Vapourware Realms Beyond: Ashes of the Fallen - Chaos Chronicles reborn and dead again

[Serus]

Bard's Tale was based on a blobber which is a very specific subgenre which definitely does not have so much of a following as isometric turn based CRPGs.
Plus the Bard's Tale franchise was not even THAT famous back in its day

Dunno about that. Quoting from Wikipedia (yeah, yeah...):

The Bard's Tale was very successful, becoming the best-selling computer RPG of the 1980s at 407,000 copies. It was the first non-Wizardry computer role-playing game to challenge the Ultima series' sales, especially to Commodore 64 users who could not play Wizardry (a Commodore version did not appear until 1987, with inferior graphics to that of The Bard's Tale). By 1993, over a million copies of the game had been sold.

Didn't know the numbers.. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I knew more about Wizardry than BT for example. Might have to do with the local gaming press back then..

I don't think it matters all that much how famous BT was in the late 80s - most people who would be nostalgic for that era are well into their 40s, if not 50s, and not actively gaming anymore. All the really successful nostalgia kickstarters appealed to late 90s. The 80s have-beens all either failed (Henkel, SSI), or got much smaller amounts (Neurath, Coles).
A Wizardry 10 kickstarter, on the other hand, could have worked since the franchise survived into early 2000s, and the Japs could also chip in. But there's no one to do it.

I'd say Coles appealed to the (early) 90s more than 80s. Quest for Glory 1 to 5 are from 89, 90, 92, 93 and 98 respectively. (and that's for PC version, various ports, still relevant back then, were 1~2 years younger). Note the last (admittedly also the worst one) game being from late 90s.

 

[deuxhero]

While making Wizards cast like Spirit Shaman/5E is OK, cutting the Sorcerer and Bard presents one serious issue: There is no charisma focused class. Cleric and Paladin have it as secondary, but it's not their primary (Wisdom and Strength respectively.). Paladin needing wisdom for spells makes this an even bigger issue unless they change them to Charisma based. With full party creation this means there isn't any reason to have one charismatic guys lead a bunch of guys with the lowest possible charisma.

 

[aweigh]

isn't linzi the bard basically tailor-made for the normie player to cover all charisma checks, since she's a bard?

 

[daveyd]

While making Wizards cast like Spirit Shaman/5E is OK, cutting the Sorcerer and Bard presents one serious issue: There is no charisma focused class. Cleric and Paladin have it as secondary, but it's not their primary (Wisdom and Strength respectively.). Paladin needing wisdom for spells makes this an even bigger issue unless they change them to Charisma based. With full party creation this means there isn't any reason to have one charismatic guys lead a bunch of guys with the lowest possible charisma.

Well, Bards have been hinted to be a likely stretch goal.

But either way, Paladin spells are practically useless anyway so I'd say it makes more sense to have them prioritize Cha even if it means only having ~12 Wisdom. Having decent Smite Evil, Turn Undead, etc. is way more useful than eventually gaining access to a few low level Cleric spells. Or you could not be a total min-maxer and create one character with high charisma just for roleplaying purposes.

Also I don't think they've shown character creation yet so it isn't really clear whether we'll have a certain number of points to distribute among attributes like NWN, "dice rolls", or a choice between the two like ToEE.

 

[deuxhero]

daveyd Paladin spells are indeed low on saves so they don't need much, but it's still holding them back from actually being able to focus on charisma. They also aren't that great a class in 3.5, especially when you can't multiclass.

 

[conan_edw]

Wanna back this but broke af

Maybe will wait for the codex fundraiser

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Bard's Tale was based on a blobber which is a very specific subgenre which definitely does not have so much of a following as isometric turn based CRPGs.
Plus the Bard's Tale franchise was not even THAT famous back in its day

Dunno about that. Quoting from Wikipedia (yeah, yeah...):

The Bard's Tale was very successful, becoming the best-selling computer RPG of the 1980s at 407,000 copies. It was the first non-Wizardry computer role-playing game to challenge the Ultima series' sales, especially to Commodore 64 users who could not play Wizardry (a Commodore version did not appear until 1987, with inferior graphics to that of The Bard's Tale). By 1993, over a million copies of the game had been sold.

Didn't know the numbers.. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I knew more about Wizardry than BT for example. Might have to do with the local gaming press back then..

I don't think it matters all that much how famous BT was in the late 80s - most people who would be nostalgic for that era are well into their 40s, if not 50s, and not actively gaming anymore. All the really successful nostalgia kickstarters appealed to late 90s. The 80s have-beens all either failed (Henkel, SSI), or got much smaller amounts (Neurath, Coles).
A Wizardry 10 kickstarter, on the other hand, could have worked since the franchise survived into early 2000s, and the Japs could also chip in. But there's no one to do it.

You are suggesting that in a decade Fallout would be as forgotten as Bards Tale is?

 

[Haba]

I will back this game after i get my next salary

That's November 17th, right?

 

[evdk]

You are suggesting that in a decade Fallout would be as forgotten as Bards Tale is?

Probably not forgotten, but solely remembered as a Bethesda franchise.

Bow to Todd.

 

[Themadcow]

Bard's Tale was based on a blobber which is a very specific subgenre which definitely does not have so much of a following as isometric turn based CRPGs.
Plus the Bard's Tale franchise was not even THAT famous back in its day

Yes, blobbers almost certainly don't have as much following as IE style games, but you're on crack if you think BT wasn't hugely popular in its day.

Unfortunately inXile took those sweet nostalgia dollars and made a bug ridden puzzle game with Hearthstone combat. Well, I say they made it - they spent the KS money on shitty dialogue and art redo's for TToN while farming BT4 out to a rookie studio helmed by an inexperienced mobile phone MMO FPS developer. We don't know the market for a big budget blobber because there hasn't been one for almost 20 years.

Probably also worth noting that 40+ dudes are the biggest growth category in non-mobile gaming and have the most disposable income.

 

[Lilura]

We don't know the market for a big budget blobber because there hasn't been one for almost 20 years.

There's a reason for that - it's because blobbers suck.

 

[ArchAngel]

Bard's Tale was based on a blobber which is a very specific subgenre which definitely does not have so much of a following as isometric turn based CRPGs.
Plus the Bard's Tale franchise was not even THAT famous back in its day

Yes, blobbers almost certainly don't have as much following as IE style games, but you're on crack if you think BT wasn't hugely popular in its day.

Unfortunately inXile took those sweet nostalgia dollars and made a bug ridden puzzle game with Hearthstone combat. Well, I say they made it - they spent the KS money on shitty dialogue and art redo's for TToN while farming BT4 out to a rookie studio helmed by an inexperienced mobile phone MMO FPS developer. We don't know the market for a big budget blobber because there hasn't been one for almost 20 years.

Probably also worth noting that 40+ dudes are the biggest growth category in non-mobile gaming and have the most disposable income.

Paradox already owns those 40+ dudes with their endless DLC scheme.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/ceresgames/realms-beyond-ashes-of-the-fallen/#chart-daily

Seems to be doing better than Encased did during first couple of days.

 

[Feyd Rautha]

From the looks of it, you can't even equip 2 rings

Should be able to equip at least three rings on each finger and don't forget about the toes

 

[Themadcow]

I'm always a bit confused about the psychology of the Early Bird tier. Surely anyone who really wants this game would pledge anyway, while the expiry of early bird availability would put off people who aren't 100% sure (because they'll feel they've overpaid).

Not sure how KS enforces this, but I'd be tempted to put a time limit on early bird (say 10 days of a 30 day campaign) or make it available up until a much higher % of the KS target. Having a limit of X number of backers seems pretty self-defeating.

 

[Jenkem]

I'm always a bit confused about the psychology of the Early Bird tier. Surely anyone who really wants this game would pledge anyway, while the expiry of early bird availability would put off people who aren't 100% sure (because they'll feel they've overpaid).

Not sure how KS enforces this, but I'd be tempted to put a time limit on early bird (say 10 days of a 30 day campaign) or make it available up until a much higher % of the KS target. Having a limit of X number of backers seems pretty self-defeating.

It's even dumber because if you are at all slightly interested in the title it makes sense to lock in an early bird pledge. If you decide you don't want to pledge you can just always just remove it. What's even more baffling is when you see an early bird pledge with X number available, and yet there are 5-10 pledges for the same tier, just not the early bird.

 

[Bohr]

I'm always a bit confused about the psychology of the Early Bird tier. Surely anyone who really wants this game would pledge anyway, while the expiry of early bird availability would put off people who aren't 100% sure (because they'll feel they've overpaid).

I think it's just aimed at getting the KS off to a quick start, as often these days if a KS hasn't made a significant % of its target in the first 48 hours people start to assume it'll fail. I guess the idea is to get the people who are on the fence or in a "I'll pledge later when I get paid" mode to jump in, for fear of missing out on the bargain price, and so making the overall KS seem like it's doing well and will succeed.

 

[Jimmious]

I'm always a bit confused about the psychology of the Early Bird tier. Surely anyone who really wants this game would pledge anyway, while the expiry of early bird availability would put off people who aren't 100% sure (because they'll feel they've overpaid).

I think it's just aimed at getting the KS off to a quick start, as often these days if a KS hasn't made a significant % of its target in the first 48 hours people start to assume it'll fail. I guess the idea is to get the people who are on the fence or in a "I'll pledge later when I get paid" mode to jump in, for fear of missing out on the bargain price, and so making the overall KS seem like it's doing well and will succeed.

Yeah that. I think the idea is to promote an early "surge" of pledges so that the KS will look active and going well in the first days which makes other people less hesitant to jump in

 

[Themadcow]

I think it's just aimed at getting the KS off to a quick start, as often these days if a KS hasn't made a significant % of its target in the first 48 hours people start to assume it'll fail. I guess the idea is to get the people who are on the fence or in a "I'll pledge later when I get paid" mode to jump in, for fear of missing out on the bargain price, and so making the overall KS seem like it's doing well and will succeed.

Yeah, fair enough - but the early bird tier was gone with less than 30% funding secured. That's still a helluva long way to go for a fairly obscure title, but I guess the KS maths says that 30% at this stage should carry you over the line or something.

 

[Bohr]

I think it's just aimed at getting the KS off to a quick start, as often these days if a KS hasn't made a significant % of its target in the first 48 hours people start to assume it'll fail. I guess the idea is to get the people who are on the fence or in a "I'll pledge later when I get paid" mode to jump in, for fear of missing out on the bargain price, and so making the overall KS seem like it's doing well and will succeed.

Yeah, fair enough - but the early bird tier was gone with less than 30% funding secured. That's still a helluva long way to go for a fairly obscure title, but I guess the KS maths says that 30% at this stage should carry you over the line or something.

Someone suggested they do what other campaigns have done, add a not-so-early bird tier for slightly more, but it seems Ceres are too oldschool for that

Indira Obsidian Apex Weresheepcat of Sinabout 15 hours ago
@Ceres Games: I know this is a bit cheesy, but it has been done in many kickstarters before. Since your Early Bird tier is already out, you can start up another,called Early Bird 2, same description, but at 23 dollars a piece or something, 500 more units. Just a suggestion, to keep the moment going.


Ceres GamesCreatorSuperbackerabout 15 hours ago
The Early Bird catches the worm...

We never heard about the second bird and worm, therefore we will stick to the original meaning of Early Bird.

 

[Infinitron]

David Walgrave from Larian:

 

[covr]

Why the fuck they have not posted any ks update thanking the backers? The campaign is running for more than 24 hours. They are aleady around 33%, not a bad pace for some unknown studio.

Fucking Germans, they always start with being ungreatful cocks and end with murdering the Jews.

 

[Haba]

Someone suggested they do what other campaigns have done, add a not-so-early bird tier for slightly more, but it seems Ceres are too oldschool for that

One does not simply tell a German that their process is flawed and that the plan should be changed in the middle of the project.

 

[ArchAngel]

Why the fuck they have not posted any ks update thanking the backers? The campaign is running for more than 24 hours. They are aleady around 33%, not a bad pace for some unknown studio.

Fucking Germans, they always start with being ungreatful cocks and end with murdering the Jews.

You simple don't understand how the German brain works. What needs to happen will happen at exactly the right minute and second.

 

[Serus]

Someone suggested they do what other campaigns have done, add a not-so-early bird tier for slightly more, but it seems Ceres are too oldschool for that

One does not simply tell a German that their process is flawed and that the plan should be changed in the middle of the project.

Unless one is the American Red Army.