PorkyThePaladin
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2013
- Messages
- 5,198
RPG combat has always been shitty for the most part, with a few exceptions, but back in the day, it wasn't such a big deal. When you look the graphics of an Ultima V, or a Wizardry 2, or a Betrayal at Krondor, well everything looks like an abstract blob or some squiggly lines or whatever, so what if the combat is kinda simple and dull? We had the glorious future to look forward to.
But these days, the hardware and game engines have gotten to the point where games are beautiful and almost photorealistic, there is physics and detailed sound effects, and complex animations. Together, all these things create a very realistic virtual world, that you just want to get lost in. Until your retard character starts fighting.
Graphics and physics and audio are pretty simple to understand. If your game features corrupted textures, anyone can see that, even a game developer, and realize that something is off. If the character's hand is pulled by gravity up that character's ass, even a Bethesda employee will realize that the physics need to be adjusted.
But combat is a bit trickier. You can't just understand medieval combat (on which fantasy combat is based) by simply breathing. You might actually have to do some research, some reading, some video watching. Which is where we get into trouble with Bethesda/Bioware/CDProjekt employees.
When technology was so primitive in 1992, it didn't matter that Ultima underworld had a simple melee attack system. But when you have fully 3D games with gorgeous graphics and in-depth physics, it is immensely frustrating to see completely unrealistic and illiterate combat design that game devs just seem to pull out of their ass.
Take Witcher 2. Its combat consists of alternately spamming rolls, 1-2 OP signs, and attacks. What kind of an idiot thought that constantly rolling around would work in medieval combat? I am not even talking about the wisdom of rolling on hard ground and in hard armor, with multiple sharp objects on your back which might or might not end up impregnating you, but just use some logic. The person attacking just has to move their hands a little bit to move their entire weapon (sword, spear, whatever) a large distance. Obviously moving your entire body out of the way would take longer. Which is why the principal ways of defending yourself in medieval times were blocking (with shield) and parrying (with weapon), since those can also be done with hand/arm movement and just as quickly as attacks, while also keeping the person upright and able to counter-attack.
Yes, yes, I realize it's fantasy, but the point of fantasy is to introduce the fantastical into the common, not replace common with the idiotic. People in good fantasy works don't walk on their heads or eat with their ass. Logic and physics are still generally followed. I don't recall Bilbo and Brand rolling 30 times around the Smaug. The only reason rolling spam against larger monsters works in some of these shitty RPGs is because of braindead enemy AI.
So I install the Witcher 2 combat rebalance mod. This little gem replaces the brain-dead parrying system, where you could just hold the parry indefinitely and for some magical reason, enemies would still hit into it. Think about that for a sec. You hold a very thin piece of metal above you, and instead of cutting you open by hitting the 99% of space around it, every enemy hits that exact blade to prevent themselves from doing any damage. This is called the Oblivion parry, in honor of the first brilliant RPG that implemented parries like this. The rebalance mod took it out altogether and made parrying automatic. I guess no parry is better than shitty parry. And it lessened the importance of rolling by replacing it in many circumstances with dancing. Now, the witcher just dances around enemies, performing pointless, time-consuming movements that expose his back to attack and waste time. But he has no choice, since the combat system is so badly designed, 1v1 or 1v2 would be like NPC abuse, so the only way to keep things flowing is to have 1v20 fights where you have to play keep-away.
Things have gotten so bad that Dark Souls, which is itself deeply flawed in its combat system, seems like a paragon of light unto the unwashed masses. This is a game where for some reason you can't parry with a 2-handed weapon, but can do so with a bare hand. But hey, compared to Oblivion-Skyrim/Witcher series, it is pretty damn good, as a cabbage soup would be after years of starvation.
If there are any RPG devs reading this, seriously, it's time to do some research. There are millions of videos on youtube right now regarding HEMA combat. This is people who practice medieval european combat, read the medieval manuscripts, play around with weapons and armor, and make videos of it. Sometimes they make videos making fun of shitty RPG medieval combat. They are actually very nice about it, saying it's a game, and all that, but they are only saying that cause they are nice. RPG combat doesn't have to be 100% realistic, but we are now well in the uncanny valley territory, where photorealstic and otherwise well-animated characters are just doing weird shit.
tldr: Writers research their topic before writing about it, otherwise they look pretty stupid. Game designers need to research the stuff they design as well.
But these days, the hardware and game engines have gotten to the point where games are beautiful and almost photorealistic, there is physics and detailed sound effects, and complex animations. Together, all these things create a very realistic virtual world, that you just want to get lost in. Until your retard character starts fighting.
Graphics and physics and audio are pretty simple to understand. If your game features corrupted textures, anyone can see that, even a game developer, and realize that something is off. If the character's hand is pulled by gravity up that character's ass, even a Bethesda employee will realize that the physics need to be adjusted.
But combat is a bit trickier. You can't just understand medieval combat (on which fantasy combat is based) by simply breathing. You might actually have to do some research, some reading, some video watching. Which is where we get into trouble with Bethesda/Bioware/CDProjekt employees.
When technology was so primitive in 1992, it didn't matter that Ultima underworld had a simple melee attack system. But when you have fully 3D games with gorgeous graphics and in-depth physics, it is immensely frustrating to see completely unrealistic and illiterate combat design that game devs just seem to pull out of their ass.
Take Witcher 2. Its combat consists of alternately spamming rolls, 1-2 OP signs, and attacks. What kind of an idiot thought that constantly rolling around would work in medieval combat? I am not even talking about the wisdom of rolling on hard ground and in hard armor, with multiple sharp objects on your back which might or might not end up impregnating you, but just use some logic. The person attacking just has to move their hands a little bit to move their entire weapon (sword, spear, whatever) a large distance. Obviously moving your entire body out of the way would take longer. Which is why the principal ways of defending yourself in medieval times were blocking (with shield) and parrying (with weapon), since those can also be done with hand/arm movement and just as quickly as attacks, while also keeping the person upright and able to counter-attack.
Yes, yes, I realize it's fantasy, but the point of fantasy is to introduce the fantastical into the common, not replace common with the idiotic. People in good fantasy works don't walk on their heads or eat with their ass. Logic and physics are still generally followed. I don't recall Bilbo and Brand rolling 30 times around the Smaug. The only reason rolling spam against larger monsters works in some of these shitty RPGs is because of braindead enemy AI.
So I install the Witcher 2 combat rebalance mod. This little gem replaces the brain-dead parrying system, where you could just hold the parry indefinitely and for some magical reason, enemies would still hit into it. Think about that for a sec. You hold a very thin piece of metal above you, and instead of cutting you open by hitting the 99% of space around it, every enemy hits that exact blade to prevent themselves from doing any damage. This is called the Oblivion parry, in honor of the first brilliant RPG that implemented parries like this. The rebalance mod took it out altogether and made parrying automatic. I guess no parry is better than shitty parry. And it lessened the importance of rolling by replacing it in many circumstances with dancing. Now, the witcher just dances around enemies, performing pointless, time-consuming movements that expose his back to attack and waste time. But he has no choice, since the combat system is so badly designed, 1v1 or 1v2 would be like NPC abuse, so the only way to keep things flowing is to have 1v20 fights where you have to play keep-away.
Things have gotten so bad that Dark Souls, which is itself deeply flawed in its combat system, seems like a paragon of light unto the unwashed masses. This is a game where for some reason you can't parry with a 2-handed weapon, but can do so with a bare hand. But hey, compared to Oblivion-Skyrim/Witcher series, it is pretty damn good, as a cabbage soup would be after years of starvation.
If there are any RPG devs reading this, seriously, it's time to do some research. There are millions of videos on youtube right now regarding HEMA combat. This is people who practice medieval european combat, read the medieval manuscripts, play around with weapons and armor, and make videos of it. Sometimes they make videos making fun of shitty RPG medieval combat. They are actually very nice about it, saying it's a game, and all that, but they are only saying that cause they are nice. RPG combat doesn't have to be 100% realistic, but we are now well in the uncanny valley territory, where photorealstic and otherwise well-animated characters are just doing weird shit.
tldr: Writers research their topic before writing about it, otherwise they look pretty stupid. Game designers need to research the stuff they design as well.