters and B) to actually give you the opportunity to try out newcomers.

I remember when Suikoden 2 straddles you with a subpar character for first wake up boss fight and you just need to work with it. Not helped by the fact games don't even pretend they have a balanced roster.

20231.png
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
2,710
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
I feel like most Suikoden games dole out units in order of power, more or less. You don't get Georg Prime until late in the game. So no OP team on disc 1.

Suikoden 3 was unique in that it had 3 MCs who all have their own team. Some characters were recruitable across teams, so there was some strategy in trying to balance out all the groups.

Suikoden 4 was unique in the series for being absolute trash, and shouldn't be played, because it sucks.
 

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