Random thoughts on whatever JRPG you're currently playing?

[flyingjohn]

I'm wondering how, if even possible, Chrono Cross could incentivize making greater use of the roster of characters. It already makes it easy to allocate elements, but I find myself limited by the number of good elements and accessories. These can of course be traded between members, but keeping a roster of say, a dozen active characters while only having good gear for half as many would quickly get tedious. The most limiting aspect are the stat ups from battles - every additional character you try to maintain means those will be spread increasingly thin. Now the game is not difficult enough as to where those stat ups would be the difference between beating a boss and losing to it, but most RPG fans would hate to see valuable stats be spread inefficiently and the game would certainly benefit from extra challenge. I've found myself focusing on 4-5 characters at a time, so a whopping 10% of the cast. I wouldn't necessarily cut this number down a lot, but the mascot characters would definitely go. Besides that, having a fourth party member and/or non mandatory MC could work, but I know permanent character models on the screen have a big impact on performance for a PSX game, and the battles already run at a low framerate as it is.

I wonder how Suikoden handled this.

They could have done a couple of things:

-Make 4 party system instead of 3
-Make each character have unique bonuses
-Have 10 times the amount of dual/triple techs(this one is so confusing since chrono trigger already solved that problem)
-Have characters have uses beyond combat.This is already present with zappa,i don't know why they didn't build upon it.
-Have temporary characters connected to your current objective and worlds. Again,Harle is already a thing,so...
-Have characters have different element grids entirely,not just the amount.They could have easily created a random system to do this.

The biggest problem is that stamina recovery as a stat dictates if the character is good or not.Couple that with serge/lynx being unremovable and your choice of characters if you want to experiment goes down even more.
Also originally they were going for 60+ characters,just great.

Edit:Here is a Kato interview to explain the problem:
"Where did inspiration for such over-the-top characters as Pierre, Mojo, Macha, Turnip, and Van come from?
Take Pierre, for example: we started off by saying we wanted a wacko fake hero like Tata from Trigger. We also said things like "we need at least one powerful mom," "no way we're gonna go without a twisted brat," and so on so forth. Basically a bunch of selfish wishes (laugh). Also, the staff as a whole came up with many ideas of what types of characters we wanted to put in the party. Mojo was actually a test 3D model of a doll made by one of our staff early in development. I decided, based on personal taste, "This guy's cool. Let's make him join the party!" Everyone probably thought I was just making a joke, though (laugh)."

So basically they thought of wacky/interesting characters to put in a a gme and then later though how to actually implement them properly,it didn't work.

 

[Puukko]

Chrono Cross beat. It got easy towards the end and the second to final boss had the whole elemental phases thing, like Brahman from DDS2, except he mostly used shitty elements. And then the true final boss had a gimmick for getting the good ending. Eh...

The story got way too convoluted for its own good, especially with how it was tied to Trigger. Yeah, just throw all those time traveling and dimension hopping concepts in there like a fruit salad.

Then again, weak endings seem to be a JRPG staple.

 

[Reality]

Chrono Cross is ripe for parody since the main villain's problem is that he locked himself out of his house and all he wants is to get back in.

The fact that the process of getting in involves possession and a time travelling war between robots and dinosaurs is just there to show how simple things spiral out of proportion.

 

[SecondAmendment]

The amount of good vibes related to Chrono Cross in this thread fills my heart with warmth on a cold day.

CC is flawed, true. It's not the bestest at anything, but what makes it one of the greats in JRPG circles is the sense of discovery and of delight in exploration of the game and its world. The colorful graphics, the amazing soundtrack, the plot twists with big character changes, the complex and rewarding combat system, and the interactions between the Home and Another worlds are all reasons why CC endures as one of the greatest games of its era.

If you like CC, I reccomend you try Xenoblade Chronocles 2. It has a very similar feel. There is a vast cast of characters to recruit (albeit RNG ruins some of the fun), gorgeous worlds to explore, an emotive & complex story, quality soundtrack featuring Yasunori Mitsuda and his droogs, and last but not least the most enjoyable and complex combat system I have seen in any RPG.

 

[Puukko]

XC2 is on my list, but only once it can be emulated.

Right now I'm seriously considering Xenosaga.

 

[flyingjohn]

XC2 is on my list, but only once it can be emulated.

Right now I'm seriously considering Xenosaga.

Oh boy,if you though cc was convoluted,this is a on a whole new level.
It also is somewhat rushed since they had to cut two episodes because of bad sales.

 

[Puukko]

Yup, I know and I think I'm prepared.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

XC2 is on my list, but only once it can be emulated.

Right now I'm seriously considering Xenosaga.

I'd skip Xenosaga in favor of Xenogears, unless you've already played it.

 

[Sigourn]

Ys Chronicles+
The Turbografx-CD simply shits all over this.

1. Better artstyle.
2. Better music.
3. MUCH better combat.
4. And rooms are actually liten up, which is a retarded change Falcom pulled in Chronicles since the awful hit detection+poorly lit rooms makes for exasperating combat.

Still I'm near the end of Darm Tower playing in Nightmare, going to see what all the fuss regarding Dark Fact is about.

 

[Puukko]

XC2 is on my list, but only once it can be emulated.

Right now I'm seriously considering Xenosaga.

I'd skip Xenosaga in favor of Xenogears, unless you've already played it.

That's on my list, but I think I'd rather play something on the PS2 right now. And what I've heard of disc 2 doesn't exactly woo me over.

What I'm wondering is how viable skipping Xenosaga 2 and just playing 1 and 3 would be...

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Don't think you can skip Xenosaga 2 if you hope to make sense of the story.

 

[Cromwell]

fuss regarding Dark Fact is about.

nothing in your version.

What I'm wondering is how viable skipping Xenosaga 2 and just playing 1 and 3 would be...

In europe 3 came with an extra dvd with all the cutscenes because 1 and 2 were never released.

 

[Silentstorm]

Have you played Ys V yet?

From what i remember, you were on Ys IV and now you're playing the remakes of the first two games?

If so...meh, probably should go for Ys V afterwards or since you came back to the first two, play Ys Origin after since it's the closest thing to a prequel those games have, and one of two times Adol isn't the main character in a Ys game, and unlike Ys Strategy, Origin is actually canon.

Also, after Ys, the closest series to it that Falcom has made is Zwei, only two games, also action rpgs, the only big twist is that you don't get EXP through fighting but by eating, finding ingredients and cooking them is the only way to level up, and yes, this leads to something like having an expensive dish in your inventory to eat during a boss fight so you can level up and heal completely, at least i did this in Zwei II.

Oh, and while both games happen in the same setting, they have different main characters, the cast from the first game appear in the second one, but they mostly only reference some events and it's a way of saying these guys have a lot of experience fighting, but the first game isn't required to play the second.

 

[Sigourn]

Have you played Ys V yet?

I started playing Ys V but I quickly realized it was way, way too different than anything else in the franchise and honestly not worth my time...
Like, I could say the same about Ys III, but Ys V felt like a massive waste of time, just bland all around, none of that classic Ys charm found in every other title, including Mak of the Sun.

Also, after Ys, the closest series to it that Falcom has made is Zwei, only two games, also action rpgs, the only big twist is that you don't get EXP through fighting but by eating, finding ingredients and cooking them is the only way to level up, and yes, this leads to something like having an expensive dish in your inventory to eat during a boss fight so you can level up and heal completely, at least i did this in Zwei II.

Oh, and while both games happen in the same setting, they have different main characters, the cast from the first game appear in the second one, but they mostly only reference some events and it's a way of saying these guys have a lot of experience fighting, but the first game isn't required to play the second.

Interesting. I was planning to play Ark of Napishtim after the I & II remakes but I'll follow your advice and play Origin instead.

 

[Damned Registrations]

And what I've heard of disc 2 doesn't exactly woo me over.

The disc 2 scene gets way more flak than it deserves. It comes after an incredibly long, grueling dungeon and a boss fight to match, either of which would outdo most jrpg endgames. And while it's a huge narrative dump, it's an interesting one. I think a lot of people who hate on it didn't experience it back in the day, but rather blitzed through all the combat with frameskipping and got bored because their last plot dump was minutes ago, rather than hours.

It's not exactly good pacing, but it's certainly not the worst mistake ever people make it out to be. I've certainly played a lot of games with far more tedious sections that nobody remarks on despite the game in general being well regarded.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

The developers were told to cut everything after disc one and ship it, but Tetsuya begged for Disc 2, the result was the compromise. It's not pretty but it's still better than the abortion of Xenosaga eps 2/3.

Considering all you really miss out on is Crescens and Siebzein omnigears (sad) and some more sidequests it's not the end of the world.

 

[Grauken]

Yeah, just throw all those time traveling and dimension hopping concepts in there like a fruit salad.

 

[Exhuminator]

I've got about 25 hours in Rogue Galaxy (PS2) at the moment. Holy shit did Xenoblade Chronicles rip the shit off of this game.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I thought Dark Cloud 2 was better.

 

[Exhuminator]

I thought Dark Cloud 2 was better.

It might be, I own DC2 but not played it yet. I have finished the original DC though... it was "OK".

 

[Grampy_Bone]

t might be, I own DC2 but not played it yet.

Maybe it's because Rogue Galaxy has such long stretches of dungeon crawling, DC2 broke things up between dungeons and building your town. That and Rogue galaxy combat seemed to boil down to spamming special moves/spells. It did have large roster of characters compared to DC2's two mains.

But in DC2, every time you complete a level you get to play a round of golf in the dungeon!

 

[Exhuminator]

Rogue galaxy combat seemed to boil down to spamming special moves/spells.

Very true. Let's see, I can spend two minutes jumping around and slashing and shooting, or I can just cast Desert Wind V2. Hmm, what's it gonna be?

every time you complete a level you get to play a round of golf in the dungeon!

If it's mini-golf, then that's a GOAT right there.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Playing Suikoden 2 for the first time,loving the game,perfect sequel to Suikoden 1 in my opinion.



The Greenhill part was really fun,gave me Harry Potter vibes for some reason,also make me wonder why there isn't a JRPG inspired by Harry Potter.Like,you're in this huge medieval and mysterious wizard school,and the game focus on characters interactions and everyday there'll be a different quest to do or a mystery to solve with your colleagues.

Anyway,Suikoden 2 is good stuff.

 

[Ysaye]

Playing Suikoden 2 for the first time,loving the game,perfect sequel to Suikoden 1 in my opinion.



The Greenhill part was really fun,gave me Harry Potter vibes for some reason,also make me wonder why there isn't a JRPG inspired by Harry Potter.Like,you're in this huge medieval and mysterious wizard school,and the game focus on characters interactions and everyday there'll be a different quest to do or a mystery to solve with your colleagues.

Anyway,Suikoden 2 is good stuff.

Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel 1 is sort of like that, based in a College Town, with the "old schoolhouse building" serving as as a mysterious dungeon that has to be explored, as well as general interactions with the other academy students, broken up by field excursions to other places.

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

Managed to buy a new sealed copy of Tears to Tiara II: Heir of the Overlord for PS3. Going to start playing it once I finish the game I'm currently busy with. Looking forward to it